GAME THREAD: Texas A&M in Knoxville, Thursday, 2/19, 6:30 pm EST, SECN+

[creekdipper]

Where us Darth.? Or Jumper?

What, me worry?

 

[Chippo]

I would absolutely love to steal Mulkey away from LSU, but that’s a big dream on. That’d be like trying to take Staley from SC. My fear is that whenever he does let CKC go, he’ll go for another project like Molly Miller who would take us even further down the ranks. I just don’t want to turn into a program that can barely get 1000 fans in the stands

White has to come up with some big money
To get a qualified coach at this level.

 

[Chippo]

Remember when the losses in the pre-conference schedule were going to get the team ready for conference play? We are likely to finish 8-8 again but this season feels like a major regression.If this were another team, I don’t think there would be any debate that it is a poorly coached team. This season is probably cooked. CKC has a lot of work to do and a decision to make - what is more important being successful or continue trying to prove that this dumb system will work (someday)

Never liked a run and gun system jmo.

 

[volsagain]

I can’t get your first sentence out of my head, you described it perfectly. When you play well, make a big shot, or whatever, and are subbed out, because it’s time, there’s no positive reinforcement, in fact, just the opposite. It’s a spirit killer, and it keeps happening.

I really think this is the biggest problem. Players just getting settled in to the game and get replaced even though they are doing well. Subbing without cause is the underlying problem and getting into the headspace of the players. Last year's team embrace the opportunity to make it work and had better fundamentals also. This team doesn't like it and are aggravated by it . Also when trailing in the game you can't just put the end of the bench in just to dig a bigger hole.

 

[creekdipper]

Beldar got 3 years

Yes, but he was from "France."

If people are actually looking for a replacement coach who is a proven winner, I hear that Bruce Pearl is available...if you can tear him away from his barbecue pit.

 

[StorrsCentral]

When that time comes, Tennessee can hire any coach they want if the AD and hiring committee take the appropriate approach.
There’s no such thing as a candidate they can’t land.

That's right, and I believe the situation was the same 2 years ago when the hired CKC. I thought that you were delusional regarding players, but come on, this is a tough gig, so why would an established coach, a great coach at that, leave their institution and move to an environment that boarders on written abuse every time the team loses. It's the same when Geno retires, this coach, as well as the current and past coaches, are constantly compared to the Pat years. He needs to hire a young coach, but a coach, or even a great assistant coach, that doesn't care about the past but comes from an established program and has been working for a great D1 coach. I don't know how good she would be on her own, but what about Vics daughter? One thing you can be sure of if she is anything like Vic, the passion and knowledge would be a given, so that is the kind of assistant that may be out there. IMO, if she is back next year than DW is not doing his job.

 

[Rooster1]

LADY VOLS EDGE #12 TEXAS, 74-70, IN OVERTIME THRILLER​

This was on November 21, 2021.

Vic Schaefer was the Coach.

He must get tired of being wrong so often. his posts are always a fact check bonanza.

 

[chuckiepoo]

What, me worry?

There’s the @MAD signal!

 

[LadyVolsDiehard]

White has to come up with some big money
To get a qualified coach at this level.

I guess you want your ticket prices for sports to go up in order to get that "elite coach" and you know how many in vols fans have been hating that idea too.

 

[1reVOLver]

When a team gets whupped by S. Carolina or UConn, it is because the opponent has
better players and is very well prepared by an experienced coach.

When a team loses to a cellar dweller it is because the losing team is unprepared, unmotivated, badly coached and the players have thrown in the towel in the first five minutes.

Invoking glorious history changes nothing. Pat was great and Pat will forever have been great. Writing revisionist history of former coaches changes nothing. CKJH was solidly very good and not good enough and all the “…if only she/he/they woulda shouldas” will not alter that fact.

The present system is not working and needs to change substantially or be scrapped. The current coach needs to learn flexibility, develop and implement plans B and C, and ally herself with her team. The players? Some need to keep growing and developing. Some need to go elsewhere. There is a heap of individual talent, and a paucity of teamwork. Blame who you will; it needs fixing.



click me

I'm sorry! HAL, We need to change course.

 

[Volinnooga]

I call bs.

Explain please

 

[LadyVolsDiehard]

Funny how after every loss the CKC vs CJH comparisons come flying out from under the rocks...it's like some are just waiting to pounce on this topic, almost like fans want CKC to fail so they can pound their chest and say " I told you so".

