SCOTUS fails to stop TX abortion law.

[Vol8188]

Anyone else remember when the atheist on this board used to tell us they could oppose murder without Christian values?

Seems bearded disagrees with that

 

[BeardedVol]

None that I know of and none than I know of for women. Elective abortions are not healthcare.

There's that conservative circular logic we all know and love.

 

[BeardedVol]

Anyone else remember when the atheist on this board used to tell us they could oppose murder without Christian values?

Seems bearded disagrees with that

I'm not an atheist, but there's no "abortion is murder" argument based on anything other than religious belief, and a narrow "christian" religious belief at that.

Then again you're one of the few that have openly argued that a woman's death from being forced carry a non-viable pregnancy to term, is an acceptable outcome even if the fetus dies as well, as long as she doesn't get an abortion.

 

[hog88]

There's that conservative circular logic we all know and love.

Please explain.

 

[Vol8188]

I'm not an atheist, but there's no "abortion is murder" argument based on anything other than religious belief, and a narrow "christian" religious belief at that.

If you gut a woman in her third trimester, you didn’t murder that baby?

Why if a women elects to have a doctor do it, is it no longer murder (unless you’re an evil Christian, then it’s clearly murder)?

Then again you're one of the few that have openly argued that a woman's death from being forced carry a non-viable pregnancy to term, is an acceptable outcome even if the fetus dies as well, as long as she doesn't get an abortion.

That’s a complete lie. I’m telling you HTN at 5 weeks, seizures, blood clots, uncontrolled diabetes those are not pregnancy induced.

You intentionally lied and continue to do so about the death of a woman so you could promote the death of babies. And continue to do so, after I’ve told you numerous times that that’s not how any of this works.

0 of her issues were pregnancy induced. By definition she did not have eclampsia nor preeclampsia. You’re lying to try and pretend this was a death due to pregnancy. And it’s disgusting. It’s why you could use more Christian morality

 

[BeardedVol]

If you gut a woman in her third trimester, you didn’t murder that baby?

Why if a women elects to have a doctor do it, is it no longer murder (unless you’re an evil Christian, then it’s clearly murder)?


That’s a complete lie. I’m telling you HTN at 5 weeks, seizures, blood clots, uncontrolled diabetes those are not pregnancy induced.

You intentionally lied and continue to do so about the death of a woman so you could promote the death of babies. And continue to do so, after I’ve told you numerous times that that’s not how any of this works.

0 of her issues were pregnancy induced. By definition she did not have eclampsia nor preeclampsia. You’re lying to try and pretend this was a death due to pregnancy. And it’s disgusting. It’s why you could use more Christian morality

If never fails, you pro-life dudes always jump to "everyone will be having elective abortions in the third trimester unless we outlaw all abortions".

Less than 1% of abortions occur in the third trimester. You know what though, if a woman's life is in danger, I 100% support her having the right to choose whether to terminate her pregnancy even in the third trimester. Pregnancy shouldn't be a death sentence, and I wouldn't pass judgment on any woman put into a terrible position like that.

Mrs. Walker had a high-risk pregnancy, and a history of preeclamsia, which you are intentionally ignoring because your argument doesn't hold any any water otherwise; not that it hold any to begin with.

When she asked for an abortion, she was 5 weeks pregnant, that's a non viable fetus at that point. When she died of preeclamsia, at 20 weeks, it was still a nonviable fetus.

There is zero argument for not allowing her to have an abortion at any point between week 5-20, that isn't based on your religious beliefs given her history, and the fact that she'd been hospitalized numerous times in the first and second trimester with complications that threatened both her life and the pregnancy.

 

[Vol8188]

If never fails, you pro-life dudes always jump to "everyone will be having elective abortions in the third trimester unless we outlaw all abortions".

If it’s not murder why would it matter when it happens?

Less than 1% of abortions occur in the third trimester. You know what though, if a woman's life is in danger, I 100% support her having the right to choose whether to terminate her pregnancy even in the third trimester. Pregnancy shouldn't be a death sentence, and I wouldn't pass judgment on any woman put into a terrible position like that.

Then why even bring this data point up? So you support elective termination of viable infants for no good reason?

Pregnancy didn’t kill her. She killed herself.

Mrs. Walker had a high-risk pregnancy, and a history of preeclamsia, which you are intentionally ignoring because your argument doesn't hold any any water otherwise; not that it hold any to begin with.

She was high risk because she was morbidly obese and didn’t care for herself. Fat people with diabetes and severe HtN die of heart disease. This one just happened to be pregnant.

When she asked for an abortion, she was 5 weeks pregnant, that's a non viable fetus at that point. When she died of preeclamsia, at 20 weeks, it was still a nonviable fetus.

