New York City

[luthervol]

I agree that an educated society is better than a non-educated society. Shouldn't public education be better than the society it's educating and not mirroring it's flaws?

It is better, but you're educated enough to know that they are intertwined and inseparable.

The political culture has devolved to the point where public education is far more reactionary to vocal extremes than ever before.

 

[luthervol]

Many maybe not all would say society has gotten worse since public education has increased scale. Now, we have to find cause and effect let alone determine what is "better". More plastic junk, sure. Better life, not so sure about all that.

When did public education increase scale? What does that mean?

 

[LSU-SIU]

When did public education increase scale? What does that mean?

Well, its kind of generalization comment i.e. spending, amount of resources, etc.

Society doesn't appear to have gotten better, people actually seem pretty miserable. Like I said, without defining what we are talking about its kind of just lying to ourselves, furthermore we need cause and effect.

 

[Majors]

The same as people choosing to be stupid isn't a failure of the Public Education System.

And that is my point.

Everything starts at home.

 

[luthervol]

Everything starts at home.

We agree!

 

[NashVol11]

I made it clear junior. The influx of immigration in the last 20 to 25 by bozos on the left and right without shared values and being groomed in failed institutions has led us to where we are. Mamdani cleaned up in this area.

It's also what the Biden Administration was doing the last 4 years allowing millions to flood the border and flying thousands over here from other continents.

Mamdani won lots of demographics, and I suspect the number you are referring to is him winning among people who haven't lived in NYC that long, whom you appear to have confused with undocumented immigrants (who, as a reminder, can't vote)

 

[BreatheUT]

Test scores have certainly declined.
As has our world ranking in life expectancy. (Health care system failure?)

The government needs that additional $1.5T for the greater good?

 

[BreatheUT]

Mamdani won lots of demographics, and I suspect the number you are referring to is him winning among people who haven't lived in NYC that long, whom you appear to have confused with undocumented immigrants (who, as a reminder, can't vote)

Did I say they are undocumented immigrants?

I don't use that language anyway to sugarcoat illegal aliens.

 

[NashVol11]

Did I say they are undocumented immigrants?

I don't use that language anyway to sugarcoat illegal aliens.

Can you cite the stat you're talking about? New to NYC doesn't mean immigrants that haven't assimilated, or whatever minority you were trying to blame

 

[BreatheUT]

Can you cite the stat you're talking about? New to NYC doesn't mean immigrants that haven't assimilated, or whatever minority you were trying to blame

I will look later. I'm bookmarked on some other things right now.

 

[EasternVol]

True, people choosing to be stupid is not the fault of the public education system. Normalizing their decision and catering to it IS the fault of the public education system.

The normalization and catering is all around and far from specific to the educational system.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Chinese Aide to Top Democrats Owned Mansion And Ferrari On $144k Salary... Now Prosecutors Make Terrifying Claim About Where Her Cash Came From​

A former top aide to New York Governor Kathy Hochul enjoyed a life of luxury because she was an undeclared agent for China, federal prosecutors have claimed.


Linda Sun, 41, is accused of acting as an unregistered operative for the Chinese Communist Party and using her position to influence Hochul and ex-Governor Andrew Cuomo into actions favorable to Beijing.

Sun earned a government salary of $145,000, but was also receiving millions of dollars from side deals arranged by Chinese officials, prosecutors told her trial Monday.

She and her husband Chris Hu used cash to purchase a $3.6 million mansion in Long Island, $1.9 million condo in Hawaii and a 2024 Ferrari Roma, which sells for at least $243,300, the Wall Street Journal reported.

Sun allegedly indulged in Nanjing-style salted duck dinners prepared by the Chinese consulate chef and was regularly acquainted with Communist Party insiders.

She made frequent visits back to China and even celebrated the Communist Party's 70th year in power at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing, the court heard.

Prosecutors allege Sun received funds from China, which were then siphoned through Hu's businesses. The couple are also accused of generating $2.3 million in kickbacks on personal-protection equipment imports during the Covid-19 pandemic.

Sun is charged with violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act, visa fraud, bank fraud and money laundering. She denies all wrongdoing.



Linda Sun, 41, (pictured) is accused of acting as an unregistered operative for the Chinese Communist Party while in working in roles alongside New York Governor Kathy Hochul and former Mayor Andrew Cuomo


The couple are also accused of using Chinese funds to purchase a 2024 Ferrari Roma, (file photo) which sells for at least $243,300

Sun, who joined Cuomo's staff in 2012, is standing trial this week in connection to the offenses.

Democrats' aide had lavish life paid for by China, prosecutors say

Linda Sun, 41, is accused of acting as an unregistered operative for the Chinese Communist Party who compelled Kathy Hochul and Andrew Cuomo to take actions that were favorable to Beijing .

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[allstar34]

Can you cite the stat you're talking about? New to NYC doesn't mean immigrants that haven't assimilated, or whatever minority you were trying to blame

What the data say​

• According to the city’s Comptroller’s office, in 2022 they “estimate that approximately 400,000 NYC residents were likely undocumented, excluding those in group-quarters (e.g., shelters). With more than 200,000 asylum seekers receiving shelter at some point since 2022, and nearly 60,000 currently in City shelters, the report says the undocumented population in the City “likely exceeds 500,000.” NYC Comptroller+1
• Another source (Center for Migration Studies) gives an estimate for the entire State of New York: about 836,000 unauthorized immigrants. migrationpolicy.org
• A recent article from the City’s media (“Gothamist”) reports that in 2022 the City’s undocumented‐immigrant population was estimated at ~412,000. Gothamist

 

[BreatheUT]

I will look later. I'm bookmarked on some other things right now.

Cuomo Beat Mamdani With Native New Yorkers: Election Results Breakdown​

Voters born in the city backed Cuomo, running as an independent, over the democratic socialist Zohran Mamdani by a margin of 49 percent to 38 percent, while Mamdani dominated among newer residents who have lived in New York for less than 10 years, winning 81 percent of that group’s votes.

Among those who have lived in the city for more than a decade but were not born there, the race was closer, with Mamdani leading 55 percent to 40 percent, according to NBC News' poll.

Cuomo beat Mamdani with native New Yorkers: Election results breakdown

Cuomo’s appeal was rooted in long-established communities, and Mamdani found support with recently arrived voters.

www.newsweek.com

 

[jp1]

As a proud product of the Tennessee Public education system; I wish with all my heart for public education to succeed
Of course when I was in the system in the 80‘s, I was being taught math, world history, civics, science, chemistry, physics, grammar, and perhaps most importantly, the ability to think critically and express myself coherently and succinctly in writing.
There was no time wasted on indoctrination in queer theory, drag queens, anticolonialistic theory, or DEI brainwashing.
A return to a classical education and basic life skills would do wonders for society.
It should tell you everyone need to know that even though we continue to pump more and more resources into „public education“ today, the results of what our children actually learn continues to drop further and further.
How would you define the success you wish for?

Think of the things you were taught in your home, versus what is taught (or more importantly not taught) in homes now. Thats were things get sideways in my opinion.

 

[NashVol11]

What the data say​

• According to the city’s Comptroller’s office, in 2022 they “estimate that approximately 400,000 NYC residents were likely undocumented, excluding those in group-quarters (e.g., shelters). With more than 200,000 asylum seekers receiving shelter at some point since 2022, and nearly 60,000 currently in City shelters, the report says the undocumented population in the City “likely exceeds 500,000.” NYC Comptroller+1
• Another source (Center for Migration Studies) gives an estimate for the entire State of New York: about 836,000 unauthorized immigrants. migrationpolicy.org
• A recent article from the City’s media (“Gothamist”) reports that in 2022 the City’s undocumented‐immigrant population was estimated at ~412,000. Gothamist

That was not the topic lol, he was saying Zohran "cleaned up" with immigrants who haven't assimilated

 

[LouderVol]

yes I'd mentioned that.

Did the socialist actions you described earlier happen in the UK when it was socialist? I don't recall any of it coming up in conversation with my old British colleagues.

I have never claimed them as an example of a socialist country. so you need to clarify what you want me to argue for you.

I guess you are referring to when they socialized their health care and coal, and maybe steel, I can't remember what all they did.

even in that it was still socialism and not communism. the owners were paid, workers were still paid, the coal was still "sold" via power generation at established rates.

 

[LouderVol]

I would say that Pinochet was a full blown authoritarian who made Chile into a capitalist nation

they didn't re-privatize everything, or even the important industries. Health care remained socialised as well as some mining/refining of metals. and didn't they keep flip flopping on the banks? he also played favorites with the re-privatization.

he definitely made them more-capitalist but I think its similar to the way China did with their economy. obviously Chile wasn't as successful with their hybrid approach.

 

[EasternVol]

I have never claimed them as an example of a socialist country. so you need to clarify what you want me to argue for you.

I guess you are referring to when they socialized their health care and coal, and maybe steel, I can't remember what all they did.

even in that it was still socialism and not communism. the owners were paid, workers were still paid, the coal was still "sold" via power generation at established rates.

In post 7587 you wrote:
socialism will dictate what economic mobility/equality you have. even to the point of impeding you. even to the point of actively taking away from you. at the very least the past owners of the means of production are having their private property stolen from them. the government tells you what you can have, and largely even what you can do.
I'd said that that wasn't socialism. I believe you disagreed. So I asked if the UK did that when they were under socialism.

 

[n_huffhines]

they didn't re-privatize everything, or even the important industries. Health care remained socialised as well as some mining/refining of metals. and didn't they keep flip flopping on the banks? he also played favorites with the re-privatization.

he definitely made them more-capitalist but I think its similar to the way China did with their economy. obviously Chile wasn't as successful with their hybrid approach.

Are your expectations unreasonable if you DQ him bc he didn't change everything? This is like the true capitalism purity test. You're never going to find it. We haven't privatized k-12 education, either. We're still capitalist.

Also, it was pretty successful. Chile has the 2nd strongest economy in all of Latin America and outranks China in real GDP per capita

 

[LouderVol]

In post 7587 you wrote:
socialism will dictate what economic mobility/equality you have. even to the point of impeding you. even to the point of actively taking away from you. at the very least the past owners of the means of production are having their private property stolen from them. the government tells you what you can have, and largely even what you can do.
I'd said that that wasn't socialism. I believe you disagreed. So I asked if the UK did that when they were under socialism.

again, I wouldn't claim the post war Brits as a socialist country. so I am not sure why you want me to argue a position I haven't made.

like most countries they definitely did some socialist things, and they are definitely "more" socialist than we are; but I don't think they are a particularly strong example of socialism.

Looking into it, it sounds like the coal mine owners were paid, but below market value, and under the threat of closure if they didn't. so that is a bit mixed, but still pretty socialist.

their health care is more centered on a single payer system, than the government owning everything. I don't think every doctor there is required to work for their health department. but I know they do have various government councils that make medical decisions in some cases. The parents wanting care for their baby in Trumps first term comes to mind. so again, mixed bag, but still pretty socialist.

outside of those two industries I don't know what else they have done. I know there were some issues they had with the EU that made them more socialist, but I haven't seen if they actually revoked those items. IIRC the EU was setting steel prices and production limits.

 

[LouderVol]

Are your expectations unreasonable if you DQ him bc he didn't change everything? This is like the true capitalism purity test. You're never going to find it. We haven't privatized k-12 education, either. We're still capitalist.

Also, it was pretty successful. Chile has the 2nd strongest economy in all of Latin America and outranks China in real GDP per capita

how did I DQ him? I said he made things more capitalist.

I think their economy stabilized after Pinochet, built off the changes he made. also the success of the economy is not based on what type of system, capitalism, socialism, communism, whatever, its under.

I am sure there are plenty of failed capitalist economies and succeeding socialist/communist economies.

the way this started was me asking a poster what capitalism we lived under that was failing us. because the items that are considered failures here in the states aren't beacons of capitalism. Interest rates are set by the Fed. Tariffs aren't socialist, but also aren't capitalism. Healthcare and the failure of ACA is government driven not market. I pointed out the high percentage of government costs in construction impacting affordability. public education is getting worse. I am sure some examples exist, but I can't think of major issues facing this country that aren't driven more by government involvement rather than market failure.

 

[n_huffhines]

how did I DQ him? I said he made things more capitalist.

I think their economy stabilized after Pinochet, built off the changes he made. also the success of the economy is not based on what type of system, capitalism, socialism, communism, whatever, its under.

I am sure there are plenty of failed capitalist economies and succeeding socialist/communist economies.

the way this started was me asking a poster what capitalism we lived under that was failing us. because the items that are considered failures here in the states aren't beacons of capitalism. Interest rates are set by the Fed. Tariffs aren't socialist, but also aren't capitalism. Healthcare and the failure of ACA is government driven not market. I pointed out the high percentage of government costs in construction impacting affordability. public education is getting worse. I am sure some examples exist, but I can't think of major issues facing this country that aren't driven more by government involvement rather than market failure.

We're dealing in murky waters, talking about market failures in a country where every industry involves government intervention. Suffice it to say, it's accepted by EVERY economist on the planet that the free market produces negative externalities all the time, everywhere. By definition, market failure is the failure to allocate resources efficiently and that's exactly what a negative externality is. So take the example of pollution. We regulate to prevent that negative externality. The regulation comes at a cost, but so does the pollution. For the left, it's easier to see the cost of the pollution and for the right, it's easier to see the cost of the regulation. Both sides are going to always fail to some degree.

I support the free market not because it produces the best results in every case, or because there is no such thing as market failure, but because in general it will produce the best results. The reason I believe that is it's just too damn hard to plan an economy, and past a certain point, the more planning (meaning actual intervention), the worse off we are. Pragmatically, we're never going to be truly 100% free market, or even close to that, so just always argue for freer markets because we'll never get "too free."

 

[LouderVol]

We're dealing in murky waters, talking about market failures in a country where every industry involves government intervention. Suffice it to say, it's accepted by EVERY economist on the planet that the free market produces negative externalities all the time, everywhere. By definition, market failure is the failure to allocate resources efficiently and that's exactly what a negative externality is. So take the example of pollution. We regulate to prevent that negative externality. The regulation comes at a cost, but so does the pollution. For the left, it's easier to see the cost of the pollution and for the right, it's easier to see the cost of the regulation. Both sides are going to always fail to some degree.

I support the free market not because it produces the best results in every case, or because there is no such thing as market failure, but because in general it will produce the best results. The reason I believe that is it's just too damn hard to plan an economy, and past a certain point, the more planning (meaning actual intervention), the worse off we are. Pragmatically, we're never going to be truly 100% free market, or even close to that, so just always argue for freer markets because we'll never get "too free."

yeah like I said before with the Constitutional Libertarian comment, I am not saying we have to be totally free to be capitalist. I will maintain that I think we would be over the 50% mark between true capitalism and true socialism, which is why I would say we aren't capitalist. especially with Trump.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Test scores have certainly declined.
As has our world ranking in life expectancy. (Health care system failure?)

Yup, glad we have Kennedy and MAHA to help that out. Food additives, diet, and big Pharma are killing us