Yes. CKC system obviously isn't working here with these young pups and a few veterans in the mix. She just needs to adapt to change or be let go. As for CKH fans need to realize that ship has done sailed and it's never going to dock in Knoxville again. It's been almost 2 years and obviously the big money boosters wanted her gone before releasing anymore money as bad as the CKH backers don't want to believe it.
Do I think or believe CKC gets let go after this season? TBD, but I will say this if you keep starting over every few years all you're doing is nothing but chasing your tail.

As always heads up and Go Lady Vols.

It doesn't matter how many facts one throws with this topic, they will blame DW, when truth be told it's the boosters who will always have the final say who they want to come or go at any university. CKH had some good moments beating some elite programs throughout her 5 years but the walls on her by year 4, similar to Holly closed in on her, at the consistency of winning piece. In a 5 year contract, which many new coaches get on their first attempt, the 3rd year tends be the tell tale sign if the coach is truly the future. I thought KH would be out of the clear as she went 25-9 that season but a key serious medical injury happened to her defensive post and we had 4 damn wings 6-2/6'3 trying to get on the court for playing time. She got a increase in pay despite 25-12 but couldn't finish no more then 4th in conference when it was all set and done year 5.

And this last part I highlighted in your post, we are a joke of program if we go through another coach within 2 seasons. It's one thing if CKW left on her own accord or we missed the tournament was let go but yeah the rest I get being upset we're still not " sure thing winners" like we once were. I get frustrated by it every year. It hurts, I'm a die hard after all. Even though I never was a fan of CKH having the job I gave her chance she just didn't meet enough expectations for me as a fan. I'm in the give CKC one more year, I'll be in the minority, to see if this year was simply a learning curb riddled with youth, uneven coaching, toxicity and bad basketball. Now if this keeps up in year 3 then I can fully say "it's over CKC, time to pack up".

Sorry for the long post.

 

[RetroVol]

From Claude:

Tennessee Lady Vols Substitution Patterns
vs Texas A&M - Chronological

	TN	TAMU
Q1	8:59 2-2 7:33 5-5 4:20 5-5 2:41 5-5 2:04 1-1 1:41 1-1 1:31 1-1 0:41 1-1	6:02 2-2 4:20 2-2 2:41 2-2 2:04 1-1
Q2	7:27 4-4 6:11 3-3 5:25 1-1 4:44 2-2 3:36 1-1 1:52 2-2 0:51 1-1	10:00 2-2 7:27 2-2 6:11 2-2 5:25 1-1 3:36 1-1 1:52 3-3 0:51 2-2
Q3	10:00 1-1 7:53 2-2 6:25 5-5 5:40 1-1 4:20 4-4 3:19 1-1	10:00 2-2 7:53 1-1 6:25 1-1 4:20 3-3 3:33 1-1 2:09 1-1 1:51 2-2 1:02 1-1
Q4	10:00 2-2 9:44 1-1 8:33 4-4 8:13 1-1 6:29 1-1 5:27 2-2 4:22 2-2 3:51 1-1 3:37 1-1 1:08 1-1	10:00 2-2 8:53 1-1 8:13 1-1 5:27 3-3 2:52 2-2

 

[glv98]

It doesn't matter how many facts one throws with this topic, they will blame DW, when truth be told it's the boosters who will always have the final say who they want to come or go at any university. CKH had some good moments beating some elite programs throughout her 5 years but the walls on her by year 4, similar to Holly closed in on her, at the consistency of winning piece. In a 5 year contract, which many new coaches get on their first attempt, the 3rd year tends be the tell tale sign if the coach is truly the future. I thought KH would be out of the clear as she went 25-9 that season but a key serious medical injury happened to her defensive post and we had 4 damn wings 6-2/6'3 trying to get on the court for playing time. She got a increase in pay despite 25-12 but couldn't finish no more then 4th in conference when it was all set and done year 5.

And this last part I highlighted in your post, we are a joke of program if we go through another coach within 2 seasons. It's one thing if CKW left on her own accord or we missed the tournament was let go but yeah the rest I get being upset we're still not " sure thing winners" like we once were. I get frustrated by it every year. It hurts, I'm a die hard after all. Even though I never was a fan of CKH having the job I gave her chance she just didn't meet enough expectations for me as a fan. I'm in the give CKC one more year, I'll be in the minority, to see if this year was simply a learning curb riddled with youth, uneven coaching, toxicity and bad basketball. Now if this keeps up in year 3 then I can fully say "it's over CKC, time to pack up".

