Prince out 3 to 4 weeks

#51
#51
Bryan1 said:
and just exactly what rule did the refs not know?
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I still don't think they applied THAT rule correctly. I will have to look at the reply to see, as stated above in the thread, the ENTIRE ball was out of the end zone.
 
#53
#53
Bruleif said:
I would think the helmet-to-helmet rule would apply in ALL cases, being a safety issue.
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No. It only applies to pass-catching because you can't defend yourself. If helmet to helmet was called on all kinds of tackles a RB could tack on 15 yards to every run by just trying to create contact between helmets.

It's impossible to expect defenders to avoid helmet to helmet when ball-carriers juke, dip, spin, stiff-arm, leap, dive, etc.
 
#54
#54
Bruleif said:
I still don't think they applied THAT rule correctly. I will have to look at the reply to see, as stated above in the thread, the ENTIRE ball was out of the end zone.
Click to expand...

no, what was stated is the the entire ball was NOT out of the end zone, only the tip meaning it was a saftey
they got the call 100% correct
 
#56
#56
FYI, it was an SEC officiating crew. UT got plenty of favorable "breaks" during the game. We got beat by Crompton, again.
 
#57
#57
VolBadger said:
i'm fairly certain u treat it as a "touchdown" for the defense, if any part of the ball is in the endzone it's a safety...i'm pretty confident about this, though i'm not 100% sure that's how it goes



idk where u get the idea that this is a problem throughout college football fan bases across the nation...idk if i've ever met anyone who thinks this



i don't think u, or ur coach for that matter, realize how much better the safety was for u in that situation...what he should have done is run right up the middle and try to get across the goaline on 3rd, then take the safety on fourth down...ut had to score a TD to win in either situation...if they do this then they can take more time off the clock AND put us in worse field position...if they were sec officials then they were trying to help u if anything :dry:

i have applauded the way ucla fans have handled the win despite the constant belittling of their team and conference...it has been a good change of pace from sec foes

but u sir do not know football...this thread is quite unnecessary

enjoy the win and good luck to u guys the rest of the season...hope ur QB makes a full recovery
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1. See my posting on the timing of the safety. It is only in the timing of the safety that UT benefitted, not in the safety itself. We agree on that.

2. The problem I see a lot is the conception that the ball should be spotted where the knee hits. It has been my understanding that the ball should be spotted where THE BALL IS when the knee hits. Am I wrong? I do not have a copy of the NCAA football rules.
 
#58
#58
Bruleif said:
I still don't think they applied THAT rule correctly. I will have to look at the reply to see, as stated above in the thread, the ENTIRE ball was out of the end zone.
Click to expand...

You must have been watching a different play than I was then, cause from the line judges angle you could plainly see that the ENTIRE ball never came out of the endzone!
 
#59
#59
Bruleif said:
2. The problem I see a lot is the conception that the ball should be spotted where the knee hits. It has been my understanding that the ball should be spotted where THE BALL IS when the knee hits. Am I wrong? I do not have a copy of the NCAA football rules.
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you are correct but the ball was not completely out of the endzone. Safety was the correct call and the officials got it right. Still a dumb playcall by CRN
 
#60
#60
GoVols2003 said:
Toughing it out? All he did after that was take one knee.
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The point is he went back in the game and he would have run regular plays had UCLA needed to because the UCLA trainers did not know until x-rays were taken in L.A. that he had a broken jaw.

You don't think that's tough? If not your standards for tough must be pretty high.
 
#61
#61
nbakerld said:
No. It only applies to pass-catching because you can't defend yourself. If helmet to helmet was called on all kinds of tackles a RB could tack on 15 yards to every run by just trying to create contact between helmets.

It's impossible to expect defenders to avoid helmet to helmet when ball-carriers juke, dip, spin, stiff-arm, leap, dive, etc.
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sorry baker, but you have this one wrong
any time the defender leads with the head gear and the first contact is to the opponents helmet, it is a penalty

that being said. Rogan came UP at Prince and the first contact was actually at the shoulder pads and up into the chin...NOT a helmet to helmet blow
 
#62
#62
Bruleif said:
I don't know what you are smoking but his knee hit and the ball crossing the plane of the end zone were simultaneous.n
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I just watched the replay over and over. there was no helmet to helmet, the helmet hit in the upper part of the chest with the back of it breaking prince's jaw. And if you watch the slowed down version, his knee hits just before the ball hits the ground. But whatever you still won, congrats, good luck with your second string qb cause prince aint gonna get any protien while his jaw is wired shut. Hey, you guys made us use our second stringer too so we are even.
 
#64
#64
utvolpj said:
you are correct but the ball was not completely out of the endzone. Safety was the correct call and the officials got it right. Still a dumb playcall by CRN
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Blackledge and Nessler both called the call for a rollout as a curious one. And now it has cost us our only decent QB for 3-4 weeks.
 
#65
#65
Bruleif said:
1. See my posting on the timing of the safety. It is only in the timing of the safety that UT benefitted, not in the safety itself. We agree on that.

