Will he apologize? Or be reprimanded?

[pejp]

Hey guys, Kusha got a new computer and screen name

i presume that is aimed at me. You can believe me or not, I dont really care. I'm 27, I live in NYC and work for a hedge fund on a 3-5 year L1B work visa. I'm English (I'm from a place called Clapham which is South London), and the only reason i signed up for this forum is I'm coming to the Georgia game in October and wanted some advice. If you dont want to debate with me, thats fine. It doesnt matter to me. Obviously thats the Republican diversion tactic, if someone confronts you with the truth or with first hand knowledge simply accuse them of lying, right? As a proud English person I saw the opportunity to let people know the reality of the 'socialist' healthcare system from a first hand perspective as I'm getting very very sick of people that have never left their own country telling me about the 'reality' of public healthcare. I only signed up here for advice on my trip, i didnt even know this place had a political forum. If you are going to the Georgia game, look for the car with 5 English guys getting wasted and you can meet me yourself.

 

[Headed For Home]

i presume that is aimed at me. You can believe me or not, I dont really care. I'm 27, I live in NYC and work for a hedge fund on a 3-5 year L1B work visa. I'm English (I'm from a place called Clapham which is South London), and the only reason i signed up for this forum is I'm coming to the Georgia game in October and wanted some advice. If you dont want to debate with me, thats fine. It doesnt matter to me. Obviously thats the Republican diversion tactic, if someone confronts you with the truth or with first hand knowledge simply accuse them of lying, right? As a proud English person I saw the opportunity to let people know the reality of the 'socialist' healthcare system from a first hand perspective as I'm getting very very sick of people that have never left their own country telling me about the 'reality' of public healthcare. I only signed up here for advice on my trip, i didnt even know this place had a political forum. If you are going to the Georgia game, look for the car with 5 English guys getting wasted and you can meet me yourself.

If you want to be found, you had better put up a sign or a flag or something. There will be a lot of folks there getting wasted.

 

[T-TownVol]

i presume that is aimed at me. You can believe me or not, I dont really care. I'm 27, I live in NYC and work for a hedge fund on a 3-5 year L1B work visa. I'm English (I'm from a place called Clapham which is South London), and the only reason i signed up for this forum is I'm coming to the Georgia game in October and wanted some advice. If you dont want to debate with me, thats fine. It doesnt matter to me. Obviously thats the Republican diversion tactic, if someone confronts you with the truth or with first hand knowledge simply accuse them of lying, right? As a proud English person I saw the opportunity to let people know the reality of the 'socialist' healthcare system from a first hand perspective as I'm getting very very sick of people that have never left their own country telling me about the 'reality' of public healthcare. I only signed up here for advice on my trip, i didnt even know this place had a political forum. If you are going to the Georgia game, look for the car with 5 English guys getting wasted and you can meet me yourself.

I did not accuse you of squat. It is a forum joke about another poster that is in England.
I am quite sure that no one on this site has ever "told" you anything about your healthcare.
Enjoy your Neyland experience and watch out for the TN State Troopers in your car full of drunks.

 

[BigPapaVol]

I'm English and live in the US. I cant vote obviously, but if I could I'd definitely be a democrat. Not trying to start an argument here, just saying that I am fully in favour of some kind of social healthcare system. Like it or not, most other western countries have lower infant mortality rates and higher life expectancies than the US and they all have 'socialist' healthcare. I was born in the UK and lived there until I was 25 (I'm 27 now) and I've never wanted for healthcare. For my whole life I had private healthcare due to my Dad's job, and then my job. However most of my family use the NHS and have had amazing care. My uncle recently had a triple heart bypass and is currently making a good recovery. I was born in an NHS hospital and was born not breathing and my mother lost half the blood in her body, so you could say i owe my life to the NHS. When I was in a car crash I was picked up by an NHS ambulance, taken to an NHS hospital. It kind of upsets me to hear so many Americans who confidently say that the UK has a terrible healthcare system, or to hear Fox news spread complete and utter lies about our healthcare when they havent experienced our system. Not wishing to sound confrontational, but most Americans simply have no idea about other healthcare systems so its very annoying to hear people with such strong views on the healthcare standards in other countries. I guess we just have different outlooks on it and I'm not expecting everyone to simply accept a new form of healthcare without question, but I'd prefer if the debate didnt have to involve badmouthing my country, and also countries such as France which actually has one of the best healthcare systems in the world. I guess it just comes down to a fundamental difference in outlook. I had employer provided private healthcare, but I also didnt mind my taxes going towards a healthcare for all. The simple truth is that we see healthcare as a right, and you do not. I guess its going to be hard to ever come to a conclusion.