Sorry for the long post.

Don't think there's many, outside of trolls and hot heads, who expect CKC to be fired now, or even after this year. You're right it would be a bad look to bail this soon, though I can also see the argument for cutting your losses.

That's the thing that concerns me most, how far and how deep these losses and the ensuing program damage are going to go before the program gets back on track. Don't think anyone expected to have to go this far backwards in order to get ahead.Two things can be true: Kellie got painfully close, but couldn't get over the hump and so the boosters abandoned her. Also true that on her worst day she was never ever this bad.

I understand that another CKC year is sure to happen, and I understand giving her space to see if this year is just a fluke. What terrifies me is if this year isn't a fluke, where the hell is the basement that our beloved lady vols will end up in this time next year? How do you attract a credible coach to that?

 

[mudcat1973]

You’re totally right. Even though
everyone was wanting Staley, Mulkey, Walz, Gottlieb, Close, Lawson, etc., we hired the coach from Marshall/ Glenville State .

I said it was absurd and I had a lot of hopefuls say I was wrong. I actually think if Danny Dimes keeps pumping money then eventually it can’t fail.

But keep not taking me seriously and let me know when any of those coaches (or any new delusional ones you have) take the job and I’ll concede.

This transfer portal with the house settlement revenue sharing there is going to be more horse buyers at the auction.

Unlike real horses young women will get chose there home/barn.

Even Danny white said they front loaded talent before house settlement revenue sharing kick in.

Tennessee needs to wiser because teams without strong nil backing . Some of them will spend on revenue sharing women's basketball. Probably most won't spend 5% like Tennessee on women's basketball. But every bit spend will drive up prices.

Kim Caldwell needs go 3minutes at least most players shift.
Understand some players might be give the starter a quick breathers.

Be more selective of when press or whether to use a hard press or soft press to shorting opponent shot clock.

Money is not going to fix it if Kim Caldwell not willing to adjust her system . She needs more players than not with a year in her system preference high school players majority.
But sophomores and junior out of the transfer portal make good building blocks if they fit your team system.

With the right senior could be icing on the cake out of the transfer portal.

 

[Volfan2012]

She won't be fired this year could still possibly get fired when the season is over I think that is a long shot as well. Quite a bit of money tied up in her current contract and even though she is getting a lot of blame as she should the players also need their fair share as well. Don't know why on any given night only one or two upperclassmen come to play. All are never on the same page with two or three struggling while one other plays well.
The system is daunting for the players as there are no defined roles, no defined positions, everything is freelance and you can shoot any shot you please anytime you please. Kim says we need to play great defense, but she puts the players in position with the system where that is difficult to do. When your giving a team as many open shots, no defensive player within ten feet of them, your going to get burned and we did for at least 30 points or more in that game because of the press.
I am already seeing 8 and 8 have to see if that still get us seventh place. Sixth or Seventh are the best Tourney positions left. Five were not going to get and Eight you play number one in the second game if you make it that far. Kentucky looks like the team were contending with for that seventh spot. So they are at Vandy and need to lose there and to SC last game of the schedule. We go and lose all three left we tie with them at 8 and 8 and we have the tiebreaker.
Almost a certainty that Georgia and Alabama will lose another game and we have the tiebreaker over both of them.

 

[Volfan2012]

I think what the end of season plan might be is to try to retain the freshmen, as we have two very good ones one very underrated and probably better than any of the five we have now, coming in to the program.
Latham may be back as a senior I don't see her wanting to go anywhere she will have the same or bigger role next season. Cooper may stay or leave not caring either way she is so up and down that we could probably find someone in the portal that could give more consistent minutes.
We should have plenty of portal money with Spearman, Barker, Wynn, Robertson, Wolfenbarger, and maybe Wade all leaving. So we should be able to find at least four competent players to replace these players. Really won't need much to replace all of them but Barker.

 

[VintageFan]

When a team gets whupped by S. Carolina or UConn, it is because the opponent has
better players and is very well prepared by an experienced coach.

When a team loses to a cellar dweller it is because the losing team is unprepared, unmotivated, badly coached and the players have thrown in the towel in the first five minutes.

Invoking glorious history changes nothing. Pat was great and Pat will forever have been great. Writing revisionist history of former coaches changes nothing. CKJH was solidly very good and not good enough and all the “…if only she/he/they woulda shouldas” will not alter that fact.

