GAME THREAD: Texas A&M in Knoxville, Thursday, 2/19, 6:30 pm EST, SECN+

[glv98]

I am already seeing 8 and 8 have to see if that still get us seventh place. Sixth or Seventh are the best Tourney positions left. Five were not going to get and Eight you play number one in the second game if you make it that far. Kentucky looks like the team were contending with for that seventh spot. So they are at Vandy and need to lose there and to SC last game of the schedule. We go and lose all three left we tie with them at 8 and 8 and we have the tiebreaker.

Hobson's choice. Kentucky losing at Vandy may be best for our SEC tournament seeding, but it's sure not for our chances of making the NCAA tournament (words I thought I'd never type). Kentucky is our best win by a long shot, don't need it diminished, OTOH we probably need two wins in the SEC tourney to ensure our big dance spot, esp if we lose the remaining games. The dilemma of underachieving.

Woke up yesterday needing to beat one of the big three to be in the conversation to host. 24 hours later, we desperately need to beat one to even insure we get n Tough times.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

Yes, but he was from "France."

If people are actually looking for a replacement coach who is a proven winner, I hear that Bruce Pearl is available...if you can tear him away from his barbecue pit.

Lot to unpack from that post, good job creek.

 

[Volfan2012]

No it's not but after so long you need to let it DIE....why beat a deadhorse.. this is just as bad as the ones in Basketball forum still licking the window for Bruce Pearl after every game we lose...

No need to talk about Kellie Harper anymore she is finished at Tennessee. Kellie wasn't the answer even though suddenly a lot of people now think she was. If we had just went big instead of Harper and Caldwell that seven years ago we wouldn't be having all these problems now. Tennessee always has to hire their share of Dooley's and Pruitts in every sport before they are willing to pay the money it cost to get a competent coach.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

I am of the opinion that we'll only see improvement next season if the coaching system changes and she upgrades some of her Assistants. I don't think it will happen though she thinks this system will work at any level and although hopefully with a improved roster she may able to win more just doesn't look like a system that will win a title SEC or otherwise.

Agree, her assistants came highly regarded but it seems they have not been able to get much out of this bunch of players. May have missed on the evaluations of several they brought in. Looked good on paper but have some issues. New assistant changes may help.

 

[LadyVolsDiehard]

Actually, I think it's easier to get a coach to come in to a disaster than to "we're almost there, get us over the hump." I think the real pressure would be timing and talent. For example, say next year goes south and Kim is let go and DW gets a new coach in before the portal opens. And suppose we keep all the freshmen, plus our two recruits and Kaniya, plus either another couple of players, recruit or portal that would be eligible to come back. The pressure would be HUGE to come in and re-recruit those players, then get more, and the belief would be that "We had the players. It was Kim's system that was holding us back. We should compete at the top of the SEC next year." No grace year at all. That's tough. And, if the new hire didn't manage to retain just about all of the talent already here? Yeah, that would be a tough start also.

On top of that, what are they going to be selling? Kim has her very different approach, one that offer some things to players, though it also has drawbacks. Most other coaches coming in are going to be selling, "Yeah, we're going to do what Geno, Waltz, Dawn, and all the others are doing, we're just going to do it better." That's a tough sell.

And might I add before I punch my time clock, fans want her fired but the moment she's fired everything falls. You lose recruits, lose asst. coaches...Some simply don't think when you fire a coach house of cards falls.

 

[VolFan_stuck_in_the_901]

And might I add before I punch my time clock, fans want her fired but the moment she's fired everything falls. You lose recruits, lose asst. coaches...Some simply don't think when you fire a coach house of cards falls.

Let's not pretend like it's that big of a house of cards at the moment

 

[Volfan2012]

Hobson's choice. Kentucky losing at Vandy may be best for our SEC tournament seeding, but it's sure not for our chances of making the NCAA tournament (words I thought I'd never type). Kentucky is our best win by a long shot, don't need it diminished, OTOH we probably need two wins in the SEC tourney to ensure our big dance spot, esp if we lose the remaining games. The dilemma of underachieving.

Woke up yesterday needing to beat one of the big three to be in the conversation to host. 24 hours later, we desperately need to beat one to even insure we get n Tough times.

Still not to concerned about not making the NCAA no matter any of the ending results. Net is 22 sos is 1 were still a 6 seed even after that crappy loss. At least everyone else we play is rated highly so sos will remain 1 Net stay at least 25 so were a long way of dropping past 35 which would be where it would get scarry to not make the NCAA field.

 

[vols90]

Something else that has always stuck out to me about CKC is that she has no emotion on the sideline. She just always looks pissed. I get being locked in or whatever, but as a player, I would want my coach to show at least some emotion. We can be building momentum and the crowd is getting excited and loud, and she’s just standing there with her arms folded like she’s bored I know she has a different personality, but how do you not get at least a little excited?

 

[Volfan2012]

Agree, her assistants came highly regarded but it seems they have not been able to get much out of this bunch of players. May have missed on the evaluations of several they brought in. Looked good on paper but have some issues. New assistant changes may help.