Anyway, I came here to make the point that even as a so called 'liberal', I think the huge fuss being made over Wilson is completely disproportionate to the offence. OK, he shouldnt have said it, but its hardly the worst thing in the world. He simply let the moment get the better of him. I'd prefer it if it were more like Parliament with everyone yelling insults and jeering eachother! I really hope this blows over quickly as I think stupid events like this distract from the real debate.

what you just described for us was essentially emergency care and little else. I'm glad you're proud of your system and want you to go back there and enjoy it.

As to infant mortality and life expectancy, if you're too senseless to understand that lifestyle choices are an enormous part of those worthless statistics (save life insurance underwriting), then you should simply avoid any public debate.

If anyone in the world wants cutting edge medicine, they aren't heading to London for the care, period.

 

[lawgator1]

i don't remember LG or anyone else calling for Harry Reid to apologize to Bush for the remarks he made. if i'm not mistaken, which i'm not on this since it was re-played on a radio talk show 2 days ago, Reid called Bush a liar and a loser on multiple times. In fact they asked Reid if he would apologize, and he said "I am who I am, and I said what I said, and I'm not going to apologize". Bush was booed during one of his speeches to congress, I didn't see outrage from that. MSNBC use to say Bush was a chimp, where was the outrage from that? Funny how its ok for one side, but not the other.

And I don't remember anyone shouting out "You lie!" at Bush as he addressed the Congress. Context has something to do with this.

Having said that, I don't think he should have to apologize again. He already did once and Obama accepted it. To me, case closed.

 

[droski]

. The simple truth is that we see healthcare as a right, and you do not..

the simple truth is your country has been in the crapper for 50 years and this one has flourished. and don't tell me the two things aren't related. the english have become soft and now look to the gov't for their solutions rather than themselves. churchill is rolling over in his grave.

 

[pejp]

the simple truth is your country has been in the crapper for 50 years and this one has flourished. and don't tell me the two things aren't related. the english have become soft and now look to the gov't for their solutions rather than themselves. churchill is rolling over in his grave.

wow, I really love intelligent debate.

Care to back that up with anything other than "YEAH USA RULES, WOOOH!!!" :rock:

In what way is the UK 'in the crapper'. Also, please tell me where you get your information from....it wouldnt be TV news would it? Heaven forbid you should actually experience something for yourselves right?

For the record, I love the US so lets not turn it into an 'us vs them' because its pointless.

 

[Oldvol75]

Droski, pejp's not British! I read everything thing hes posted and not once has he said "pip-pip or cherio"!

 

[pejp]

Droski, pejp's not British! I read everything thing hes posted and not once has he said "pip-pip or cherio"!

Damn! I've been found out!!

You know its funny, because since I've lived here I've had so many people say that to me. "Hey, how come you dont say 'Cheerio'?" or "Is it true you guys drink warm beer?". Its pretty bizarre the number of myths or things from the past that people bring up to me. I like it though, 99% of the time its in good spirit.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Damn! I've been found out!!

You know its funny, because since I've lived here I've had so many people say that to me. "Hey, how come you dont say 'Cheerio'?" or "Is it true you guys drink warm beer?". Its pretty bizarre the number of myths or things from the past that people bring up to me. I like it though, 99% of the time its in good spirit.

what's with all the freaking crooked teeth? or is that just another myth? Maybe it's only those on the tellie who have summer teeth.

Can you imagine the British version of that emoticon that you just posted?

 

[pejp]

what's with all the freaking crooked teeth? or is that just another myth? Maybe it's only those on the tellie who have summer teeth.

Can you imagine the British version of that emoticon that you just posted?