The present system is not working and needs to change substantially or be scrapped. The current coach needs to learn flexibility, develop and implement plans B and C, and ally herself with her team. The players? Some need to keep growing and developing. Some need to go elsewhere. There is a heap of individual talent, and a paucity of teamwork. Blame who you will; it needs fixing.


View attachment 815538
click me

I'm sorry! HAL, We need to change course.

Well said.

But if you believe, as I do, that a seasoned D-1 coach would have had better overall results with the current roster, then you have to wonder if another year or two of on-the-job-training for the head coach will result in the level of improvement that TN fans demand.

 

[cwbytruckers]

This transfer portal with the house settlement revenue sharing there is going to be more horse buyers at the auction.

Unlike real horses young women will get chose there home/barn.

Even Danny white said they front loaded talent before house settlement revenue sharing kick in.

Tennessee needs to wiser because teams without strong nil backing . Some of them will spend on revenue sharing women's basketball. Probably most won't spend 5% like Tennessee on women's basketball. But every bit spend will drive up prices.

Kim Caldwell needs go 3minutes at least most players shift.
Understand some players might be give the starter a quick breathers.

Be more selective of when press or whether to use a hard press or soft press to shorting opponent shot clock.

Money is not going to fix it if Kim Caldwell not willing to adjust her system . She needs more players than not with a year in her system preference high school players majority.
But sophomores and junior out of the transfer portal make good building blocks if they fit your team system.

With the right senior could be icing on the cake out of the transfer portal.

As far as subbing goes i just think the whole hockey line switch is the issue. Lets say you have five girls in the game and you see for instance like last night Barker was playing better than anyone. The couple game or so prior Cooper was shooting pretty hot. Keep subbing but cut that number back. If a player is in a groove that player should only come out when you see her getting tired or lacking effort on the court. Biggest problem with her subbing is you may have a mixture of players that are feeling it but never on the court together. And im not going to throw a specific player under the bus. But if you watched the game there are one or two that cant play post defense. There are one or two that no matter who has the inbounds pass gets blown by with the dribble because they cant stay in front of someone. Pick your best pressing guards and when they are on the floor you press. When they are not you drop back into half court. Recognize what your strengths and weaknesses are and that seems to be a flaw CKC isnt doing or refuses to except.

 

[Volfan2012]

Don't think there's many, outside of trolls and hot heads, who expect CKC to be fired now, or even after this year. You're right it would be a bad look to bail this soon, though I can also see the argument for cutting your losses.

That's the thing that concerns me most, how far and how deep these losses and the ensuing program damage are going to go before the program gets back on track. Don't think anyone expected to have to go this far backwards in order to get ahead.Two things can be true: Kellie got painfully close, but couldn't get over the hump and so the boosters abandoned her. Also true that on her worst day she was never ever this bad.

I understand that another CKC year is sure to happen, and I understand giving her space to see if this year is just a fluke. What terrifies me is if this year isn't a fluke, where the hell is the basement that our beloved lady will end up in this time next year? How do you attract a credible coach to that?

If Kim fails next season then the way you get a competent coach is to pay them. No one was coming here for what he paid Kim or even what she is being paid now. You can get who you want may take 2 to 3 million and a five year deal, but there are plenty out there who will come for that kind of pay. Not Mulkey, Staley, or Vince no reason for any of them to go anywhere. You can get almost any of the others some a lot cheaper and some would take the above amount mentioned.
If we have to go there again stay away from the up and comers and get someone that has established themselves with success at this P4 level. For now let us hope Kim can figure it out, be willing to change, and find success.

 

[mudcat1973]

Funny how after every loss the CKC vs CKH comparisons come flying out from under the rocks...it's like some are just waiting to pounce on this topic, almost like fans want CKC to fail so they can pound their chest and say " I told you so".

Yes. CKC system obviously isn't working here with these young pups and a few veterans in the mix. She just needs to adapt to change or be let go. As for CKH fans need to realize that ship has done sailed and it's never going to dock in Knoxville again. It's been almost 2 years and obviously the big money boosters wanted her gone before releasing anymore money as bad as the CKH backers don't want to believe it.
Do I think or believe CKC gets let go after this season? TBD, but I will say this if you keep starting over every few years all you're doing is nothing but chasing your tail.

As always heads up and Go Lady Vols.

We know that ship has left the docks.
But just like every time someone takes unnecessarily pokes at Kellie Harper. You going to get push back especially when more pile on.

people who like Kellie Harper ain't changing there mind of how they like her. So if bashing people on here want Kellie Harper defender to stop defense of her . Stop trying to attack her every chance some you get.