It was non viable at 20 weeks because she didn’t take care of herself.

There is zero argument for not allowing her to have an abortion at any point between week 5-20, that isn't based on your religious beliefs given her history, and the fact that she'd been hospitalized numerous times in the first and second trimester with complications that threatened both her life and the pregnancy.

Those complications weren’t from pregnancy.

 

[LouderVol]

We don't need a "perfect world", we just need you guys to stop trying to use your religious beliefs to force women to carry pregnancies to term when they can't or don't want to.

Your hypocrisy results in woman not having control of their own bodies, so you can feel better about a pregnancy being carried to term.

Your hypocrisy results in children being born into unsafe situations.

Your hypocrisy results in the death of women.

You tell yourself that Jesus would want it that way because it's easier for you to swallow the lie than to admit that you actually want the state to control woman's reproductive health, and tat some women dying because they can't get an abortion is acceptable.

I marked out the responses that have nothing to do with my stance.

When did I invoke religion? That is just a red herring you are desperately throwing out there.

killing someone else is generally wrong, except in cases of self defense. I uphold that belief across the board, I don't pick and choose. If the pregnancy is a threat to the mom, abortion is legal and should be available. same with rape, and probably most incest cases. all falls under self defense, and not having control of their body.

if they chose to have sex, they were in control of their body. and that argument goes away. just like you can't kill someone to steal their pancreas if you eat too much sugar and give yourself diabetes. that is on you. you made a bad decision and have to live with it. killing someone else to fix your issue is not a viable option.

to the one issue that wasn't a red herring.

whether a life would rather be terminated rather than face a bad life I leave up to that life. I won't make that decision for them. Some may find any life better than none, given how most people, even the poor and suffering, feel about death, I think its a fair assumption to say most people would prefer to live than not. thus I feel comfortable with the default position of choosing life rather than death.

I also find the argument that because an individual may have a hard time in life as a reason to terminate that life a disgusting argument on its face, with many related issues like eugenics. Are we to kill off any minority because they might face racism? do we kill off any life that won't experience "equity"? its a disgusting stance that gets way too far into creating second class peoples than I am comfortable defaulting to. thus I will choose to protect that life, than default to killing it.

 

[BeardedVol]

If it’s not murder why would it matter when it happens?



Then why even bring this data point up? So you support elective termination of viable infants for no good reason?

Pregnancy didn’t kill her. She killed herself.




She was high risk because she was morbidly obese and didn’t care for herself. Fat people with diabetes and severe HtN die of heart disease. This one just happened to be pregnant.



It was non viable at 20 weeks because she didn’t take care of herself.




Those complications weren’t from pregnancy.

It doesn't particularly matter to me. A woman choosing to terminate a pregnancy is between her and her doctor, and I don't have any business inserting myself, neither do you. You brought up calling it "murder" and then trotting out the old "third trimester abortions" dogwhistle that pro-life men trot out every chance they get.

She did not "kill herself", and the fact that you are now pivoting to that reasoning, just shows that you are a scumbag human being.

She was a high risk pregnancy, and she should have been allowed to terminate the pregnancy at 5 weeks, she wasn't because the life of a woman is considered worth less than an nonviable fetus, and now she's dead.

 

[hog88]

It doesn't particularly matter to me. A woman choosing to terminate a pregnancy is between her and her doctor, and I don't have any business inserting myself, neither do you. You brought up calling it "murder" and then trotting out the old "third trimester abortions" dogwhistle that pro-life men trot out every chance they get.

She did not "kill herself", and the fact that you are now pivoting to that reasoning, just shows that you are a scumbag human being.

She was a high risk pregnancy, and she should have been allowed to terminate the pregnancy at 5 weeks, she wasn't because the life of a woman is considered worth less than an nonviable fetus, and now she's dead.

Texas allows abortions if the life of the mother is in danger.

 

[BeardedVol]

I marked out the responses that have nothing to do with my stance.

When did I invoke religion? That is just a red herring you are desperately throwing out there.

killing someone else is generally wrong, except in cases of self defense. I uphold that belief across the board, I don't pick and choose. If the pregnancy is a threat to the mom, abortion is legal and should be available. same with rape, and probably most incest cases. all falls under self defense, and not having control of their body.

if they chose to have sex, they were in control of their body. and that argument goes away. just like you can't kill someone to steal their pancreas if you eat too much sugar and give yourself diabetes. that is on you. you made a bad decision and have to live with it. killing someone else to fix your issue is not a viable option.

to the one issue that wasn't a red herring.

whether a life would rather be terminated rather than face a bad life I leave up to that life. I won't make that decision for them. Some may find any life better than none, given how most people, even the poor and suffering, feel about death, I think its a fair assumption to say most people would prefer to live than not. thus I feel comfortable with the default position of choosing life rather than death.