Well, I have fairly nice teeth and so do my family...but my girlfriend who is American has ridiculously white and perfect teeth, as do all her family. It's like they were Gods design for teeth! I dont know, I guess people here just care about it a lot more. Similar to the amount of people here that have plastic surgery I guess...

 

[BigPapaVol]

Well, I have fairly nice teeth and so do my family...but my girlfriend who is American has ridiculously white and perfect teeth, as do all her family. It's like they were Gods design for teeth! I dont know, I guess people here just care about it a lot more. Similar to the amount of people here that have plastic surgery I guess...

I only know a couple of folks who have had plastic surgery (or would admit it), but most have been to the orthodontist. Do they just not exist in Europe? Teeth there are disastrously bad.

I have to assume you like your girlfriend's straight teeth. Imagine her doing her duty with some of the jagged crap I saw all over Europe. You'd probably just defer and crank up the porn cruiser.

 

[pejp]

what you just described for us was essentially emergency care and little else. I'm glad you're proud of your system and want you to go back there and enjoy it.

As to infant mortality and life expectancy, if you're too senseless to understand that lifestyle choices are an enormous part of those worthless statistics (save life insurance underwriting), then you should simply avoid any public debate.

If anyone in the world wants cutting edge medicine, they aren't heading to London for the care, period.

OK, my experience has been mainly with emergency care....but then you conveniently ignored the obvious implication of that fact that I've only ever really used it for emergency care.....I have always had private coverage!! Yep, despite what everyone on the right may tell you..we have two systems running side by side. Private for those that can afford it or whose employer provides it...and public for those that cannot afford it or whose emplyer does not provide it. The only difference is that employer provided private healthcare isnt a standard part of an employment package like it is here. You need to have a fairly decent job. i.e. none of my friends have private healthcare as they all have fairly average jobs, but any professional person is likely to have private healthcare.

But no, your right. Depsite spending 25 years of my life in the UK, with almost everyone I know using the NHS, you know best. What do you want, shall I list every example of non-essential care that I've ever experienced just to prove to you that I'm not just making it up?

OK, I know statistics can say an awful lot but can also mask a lot of truths...however, are you saying that we dont have alcoholics, fat people, drug addicts etc in Europe? We have more than our fair share of unhealthy lifestyles here. This is an argument I've heard a lot and I'm yet to hear an answer. I dont get what is so different about the US that they cannot have a decent public health system, yet virtually every other western country can. In the UK I paid roughly the same amount of tax as I do here now in the US (actually, due to NY City tax I pay slightly more tax here), yet I'm missing a massive public service...where does that money go?

As for the last part, we have plenty or world renowned hospitals and medical facilities in London. Kings College near where I'm from runs the largest liver transplant facility in Europe and covers more liver problems than any hospital in the world. Great Ormond Street was the first hospital in the world primarily dedicated to the field of childrens medicine and continues to be a pioneer in that field. So in fact plenty of people in Europe come to London for cutting edge medicine. Now, I'm not saying that you dont have these things in the US because clearly you do, but the idea that the US is the only country that has specialist and cutting edge medicine is absurd. Is your statement based on any actual fact, or simply your assumption that nowhere else on earth could possibly be as advanced as the US? Also, I know this may be hard to grasp..but putting 'period' at the end of a statement doesnt win the debate or connote any kind of authority...you are aware of that right?

In fact, do me a favour. Give me your first hand experience of UK or European healthcare systems and how they have compared to your experience in the US.

 

[droski]

wow, I really love intelligent debate.

Care to back that up with anything other than "YEAH USA RULES, WOOOH!!!" :rock:

In what way is the UK 'in the crapper'. Also, please tell me where you get your information from....it wouldnt be TV news would it? Heaven forbid you should actually experience something for yourselves right?

For the record, I love the US so lets not turn it into an 'us vs them' because its pointless.

a simple look at gdp growth, income growth, and the unemployment rate of the two countries over the past 50 years tells you all you need to know. socialism has ruined what once was the greatest country on earth.

 

[pejp]

I only know a couple of folks who have had plastic surgery (or would admit it), but most have been to the orthodontist. Do they just not exist in Europe? Teeth there are disastrously bad.