Someone with some offensive and defensive expertise. I know without a doubt none of the current ones have any of that knowledge. They are over there drawing up plays may as well have a tic tac toe board instead.

 

[glv98]

I am of the opinion that we'll only see improvement next season if the coaching system changes and she upgrades some of her Assistants. I don't think it will happen though she thinks this system will work at any level and although hopefully with a improved roster she may able to win more just doesn't look like a system that will win a title SEC or otherwise.

IMO, the go to coach in trouble move of rearrangng the deck chairs on some insignificant assistants is almost certain to happen. Can't do nothing after a disaster like this.

When we talk about "system", by now I think it's just generic for everything Kim Caldwell does. She actually has backed off of the full system significantly. Has talked about scrapping the quick three offense all season, though one of the oddities is the players have continued to mostly play that way. Definitely has scaled back the press and trapping; in fact, I believe both OM and TAM pressed about as much as we did.

What she clings to and seems the most enamored of is the damn subbing system. Which in her presser last night she even admitted is completely out of control, but she blames the players for being too inconsistent to be able to be subbed in anytime anywhere n any situation.

Interesting that all the data shows she abandons her stupid subbing system in the fourth quarter of close games. Because she knows situational subbing gives her the best chance to win. My question is if you know that, why isnt it also the best way to win in quarters 1 2 and 3? I fear she clings to it as the last remainder of her previous identity. Sad because I may be projecting my own frustration, but I bet the nutty subbing is the very thing that has the players so very unhappy.

 

[glv98]

Actually, I think it's easier to get a coach to come in to a disaster than to "we're almost there, get us over the hump." I think the real pressure would be . Most other coaches coming in are going to be selling, "Yeah, we're going to do what Geno, Waltz, Dawn, and all the others are doing, we're just going to do it better." That's a tough sell.

I imagine it's the same tough sell that it is to a recruit to say "Yeah, we're going to do what Kim has always done, only with better players."

Something else that has always stuck out to me about CKC is that she has no emotion on the sideline. She just always looks pissed. I get being locked in or whatever, but as a player, I would want my coach to show at least some emotion. We can be building momentum and the crowd is getting excited and loud, and she’s just standing there with her arms folded like she’s bored I know she has a different personality, but how do you not get at least a little excited?

Very true and a real example of the team following a coach's personality. Outside of the freshman, mostly the Twins, it is the most emotionally lifeless LV team team I've ever seen. Except of course for the emotion of frustration which is there in spades.

 

[RetroVol]

I imagine it's the same tough sell that it is to a recruit to say "Yeah, we're going to do what Kim has always done, only with better players."

Oh, yeah. Kim's going to face some tough conversations with both remaining '26 recruits and portal prospects for next year.

 

[mprock]

UT once had a proud program. If you want to compete with the big time programs need to fire Kim and spend big money to get a big name coach.

 

[volfan102455]

Hobson's choice. Kentucky losing at Vandy may be best for our SEC tournament seeding, but it's sure not for our chances of making the NCAA tournament (words I thought I'd never type). Kentucky is our best win by a long shot, don't need it diminished, OTOH we probably need two wins in the SEC tourney to ensure our big dance spot, esp if we lose the remaining games. The dilemma of underachieving.

Woke up yesterday needing to beat one of the big three to be in the conversation to host. 24 hours later, we desperately need to beat one to even insure we get n Tough times.

Sad turn of events - the thing is this team is definitely among the 64 best teams but that is not how this works.

There are automatic bids for the conferences. There will be surprises that will change the number of available "at large" spots. There are approximately 37 of those. The target now is either win the SEC tourney (not going to happen) or hope for no surprises in all the conference tourneys and maybe the argument for this team being among the 37 best at large team will pan out.

 

[mcdoug]

You’re trying to make it look like KH didn’t finish 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th. Yes the bar is higher than 5th-6th.

Since you’re accounting for other factors, I will too. We WERE probably middle of the pack with NIL significantly behind LSU and USC while finishing 3rd-4th. Now we’re top 1-3? When you get outbid heavily for freshmen/etc, hard to sign them, no? We obviously signed a TON of talent immediately when the NIL funds increased. Must be a coincidence.

Also Missouri has a good signing class this year apparently so I think we might have gotten the narrative wrong…

Since we're talking about Kellie, has it occurred to any of you guys that if she had recruited better pre-NIL she might well have been given competitive funding. A couple of top five classes in her first two years might have loosened some booster wallets. Her class at Missouri this year is good for Missouri but do you seriously think it's championship good? Yes, I think Kellie is a better coach than Kim, but I don't think she is final four national championship good and that's the standard here.

IIRC, deerpark reported that Moren and Barancyck wanted our job two years ago but DW had his eye on Kim. I have no idea what DW is thinking, but he can't possibly be happy with this situation. DW has a very, very tough decision to make, and he's going to catch hell either way.