I also find the argument that because an individual may have a hard time in life as a reason to terminate that life a disgusting argument on its face, with many related issues like eugenics. Are we to kill off any minority because they might face racism? do we kill off any life that won't experience "equity"? its a disgusting stance that gets way too far into creating second class peoples than I am comfortable defaulting to. thus I will choose to protect that life, than default to killing it.

There is no cogent argument for banning abortions without arguing it from your religious beliefs.

Especially so for having a ban with zero exceptions rape and incest, and a maternal health exemption so vague that doctors wont even consider it.

But I'll bite, make me a good faith science-based argument for why abortion should be totally banned without relying on your christian beliefs, and why the government should be determine whether a woman carries a pregnancy to term, instead of the woman herself.

 

[BeardedVol]

Texas allows abortions if the life of the mother is in danger.

And it was so vague that doctors wouldn't still wouldn't perform one, and they had to pass another bill to try to clarify it.

Bill clarifying exceptions to Texas’ abortion ban passes

The bill does not expand abortion access, but further explains when a doctor can intervene to save a pregnant patient’s life.

www.texastribune.org

Texas doctors can still be charged with a 1st degree felony carrying a sentence of 5-99 years in prison and $100,000+ fine for performing an abortion if the mother wasn't sufficiently in danger enough for the local DA.

How many doctors are going to risk prison and their medical license?

 

[Ritzwatch]

There is no cogent argument for banning abortions without arguing it from your religious beliefs…

Someone really ought to tell these guys (and gals.)

Welcome - Secular Pro-Life

Secular Pro-Life unites people of all faiths & none in the pro-life movement with evidence-based, inclusive resources. Join the conversation.

secularprolife.org

 

[hog88]

And it was so vague that doctors wouldn't still wouldn't perform one, and they had to pass another bill to try to clarify it.

Bill clarifying exceptions to Texas’ abortion ban passes

The bill does not expand abortion access, but further explains when a doctor can intervene to save a pregnant patient’s life.

www.texastribune.org

Texas doctors can still be charged with a 1st degree felony carrying a sentence of 5-99 years in prison and $100,000+ fine for performing an abortion if the mother wasn't sufficiently in danger enough for the local DA.

How many doctors are going to risk prison and their medical license?

Per her Drs her health problems were not related to her pregancy.

“Wouldn’t you think it would be better for me to not have the baby?” she asked a physician at Methodist Hospital Northeast near San Antonio, according to her aunt. Just a few years earlier, Walker had developed a dangerous case of preeclampsia that had led to the stillbirth of her twins.

But the doctor, her family said, told her what many other medical providers would say in the weeks that followed: There was no emergency; nothing was wrong with her pregnancy, only her health.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/19/health/tierra-walker-death-texas-propublica

 

[Vol8188]

It doesn't particularly matter to me. A woman choosing to terminate a pregnancy is between her and her doctor, and I don't have any business inserting myself, neither do you. You brought up calling it "murder" and then trotting out the old "third trimester abortions" dogwhistle that pro-life men trot out every chance they get.

Yes, it’s obviously murder. There’s no dog whistle here. If you support the killing of a healthy 3rd trimester baby how is that anything other than murder?

“His mom and doctor wanted to kill him”, in your mind that justifies the taking of another human life?

She did not "kill herself", and the fact that you are now pivoting to that reasoning, just shows that you are a scumbag human being.

No she did. She was obese. She had uncontrolled hypertension. She had uncontrolled diabetes. Those things killed her and none of those were caused by her pregnancy. That’s why they were all present at 5 weeks.

She was a high risk pregnancy, and she should have been allowed to terminate the pregnancy at 5 weeks, she wasn't because the life of a woman is considered worth less than an nonviable fetus, and now she's dead.

She was high risk because of her own poor health and failed to take adequate steps to prevent pregnancy. The pregnancy did not kill her.

 

[Vol8188]

Per her Drs her health problems were not related to her pregancy.



https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/19/health/tierra-walker-death-texas-propublica

If only obesity, diabetes, and hypertension were treatable…

 

[Vol8188]

Me too if my relative or friend was having complications.

She could literally just order pills online

 

[hog88]

Yes, it’s obviously murder. There’s no dog whistle here. If you support the killing of a healthy 3rd trimester baby how is that anything other than murder?

“His mom and doctor wanted to kill him”, in your mind that justifies the taking of another human life?



No she did. She was obese. She had uncontrolled hypertension. She had uncontrolled diabetes. Those things killed her and none of those were caused by her pregnancy. That’s why they were all present at 5 weeks.



She was high risk because of her own poor health and failed to take adequate steps to prevent pregnancy. The pregnancy did not kill her.

It's almost as if she should have taken precaution not to get pregnant.

 

[hog88]

She could literally just order pills online

That too.

 

[BeardedVol]

Someone really ought to tell these guys (and gals.)

Welcome - Secular Pro-Life

Secular Pro-Life unites people of all faiths & none in the pro-life movement with evidence-based, inclusive resources. Join the conversation.

secularprolife.org

They make the same religious arguments without using religious terminology, but make it even dumber by claiming zygotes and fertilized embryos are morally sacred.

That makes IVF mass murder to them.


Convenient that they leave it off of their stated stances.

 

[BeardedVol]

Per her Drs her health problems were not related to her pregancy.



https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/19/health/tierra-walker-death-texas-propublica

She didn't die from preexisting health problems. She died from preeclamsia at 20 weeks.

You guys can keep pretending that's not the case, but it won't change reality.

Again, if she's allowed to terminate the pregnancy at any point from when she requested to do so at 5 weeks, before her death, she's still alive in spite of whatever other health issues she had.

 

[Vol8188]

She didn't die from preexisting health problems. She died from preeclamsia at 20 weeks.
View attachment 790931
You guys can keep pretending that's not the case, but it won't change reality.

Again, if she's allowed to terminate the pregnancy at any point from when she requested to do so at 5 weeks, before her death, she's still alive in spite of whatever other health issues she had.

She didn’t have preeclampsia. Her HTN was preexisting. Her highest recorded blood pressure was in October, well before she could have had preeclampsia. They may have labeled it as preeclampsia, but it was inaccurate.

 

[BeardedVol]

Yes, it’s obviously murder. There’s no dog whistle here. If you support the killing of a healthy 3rd trimester baby how is that anything other than murder?

“His mom and doctor wanted to kill him”, in your mind that justifies the taking of another human life?



No she did. She was obese. She had uncontrolled hypertension. She had uncontrolled diabetes. Those things killed her and none of those were caused by her pregnancy. That’s why they were all present at 5 weeks.



She was high risk because of her own poor health and failed to take adequate steps to prevent pregnancy. The pregnancy did not kill her.

So if you have a pregnant mother with 3 other kids at home whose life is in danger, you'd force her to die to save a third trimester child?

If you have a 13 who was raped and impregnated by her father and authorities don't find out until the third trimester, you'd force that girl to carry her father's child to term?

Jesus, you guys truly have let the crutch of your religious beliefs take you to some horrendous places as human beings.

All of that is moot anyway in this case, because Mrs. Walker wasn't in the third trimester when she requested to terminate her high risk pregnancy, she was 5 weeks pregnant.

She didn't die from being obese. She died, from preeclamsia because she was forced to carry a high risk pregnancy to term by the state of Texas.

 

[BeardedVol]

She didn’t have preeclampsia. Her HTN was preexisting. Her highest recorded blood pressure was in October, well before she could have had preeclampsia. They may have labeled it as preeclampsia, but it was inaccurate.

Repeating the lie will not make it true.

 

[Vol8188]

So if you have a pregnant mother with 3 other kids at home whose life is in danger, you'd force her to die to save a third trimester child?

You would just deliver the child, genius. Why would you abort a 3rd trimester baby?

Why do you refuse to answer my question? It should be simple.
How is it not murder if a woman decided to have her doctor abort her viable 9 month baby?

If you have a 13 who was raped and impregnated by her father and authorities don't find out until the third trimester, you'd force that girl to carry her father's child to term?

She’s already carried it. That part is done. Just deliver.

Jesus, you guys truly have let the crutch of your religious beliefs take you to some horrendous places as human beings.

You’re the only one who has brought up religion. I don’t need religion to tell me it’s wrong to kill a baby. You should question why your morality allows it.

All of that is moot anyway in this case, because Mrs. Walker wasn't in the third trimester when she requested to terminate her high risk pregnancy, she was 5 weeks pregnant.

And none of her issues were from her pregnancy as noted numerous times in her chart.

She didn't die from being obese. She died, from preeclamsia because she was forced to carry a high risk pregnancy to term by the state of Texas.

View attachment 790933

1. Seizures isn’t preeclampsia. You should really learn these terms. Seizures is eclampsia. Yet she wasn’t diagnosed with that because she was having even higher blood pressure and seizures prior to 20 weeks. Meaning: she did not die from preeclampsia.

She’s high risk because she’s fat. You think we should genocide all fat babies?