Because it takes two for argument keep going.

For Kellie Harper attacker's as whole not meant for @knoxvol52 specifically.

 

[RetroVol]

I understand that another CKC year is sure to happen, and I understand giving her space to see if this year is just a fluke. What terrifies me is if this year isn't a fluke, where the hell is the basement that our beloved lady will end up in this time next year? How do you attract a credible coach to that?

Actually, I think it's easier to get a coach to come in to a disaster than to "we're almost there, get us over the hump." I think the real pressure would be timing and talent. For example, say next year goes south and Kim is let go and DW gets a new coach in before the portal opens. And suppose we keep all the freshmen, plus our two recruits and Kaniya, plus either another couple of players, recruit or portal that would be eligible to come back. The pressure would be HUGE to come in and re-recruit those players, then get more, and the belief would be that "We had the players. It was Kim's system that was holding us back. We should compete at the top of the SEC next year." No grace year at all. That's tough. And, if the new hire didn't manage to retain just about all of the talent already here? Yeah, that would be a tough start also.

On top of that, what are they going to be selling? Kim has her very different approach, one that offer some things to players, though it also has drawbacks. Most other coaches coming in are going to be selling, "Yeah, we're going to do what Geno, Waltz, Dawn, and all the others are doing, we're just going to do it better." That's a tough sell.

 

[knoxvol52]

We know that ship has left the docks.
But just like every time someone takes unnecessarily pokes at Kellie Harper. You going to push back especially when more pile on.

people who like Kellie Harper ain't changing there mind of how they like her. So if bashing people on here want Kellie Harper defender to stop defense of her . Stop trying to attack her every chance some you get.

Because it takes two for argument keep going.

For Kellie Harper attacker's as whole not meant for @knoxvol52 specifically.

No it's not but after so long you need to let it DIE....why beat a deadhorse.. this is just as bad as the ones in Basketball forum still licking the window for Bruce Pearl after every game we lose...


Btw: as far as the Kellie Harper discussion,I don't care if she is here or not. I just want a winning product on the floor that can move past Sweet 16 every season... But since you took upon yourself to take a pop shot at me here's one back.



Are you a lifelong fan of Lady Vols or are you CKH agent ?

 

[VintageFan]

She won't be fired this year could still possibly get fired when the season is over I think that is a long shot as well. Quite a bit of money tied up in her current contract and even though she is getting a lot of blame as she should the players also need their fair share as well. Don't know why on any given night only one or two upperclassmen come to play. All are never on the same page with two or three struggling while one other plays well.
The system is daunting for the players as there are no defined roles, no defined positions, everything is freelance and you can shoot any shot you please anytime you please. Kim says we need to play great defense, but she puts the players in position with the system where that is difficult to do. When your giving a team as many open shots, no defensive player within ten feet of them, your going to get burned and we did for at least 30 points or more in that game because of the press.
I am already seeing 8 and 8 have to see if that still get us seventh place. Sixth or Seventh are the best Tourney positions left. Five were not going to get and Eight you play number one in the second game if you make it that far. Kentucky looks like the team were contending with for that seventh spot. So they are at Vandy and need to lose there and to SC last game of the schedule. We go and lose all three left we tie with them at 8 and 8 and we have the tiebreaker.
Almost a certainty that Georgia and Alabama will lose another game and we have the tiebreaker over both of them.

Yup, a seven seed in the SEC tourney and maybe the same in the NCAA Tourney seem likely.

Assuming TN doesn't win another game the NCAA selection committee will be looking at a team that lost 9 of its last 11 regular season games, finished in a three-way tie for 7th place (or worse) in the SEC, had more overall wins than only two o fthe 16 SEC teams, and more Top 25 wins than only three. If they flame out in the SEC Tourney they better hope that 10 or 11 SEC teams make the big dance.

 

[Volfan2012]

Well said.

But if you believe, as I do, that a seasoned D-1 coach would have had better overall results with the current roster, then you have to wonder if another year or two of on-the-job-training for the head coach will result in the level of improvement that TN fans demand.

I am of the opinion that we'll only see improvement next season if the coaching system changes and she upgrades some of her Assistants. I don't think it will happen though she thinks this system will work at any level and although hopefully with a improved roster she may able to win more just doesn't look like a system that will win a title SEC or otherwise.