I have to assume you like your girlfriend's straight teeth. Imagine her doing her duty with some of the jagged crap I saw all over Europe. You'd probably just defer and crank up the porn cruiser.

Yeah, we tend to spend our time and energy on not having a population where 73% of us are overweight or obese. Man, the first time I visited the US I was simply overwhelmed by the number of fat people here...the attention to portion control here really must be 'disastrously bad'.

 

[BigPapaVol]

OK, my experience has been mainly with emergency care....but then you conveniently ignored the obvious implication of that fact that I've only ever really used it for emergency care.....I have always had private coverage!! Yep, despite what everyone on the right may tell you..we have two systems running side by side. Private for those that can afford it or whose employer provides it...and public for those that cannot afford it or whose emplyer does not provide it. The only difference is that employer provided private healthcare isnt a standard part of an employment package like it is here. You need to have a fairly decent job. i.e. none of my friends have private healthcare as they all have fairly average jobs, but any professional person is likely to have private healthcare.

But no, your right. Depsite spending 25 years of my life in the UK, with almost everyone I know using the NHS, you know best. What do you want, shall I list every example of non-essential care that I've ever experienced just to prove to you that I'm not just making it up?

OK, I know statistics can say an awful lot but can also mask a lot of truths...however, are you saying that we dont have alcoholics, fat people, drug addicts etc in Europe? We have more than our fair share of unhealthy lifestyles here. This is an argument I've heard a lot and I'm yet to hear an answer. I dont get what is so different about the US that they cannot have a decent public health system, yet virtually every other western country can. In the UK I paid roughly the same amount of tax as I do here now in the US (actually, due to NY City tax I pay slightly more tax here), yet I'm missing a massive public service...where does that money go?

As for the last part, we have plenty or world renowned hospitals and medical facilities in London. Kings College near where I'm from runs the largest liver transplant facility in Europe and covers more liver problems than any hospital in the world. Great Ormond Street was the first hospital in the world primarily dedicated to the field of childrens medicine and continues to be a pioneer in that field. So in fact plenty of people in Europe come to London for cutting edge medicine. Now, I'm not saying that you dont have these things in the US because clearly you do, but the idea that the US is the only country that has specialist and cutting edge medicine is absurd. Is your statement based on any actual fact, or simply your assumption that nowhere else on earth could possibly be as advanced as the US? Also, I know this may be hard to grasp..but putting 'period' at the end of a statement doesnt win the debate or connote any kind of authority...you are aware of that right?

In fact, do me a favour. Give me your first hand experience of UK or European healthcare systems and how they have compared to your experience in the US.

I know you're little Eurosocialist heart can't stand that the medical research money poured into the US dwarfs the rest of the world by zillions, but we'll leave that be. People are itching to go to Europe for care. Americans are lined up in droves to do so.

It the NHS is so solid, why the ghost system for the wealthy? Oops, that doesn't really fit your argument, now does it?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Yeah, we tend to spend our time and energy on not having a population where 73% of us are overweight or obese. Man, the first time I visited the US I was simply overwhelmed by the number of fat people here...the attention to portion control here really must be 'disastrously bad'.

but weren't you just arguing that lifestyle isn't a part of the problem? Which is it, or does it depend on which side of your socialist medical system you're arguing for, the private or the public?

 

[droski]

Yeah, we tend to spend our time and energy on not having a population where 73% of us are overweight or obese. Man, the first time I visited the US I was simply overwhelmed by the number of fat people here...the attention to portion control here really must be 'disastrously bad'.

you obviously haven't been out of london if you are trying to throw out that card. the UK has some of the ugliest people in the world.

 

[BigPapaVol]

you obviously haven't been out of london if you are trying to throw out that card. the UK has some of the ugliest people in the world.

and it really isn't close. Ugliest western nation in the world.

 

[pejp]

I know you're little Eurosocialist heart can't stand that the medical research money poured into the US dwarfs the rest of the world by zillions, but we'll leave that be. People are itching to go to Europe for care. Americans are lined up in droves to do so.

It the NHS is so solid, why the ghost system for the wealthy? Oops, that doesn't really fit your argument, now does it?

Yes, thats true. The amount of money spent on research here is phenomenal. That is a point that I dont think anyone can argue.