2. The problem I see a lot is the conception that the ball should be spotted where the knee hits. It has been my understanding that the ball should be spotted where THE BALL IS when the knee hits. Am I wrong? I do not have a copy of the NCAA football rules.
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That is 100% correct.
 
#67
#67
You should know the rules, before questioning the officials...

SECTION 5. Safety
How Scored—ARTICLE 1
Approved Ruling 8-5-1
I. A10, after receiving the snap in his own end zone, is downed with
the ball resting on his goal line, its forward point being in the field of
play. RULING: Safety. A part of the dead ball is on the ball carrier’s
goal line.
 
#68
#68
utvolpj said:
you are correct but the ball was not completely out of the endzone. Safety was the correct call and the officials got it right. Still a dumb playcall by CRN
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I thought the play call was ok. He rolled out his QB, with 2 options.

1. TE coming across the middle
and if he was not just completely open
2. Tuck it, they were gonna take the saftey on 4th down anyway.

I wouldn't have punted from the 1. The saftey meant nothing to us points wise.
 
#69
#69
Bruleif said:
He apparently suffered a broken jaw from that helmet-to-helmet hit (which the refs did not call) in the end zone when the refs called a safety that was not a safety. If you do not believe there was a helmet-to-helmet hit, look at the replay.

Why is it that both the refs and the broadcasters did not know the rule on a safety? The rule is this, as I understand it: if ANY part of the ball pierces the plane defined by the edge of the goal line NEXT to the end zone, that is the edge going out of the end zone, then there is NO safety.

And, as so many people get wrong, spotting the ball in football should not be based on where the knee touches the ground but rather on WHERE THE BALL IS WHEN THE KNEE TOUCHES THE GROUND.

Were the officials an SEC crew?

Kudos to Prince for toughing it out.
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Erronneous on both accounts! First, the entire ball has to break the plain of the goal line for it NOT to be a Safety. A TD only has to break the goal line with any part of the ball.

Kudos, to Prince by "toughing it out." I guess you are referring to him being able to get off the field under his own manpower after the hit?

Anyway, it was not helmet to helmet. It was helmet to chest contact and the helmet ended up slipping upward and hitting him in the mouth. Cry all you want about it, but that was a legal hit and a safety.

It just sickens me to lose to a physically inferior opponent because of our inept QB. You are welcome again this year.
 
#71
#71
PPPpartsp3 said:
You should know the rules, before questioning the officials...

SECTION 5. Safety
How Scored—ARTICLE 1
Approved Ruling 8-5-1
I. A10, after receiving the snap in his own end zone, is downed with
the ball resting on his goal line, its forward point being in the field of
play. RULING: Safety. A part of the dead ball is on the ball carrier’s
goal line.
Click to expand...

Ok, I stand corrected. I had always heard that any part of the ball touching the goal line meant it was NOT a safety. My bad.
 
#72
#72
CanadianVol said:
They looked at the call and came to their opinion that it was a saftey. It's the point the ball is at when his KNEE hits, not when he's lying on his a** bleeding from the mouth.

Personally I rather they would have said he got out. I'd rather you guys be punting from the back of your endzone then us having the ball at the 40. However, it didn't work that way.

Now go away.
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Look up putz in your dictionnary, jerkwad.
 
#73
#73
T-TownVol said:
no sir, in college the knee touching the ground marks the spot, NOT the ball
think about it...you could reach the ball a good three yards out after the knee is down
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wrong... its where the ball is once, the knee, or elbow, back, etc touch the ground. you can be tackled with your knee on the goal line in your own endzone, but if you reach the ball out while being tackled to the 1 yard line, thats where they will spot the ball.
 
#74
#74
Bruleif said:
1. See my posting on the timing of the safety. It is only in the timing of the safety that UT benefitted, not in the safety itself. We agree on that.

2. The problem I see a lot is the conception that the ball should be spotted where the knee hits. It has been my understanding that the ball should be spotted where THE BALL IS when the knee hits. Am I wrong? I do not have a copy of the NCAA football rules.
Click to expand...

1. Again, why did ur coach call a roll out on the inch line? Bad play call on goaline, and yes it was a saftey...that's what caused the safety on third down, not the refs blowing the call...the ball has to cross the goaline completely on a safety, bc u treat it like a TD for the defense



2. Ya, that's right, i'm not arguing that at all actually...the point i'm making has to do with what i have in bold:

And, as so many people get wrong, spotting the ball in football should not be based on where the knee touches the ground but rather on WHERE THE BALL IS WHEN THE KNEE TOUCHES THE GROUND.
Click to expand...

...i'm arguing ur assumption that people do not realize this is a rule...i think this is one of the first things people learn as a fan of football...if the majority of the fans know it's a rule i'd assume the refs do as well

therefore that was a safety...his knee hit the ground and at that point in time the ball had not completely crossed the goaline, which it must do in order to not count as a safety
 
#75
#75
I'll give credit to the qb for being a tough player. He took a beating and still kept coming back. I'm afraid though that USC may hit him harder and more often than UT did.
 
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