 

[WVU05UT09]

Agree, her assistants came highly regarded but it seems they have not been able to get much out of this bunch of players. May have missed on the evaluations of several they brought in. Looked good on paper but have some issues. New assistant changes may help.

Does she take advice from assistants? She comes off very hard headed which makes me wonder if it matters who the assistants are.

 

[Chippo]

I guess you want your ticket prices for sports to go up in order to get that "elite coach" and you know how many in vols fans have been hating that idea too.

I see your point,,hadn't thought about that.

 

[volfan102455]

What she clings to and seems the most enamored of is the damn subbing system. Which in her presser last night she even admitted is completely out of control, but she blames the players for being too inconsistent to be able to be subbed in anytime anywhere n any situation.

Interesting that all the data shows she abandons her stupid subbing system in the fourth quarter of close games. Because she knows situational subbing gives her the best chance to win. My question is if you know that, why isnt it also the best way to win in quarters 1 2 and 3? I fear she clings to it as the last remainder of her previous identity. Sad because I may be projecting my own frustration, but I bet the nutty subbing is the very thing that has the players so very unhappy.

Same was true against Kentucky - I just don't know why she doesn't realize it is not working and it is not all on the players.

If a player is playing good and does not appear to be tired - leave her in.

 

[1reVOLver]

But if you believe, as I do, that a seasoned D-1 coach would have had better overall results with the current roster, then you have to wonder if another year or two of on-the-job-training for the head coach will result in the level of improvement that TN fans demand.

Good question. I am not smart enough to speculate usefully.

If Kim is the coach next year—likely I think—she will change quite a lot of what doesn't work and have some success. That assumes she's intelligent and flexible. If she doesn't repair what's obviously not working, we will have a new coach, that both of us hope will be a “seasoned D1” person with a record of successful progress.

 

[brittannica]

I see your point,,hadn't thought about that.

ticket prices went up regardless. i would pay more to win.

 

[Volfan2012]

Didn't watch the LSU game need to see what they did in that game versus McMahon they really slowed her down from the road race she put on us.

 

[RetroVol]

What she clings to and seems the most enamored of is the damn subbing system. Which in her presser last night she even admitted is completely out of control, but she blames the players for being too inconsistent to be able to be subbed in anytime anywhere n any situation.

I put some of the transcript from that press conference over in the thread on "The Kim Caldwell System." And, yeah. that stood out. I think some of the effort to give Robertson, Wofenbarger, and even Wynn opportunities pre-season went on too long and became counter-productive. A lot of us were wanting to see Hurst getting more time early on, and right now that seems like it would have been the right call. So, yeah, players may have been inconsistent, but some of the inconsistency might have been mitigated with some tough decisions earlier.

Kim has talked about what a difference this system made as she experienced it as a player in terms of team cohesion. Nearly everyone getting to play and contributing. Not feeling like substitutions were punishment but welcoming them as a chance to breathe and get ready to go again. I think the rest factor is different, as we've discussed, with every game having added tv timeouts, plus the long reviews of plays. Lots of time to rest for both teams. But the cohesion factor is real and seems to have worked at Glennville, Marshall (she came with a lot of love from those fans), and in her first year here. It seems to me it's fallen apart this year, and I suspect that is devastating to her. I'm guessing that, if it was as good an experience for her as she said, she wanted it for her players and, for the most part, has gotten it. So this year has to be a blow. And that could be part of the dynamic behind her continued use of that system.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

And then we got Papa Pauldo out here making it about his daughters and how his daughter wasn’t the cause of Cotie’s 39 points and losing the team aspect smh. At some point we gotta stop the bleeding on some front

 

[glv98]

Oh, yeah. Kim's going to face some tough conversations with both remaining '26 recruits and portal prospects for next year.

Especially if she continues to not offer alternatives for what's not working. So far, she has not been able to do that

Sad turn of events - the thing is this team is definitely among the 64 best teams but that is not how this works.

I don't know, if ever there was a case for you are what your results say you are, and not what you should be on paper, I think this team is it. the word talent is constantly confused with potential.

IIRC, deerpark reported that Moren and Barancyck wanted our job two years ago but DW had his eye on Kim. I have no idea what DW is thinking, but he can't possibly be happy with this situation. DW has a very, very tough decision to make, and he's going to catch hell either way.

I thought Moran turned it down. did not accept an interview. Deer Park can correct this if wrong, but I'm pretty sure at least initial feelers went out to established coaches and when none of them expressed interest, they turned to the experiment

 

[mcdoug]

Especially if she continues to not offer alternatives for what's not working. So far, she has not been able to do that

I don't know, if ever there was a case for you are what your results say you are, and not what you should be on paper, I think this team is it. the word talent is constantly confused with potential.

I thought Moran turned it down. did not accept an interview. Deer Park can correct this if wrong, but I'm pretty sure at least initial feelers went out to established coaches and when none of them expressed interest, they turned to the experiment

You may be right and my memory is incorrect, but I find it really hard to believe that there was no interest from anyone other than coaches like Kim.