Democratic Socialism - The Future of Our Country?

#28
#28
BigOrangeMojo said:
Social security is the biggest form of wealth redistribution on the planet today. Middle to higher earners pay in and get a negative ROIC while those who make less get subsidized with a return thay exceeds inflation and/or treasury note return...
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100% agreed. Especially oppose SS disability aspect. Massive fraud and many of the ones who are legit disabled, are disabled due to their own horrific choices.

“I smoked a lot of rocks. Now I’m on dialysis and you have to pay for my existence”.
 
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#30
#30
Vol8188 said:
100% agreed. Especially oppose SS disability aspect. Massive fraud and many of the ones who are legit disabled, are disabled due to their own horrific choices.

“I smoked a lot of rocks. Now I’m on dialysis and you have to pay for my existence”.
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Hey!!!! As a dialysis patient I take offence to that characterization....nah just kidding..but mine wasn't my faults
 
#31
#31
MontyPython said:
😜

Yar. God forbid someone construct a reasonably-construed post.

Gather you're MAGA and despise free-thinking.
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I'm all for free thinking..let me know when you do it and I'll comment accordingly but why respond to your AI posts when I can just use AI myself and have a better faith convo even tho you and AI both use the same sources.
 
#32
#32
whodeycin85 said:
I'm all for free thinking..let me know when you do it and I'll comment accordingly but why respond to your AI posts when I can just use AI myself and have a better faith convo even tho you and AI both use the same sources.
Click to expand...

Mkay Junior Bubba. Anytime you'd like to verbally spar, lemme know.
 
#34
#34
MontyPython said:
"Socialism" largely has a dirty reputation here in the US. But is it really so bad and are we perhaps actually pre-conditioned to move towards a Democratic Socialist nation-state someday?
Click to expand...

Yes. No
MontyPython said:
With the election of Zohran Mamdani (spellcheck... got it), an avowed Democratic Socialist, as the new NYC mayor, Trump's head clearly just about exploded - so now he's lobbing all sorts of threats in which the Feds can/could harm NYC (the largest city in our country). Classy Donald as always.
Click to expand...

Zohran has stated the goal of “democratic socialism” is “to seize means of production”. Fresh new grown face on the same horrific ideas that don’t work.

MontyPython said:
Anyway, I pose this question: What's so "wrong" about Democratic Socialism?
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“Seize the means of production”. The goal of socialism remains to be total control, just incrementally. Because according to Zohran “people aren’t ready”. So they do it incrementally

MontyPython said:
Its basic premise is as follows: Strong welfare states, high taxes, and extensive public services (e.g., universal healthcare, free education, strong unions), achieved through democratic elections—not full state ownership of production (as in classic socialism).
Click to expand...

It is classic socialism. Your own example of this philosophy admits he wishes to seizes the means of production.

The premise you laid out doesn’t actually work. So you’re left with picking a side. Your country either continues to move further towards totalitarianism by increasing state control (Mamjihadi is already talking about seizing property from landlords) in an effort to make their bad policies work. Or you do like many of the countries you listed and continually pull back the social safety nets and taxes in order to stay afloat.
MontyPython said:
The haves versus the have-nots here in our country... a recipe for hate, distrust and crime.
Click to expand...

The type of government policies you’re defending create the disparity.

MontyPython said:
And why shouldn't we have universal healthcare - are you more deserving of *living* than someone who has less money than you?
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Because I prefer having great healthcare.

MontyPython said:
Same with education... wouldn't our country be better with *smarter* people in general? Yes, methinks.
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You’re falsely assuming government to be the best way to provide this service, and falsely conflating that with the idea that government would be better with all things. While simultaneously trying to inform us that all things isn’t the goal.

MontyPython said:
Now I get it: Your gut reaction is HIGHER TAXES... GO F YOURSELF, MP. I'm with you... kind of.
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Not for me. It’s more so higher taxes for those making 60k or less. Those countries don’t “tax the rich” more than us. It’s their lower and middle class who they tax.

MontyPython said:
So I'm a small business owner. I feel like I work harder than your average Joe... I'm out there hustling like this Saturday morning... meeting up with potential clients and doing estimates. Why should I pay more taxes and how would this motivate me to work harder? I get it.
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Higher taxes for you so the graffiti artist in NY who works one day a week teaching piano lessons can live a better life. Seems reasonable.

MontyPython said:
But here's the thing... it's not just all about money. It's about lifestyle, too. It's about living in a society that fosters HAPPINESS, right?
Click to expand...

Greater dependence on government doesn’t lead to greater happiness.

MontyPython said:
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Pretty sure somebody said that back in the day.

Take a look at the Top-10 "Happiest Countries". I've been to several of them. In fact, my mom was from one of them.
Top 10 happiest countries:
  1. Finland
  2. Denmark
  3. Iceland
  4. Sweden
  5. Israel
  6. Netherlands
  7. Norway
  8. Luxembourg
  9. Switzerland
  10. Australia
Democratic Socialist countries dominate, but not exclusively—and not because of socialism per se. Key drivers: social trust, low corruption, freedom, GDP/capita, healthy life expectancy—not welfare spending alone.
Click to expand...

That’s what you took from that list? Those are some of the countries with the absolute highest economic freedom. Meanwhile you’re championing candidates who openly oppose that.

MontyPython said:
In the grand scheme of things, our big cities and the left-coast generally lead trends in our economy and our social policies.
Click to expand...

That’s simply not true. For example the trans nonsense the left tried has been massively rejected by the country.

MontyPython said:
For all you California bashers, don't forget that if California were its own independent country, it'd have the 4th largest economy in the world.
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Yeah, it’s a big state….

MontyPython said:
Fact. Regardless, with NYC electing a socialist, it begs the question: Are we moving in that direction? And for those here diametrically opposed to all things socialist, it begs the question: why?
Click to expand...

Greater government control.

MontyPython said:
And just one more thing... if you are morally opposed to socialism, I'm happy to receive your Social Security Benefits directly (DING DING DING... SOCIALISM). Just lemme know.
Click to expand...

You think it’s morally wrong for me to get back a small portion of what the government stole from me? Weird.
 
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#36
#36
MontyPython said:
"Socialism" largely has a dirty reputation here in the US. But is it really so bad and are we perhaps actually pre-conditioned to move towards a Democratic Socialist nation-state someday?

With the election of Zohran Mamdani (spellcheck... got it), an avowed Democratic Socialist, as the new NYC mayor, Trump's head clearly just about exploded - so now he's lobbing all sorts of threats in which the Feds can/could harm NYC (the largest city in our country). Classy Donald as always.

Anyway, I pose this question: What's so "wrong" about Democratic Socialism? Its basic premise is as follows: Strong welfare states, high taxes, and extensive public services (e.g., universal healthcare, free education, strong unions), achieved through democratic elections—not full state ownership of production (as in classic socialism).

The haves versus the have-nots here in our country... a recipe for hate, distrust and crime. And why shouldn't we have universal healthcare - are you more deserving of *living* than someone who has less money than you? Same with education... wouldn't our country be better with *smarter* people in general? Yes, methinks.

Now I get it: Your gut reaction is HIGHER TAXES... GO F YOURSELF, MP. I'm with you... kind of.

So I'm a small business owner. I feel like I work harder than your average Joe... I'm out there hustling like this Saturday morning... meeting up with potential clients and doing estimates. