The Kim Caldwell System

#652
#652
Volfan2012 said:
Kim again proved her system will work against any team without strong guard play and especially point guard. Still need to see them take out a strong point guard and plenty of chances coming in the next couple of weeks.
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They still haven't done it and is the reason we lost McMahon played point 39 points and the A&M point guard 22 points and 10 assists. If you can't stop the point guard your chances of winning are less than 50 percent. Chavez coming up.
 
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#653
#653
Volfan2012 said:
I think any successful team she would have would have to be guard oriented and well above average three point shooters. They still need to be athletic and have a high learning IQ to be able to know when to press and when to drop back. It also would be players that have the ability to stay in from of an offensive player not guard to the side like we do so much. I doubt those Glenville teams even had a post player probably five guards. She didn't need a post there probably didn't need much of an inside game just line up five out shooters and play.
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I looked at the data on this. May be in this thread but I don't have it in front of me. From memory, first Glenville team took 3s for about 50% of its shots. That dropped down to about 40% over the years. However, her teams were never exceptional at shooting 3s -- about 32% give or take a point or so. I do think they generated significantly more shot opportunities than their opponents.
 
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#655
#655
Volfan2012 said:


Glenville look at the size of the players for Kim in this season.
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What I notice looking at this is the movement on offense. Same five-out set that we see with the Lady Vols, but multiple players moving simultaneously, players clearing space for others to drive, etc. Players cutting and assists being made. Multiple players are in motion much of the time. I hardly ever see this with this team. Someone who is a better basketball analyst than me can perhaps say more, but to me this seems to back up what Kim has been saying. She clearly knows how to coach that offense, but the results on the floor look very little like what is in this video.

As I think about it, I didn't pay attention to whether the other team was running zone or man defense. I can't imagine she didn't face both at Glenville, at Marshall, and last year. Don't even really know if zone defenses have particularly killed us this year.

Oh, and one other thing. I know this was highlights, but her players were finishing when they drove. I think we've got players who will get there -- Deniya and Jaida in particular -- but right now, Talaysia is the only reliable finisher. Mia's results would look better if the fouls when she gets bodied by bigger girls got called (no data, and that may be confirmation bias!).
 
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#656
#656
RetroVol said:
What I notice looking at this is the movement on offense. Same five-out set that we see with the Lady Vols, but multiple players moving simultaneously, players clearing space for others to drive, etc. Players cutting and assists being made. Multiple players are in motion much of the time. I hardly ever see this with this team. Someone who is a better basketball analyst than me can perhaps say more, but to me this seems to back up what Kim has been saying. She clearly knows how to coach that offense, but the results on the floor look very little like what is in this video.

As I think about it, I didn't pay attention to whether the other team was running zone or man defense. I can't imagine she didn't face both at Glenville, at Marshall, and last year. Don't even really know if zone defenses have particularly killed us this year.

Oh, and one other thing. I know this was highlights, but her players were finishing when they drove. I think we've got players who will get there -- Deniya and Jaida in particular -- but right now, Talaysia is the only reliable finisher. Mia's results would look better if the fouls when she gets bodied by bigger girls got called (no data, and that may be confirmation bias!).
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I have always said it is not all coaching it is player execution. That is why she will be back next season with a lot of new players and almost only the freshmen on this one. That season will be everything for her to prove she can have success here.
 
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#658
#658
RetroVol said:
What I notice looking at this is the movement on offense. Same five-out set that we see with the Lady Vols, but multiple players moving simultaneously, players clearing space for others to drive, etc. Players cutting and assists being made. Multiple players are in motion much of the time. I hardly ever see this with this team. Someone who is a better basketball analyst than me can perhaps say more, but to me this seems to back up what Kim has been saying. She clearly knows how to coach that offense, but the results on the floor look very little like what is in this video.

As I think about it, I didn't pay attention to whether the other team was running zone or man defense. I can't imagine she didn't face both at Glenville, at Marshall, and last year. Don't even really know if zone defenses have particularly killed us this year.

Oh, and one other thing. I know this was highlights, but her players were finishing when they drove. I think we've got players who will get there -- Deniya and Jaida in particular -- but right now, Talaysia is the only reliable finisher. Mia's results would look better if the fouls when she gets bodied by bigger girls got called (no data, and that may be confirmation bias!).
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Other team played totally man to man
 
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#662
#662
RetroVol said:
Off the bench, again without losses or gains through the portal and not counting additional recruits:

Mya
Kaniya
[Latham or Prawl]
Gabby Minus
Lauren Hurst (needs to work on agility, shot, and aggressiveness)

Portal/spring recruiting has to fill any spots where we lose some who could stay and hopefully improve options in a couple of spots.
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To add, based on WBBlog there will be 7 spots opening not including those that could after this season. That's enough to get to more talented pieces and glue level players. We definitely need to address our shooting. Like Ryan Sylvia said last year's Lady Vols team would have beaten our current Lady Vols team by 20 because of our shooting. We need PURE SHOOTERS & QUICK TRIGGER SHOOTERS that can keep up on both ends. We also need TOUGH AS NAILS GLUE LEVEL BIGS. For example the Pashen Thompson, Nicky Anoski types that can just simply know their role as a big. Give us solid minutes, rim protect, rebound on command & authority and most importantly NO MORE LAZY BIGS. We need bigs just as much shooters because Oliviyah is on the way and she will attract double and triple teams in her Freshman year. We can't just assume because she's across between a 4/3 position player she'll play way out of it way. She's a freshman , she will make her mistakes which I'm hoping we keep Latham and get a few more tough minded bigs that can take on the task of playing gritty SEC without any days off.
 
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#664
#664
Jax_Vol said:
Nolan Richardson had great success with his "40 minutes of hell' system.

Coach K just has to get twelve nasty players to create max havoc
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Go to Google homeAI Overview



"40 Minutes of Hell," the high-tempo, full-court pressing style made famous by Nolan Richardson at Arkansas in the 1990s, fell out of favor due to
changes in officiating, improved player skill sets, and the extreme difficulty of maintaining such a physically demanding system without superior athleticism.
WikipediaWikipedia +1
The system relied on overwhelming opponents through intense pressure, depth, and constant speed, resulting in immense success—including the 1994 national championship—before fading as the game evolved.
Southeastern ConferenceSoutheastern Conference +4
Here are the primary reasons "40 Minutes of Hell" fell out of favor:
  • Changes in Officiating and Rules: The style heavily relied on physical, aggressive defense to force turnovers. As referee points of emphasis changed, particularly concerning hand-checking and freedom of movement, playing that style without fouling became much harder.
  • Improved Ball Handling and Basketball IQ: Modern college basketball players are more skilled at handling pressure, breaking full-court presses, and playing against zone traps than in previous decades.
  • Extreme Conditioning and Depth Requirements: The system requires intense conditioning and "buy-in" from at least 8-9 players to keep the pressure fresh. If a team lacks the depth or superior athleticism to maintain that pace, the pressure breaks down, and the team allows easy baskets.
  • Counter-Strategies: Opponents learned to break the press, slow down the game (taking the air out of the ball), and utilize the full shot clock to neutralize the frantic pace.
  • High Risk of Failure: If the press fails to create turnovers, it often results in giving up easy layups on the other end.
  • Nolan Richardson's Departure: The system was highly personalized to Richardson. Following his departure from Arkansas in 2002, the program moved away from the style. While Mike Anderson (a former assistant to Richardson) continued the style at UAB and later Arkansas, it didn't achieve the same consistent top-tier national dominance, leading to the perception that the style had become less effective over time.
    The Players' TribuneThe Players' Tribune +4
While some coaches still use elements of the press, the pure "40 Minutes of Hell" style became difficult to maintain at a championship level in the modern era.
RedditReddit
 
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#665
#665
Jax_Vol said:
Nolan Richardson had great success with his "40 minutes of hell' system.

Coach K just has to get twelve nasty players to create max havoc
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To be fair that’s also back when teams had maybe 2 good ball handlers on the court. Now, the 4 and even 5 can be involved with breaking the press.
Honestly I don’t know why we press, much less when we have a lead. It leads to more easy layups and open 3s than any press I’ve seen prior when playing decent competition. And how they try to press the rebounder with 3 or 4? One pass from a 3 on 1 or just dribble by. Low iq coaching and playing tbh.
Press when backups for the other team are in or when behind. All it does otherwise is give teams easy buckets.
 
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#666
#666
I've always wondered why more teams don't use this system if it can bring such success Especially the teams with the best athletes. But it's always been a flash in the pan. Did Richardson use hockey subbing? I can't remember.

Turns out it fell out of favor for every common sense reason pointed out here from day one. Because the competition, esp guard play, is better at this level, the opposing coaching strategy is better, the system is prone to giving up easy baskets, the system requires overly rigorous precision training, and, there's something for everyone here, the system is prone to copious fouling.

If only they'd been warned!
 
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#667
#667
Jax_Vol said:
Nolan Richardson had great success with his "40 minutes of hell' system.

Coach K just has to get twelve nasty players to create max havoc
Click to expand...
Like she said nothing we are doing now resembles the system she wants to play. She hasn't been able to get them there and they don't shoot or guard well enough in any system. I see seven players at least where we need a better one.
 
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#668
#668
glv98 said:
I've always wondered why more teams don't use this system if it can bring such success Especially the teams with the best athletes. But it's always been a flash in the pan. Did Richardson use hockey subbing? I can't remember.

Turns out it fell out of favor for every common sense reason pointed out here from day one. Because the competition, esp guard play, is better at this level, the opposing coaching strategy is better, the system is prone to giving up easy baskets, the system requires overly rigorous precision training, and, there's something for everyone here, the system is prone to copious fouling.

If only they'd been warned!
Click to expand...
As I recall, Richardson didn't insert groups of five new players. However, he did far more rotating than most other coaches of the era.

He threw a large number of tremendous athletes at them. And he basically wore teams down. Had a few future NBA guys in his mix....lot of athletes, long, lean, quick twitch, defensive hounds.
 
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#669
#669
Volfan2012 said:
I have always said it is not all coaching it is player execution. That is why she will be back next season with a lot of new players and almost only the freshmen on this one. That season will be everything for her to prove she can have success here.
Click to expand...
Deja vu all over again. We say this every yr and then swear the players we get are exactly the right ones. Until we see them actually play.

People underestimate how hard these Unicorn players are to find. Players who are both superior athletes and superior skilled, high IQ players are rarely one and the same. The Lady Vols have been on the pendulum ride between cheetahs and plow horses for years. This system seems to call even more for the Unicorn player. I hope we find 10 of them willing to play in two minutes spurts too, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't think new players will be a panacea. Heavily adjusted coaching, Improved communication and a more viable system. also have to happen.

That said, I do think a wholesale change in roster is necessary next year. This house is extremely musty and whoever's fault that is, it badly needs to be aired out. If carefully approached and planned, next season has to be better just because it's not this toxic season.
 
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#670
#670
glv98 said:
Deja vu all over again. We say this every yr and then swear the players we get are exactly the right ones. Until we see them actually play.

People underestimate how hard these Unicorn players are to find. Players who are both superior athletes and superior skilled, high IQ players are rarely one and the same. The Lady Vols have been on the pendulum ride between cheetahs and plow horses for years. This system seems to call even more for the Unicorn player. I hope we find 10 of them willing to play in two minutes spurts too, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't think new players will be a panacea. Heavily adjusted coaching, Improved communication and a more viable system. also have to happen.

That said, I do think a wholesale change in roster is necessary next year. This house is extremely musty and whoever's fault that is, it badly needs to be aired out. If carefully approached and planned, next season has to be better just because it's not this toxic season.
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I know but sure that is the AD plan so we have to live with it. We need a makeover for sure
 
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#672
#672
RetroVol said:
I'm afraid I don't understand your point. This Tennessee team isn't short on height.
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Means she ran a bunch of smaller quicker players against teams that couldn’t athletically keep up. At this level, players are bigger, stronger, faster. She has players built differently than she’s had against competition built differently and it’s not working.
 
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#673
#673
Skooter said:
Means she ran a bunch of smaller quicker players against teams that couldn’t athletically keep up. At this level, players are bigger, stronger, faster. She has players built differently than she’s had against competition built differently and it’s not working.
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Seriously asking here. You are suggesting that her teams at Glenville were smaller than her opponents teams? And that bigger D2 players are less athletically competitive with smaller D2 players than is the case at D1? Am I understanding your point correctly?
 
#674
#674
RetroVol said:
Seriously asking here. You are suggesting that her teams at Glenville were smaller than her opponents teams? And that bigger D2 players are less athletically competitive with smaller D2 players than is the case at D1? Am I understanding your point correctly?
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Im saying D1 SEC is a different level of player from all aspects and you can’t out athlete other teams with a tiny team in stature like you can in D2. If a decent HS player wants to play D2 sports, he/she can make it happen. Some of the schools are smaller than high schools.
 
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