Nope, I dont see Americans in their droves flooding to the UK for healthcare...but neither do I see Europeans going to the US for healthcare en masse.

Where did I say that the NHS was perfect? Given the choice I'd rather go private as the care may not necessarily be better, but it is usually quicker. However, it is an option for all. As Europeans, we simply see the idea of someone being bankrupted by healthcare costs as absolutely abhorrent. I dont think anyone is claiming that public healthcare can hope to provide a service as good as private, but the point is that the option is there for people that cannot afford it. Both systems are able to exist. It isnt a 'ghost' system as you so eloquently put it, its a fully private industry. I go private in the UK just like I do here, but if I lost my job at home I'd still be able to get healthcare if I were hit by a truck...over here I'd get the care but unless I had pretty huge savings or could afford private healthcare from an insurance industry which has pretty much free reign to do what it wants, I'd be bankrupt.

I dont get why you keep calling me 'socialist'. I work for a hedge fund and have worked in investment banks all my career before that. I fully believe in a capitalist system, but for something as important as healthcare we at the very least need some controls on the industry to ensure it is available to all.

 

[pejp]

you obviously haven't been out of london if you are trying to throw out that card. the UK has some of the ugliest people in the world.

and it really isn't close. Ugliest western nation in the world.

This is a real hive of intellectual debate isnt it!! Man, UT must be an awesome college to produce such skilled debaters.

 

[droski]

This is a real hive of intellectual debate isnt it!! Man, UT must be an awesome college to produce such skilled debaters.

yes because bringing out the fat card is rule #1 in lincoln vs douglas.

 

[droski]

I dont get why you keep calling me 'socialist'. I work for a hedge fund and have worked in investment banks all my career before that. I fully believe in a capitalist system, but for something as important as healthcare we at the very least need some controls on the industry to ensure it is available to all.

there are many idiots working for hedge funds and investment banks who believe in socialism. it's pretty sad they don't realize that the system that is paying for their overinflated paychecks isn't in line with their new york liberal views of hand holding. and btw why do you keep mentioning you work for a hedge fund? are we supposed to be impressed by that or something? do you assume we are pumping gas?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Yes, thats true. The amount of money spent on research here is phenomenal. That is a point that I dont think anyone can argue.

Nope, I dont see Americans in their droves flooding to the UK for healthcare...but neither do I see Europeans going to the US for healthcare en masse.

Where did I say that the NHS was perfect? Given the choice I'd rather go private as the care may not necessarily be better, but it is usually quicker. However, it is an option for all. As Europeans, we simply see the idea of someone being bankrupted by healthcare costs as absolutely abhorrent. I dont think anyone is claiming that public healthcare can hope to provide a service as good as private, but the point is that the option is there for people that cannot afford it. Both systems are able to exist. It isnt a 'ghost' system as you so eloquently put it, its a fully private industry. I go private in the UK just like I do here, but if I lost my job at home I'd still be able to get healthcare if I were hit by a truck...over here I'd get the care but unless I had pretty huge savings or could afford private healthcare from an insurance industry which has pretty much free reign to do what it wants, I'd be bankrupt.

I dont get why you keep calling me 'socialist'. I work for a hedge fund and have worked in investment banks all my career before that. I fully believe in a capitalist system, but for something as important as healthcare we at the very least need some controls on the industry to ensure it is available to all.

do you really think you wouldn't get care in America if you were jobless and hit by a truck?

Do you really believe it shouldn't cost anything if you are? The rest of the taxpayers should foot that bill, even though footing it will provide lesser care than the private system, even at your own admission? That's senseless.

Your bankrupt piece implies that someone else should foot the bill for your health and it's absolutely pathetic. That's the reason the GDP charts of the two nations look absurd in comparison.

Taking the government and its regulation from the industry is the only way that we will ever get back to the system whereby the deliverer interacts directly with the payor. When we get back to that, the open markets will set pricing appropriately. Allowing medicare into the public system has destroyed it, from a pricing perspective.

 

[pejp]

yes because bringing out the fat card is rule #1 in lincoln vs douglas.

hey, I was just responding to the teeth comment. I love Americans.

do people on this forum usually get so angry and personal when someone has the audacity to disagree with them?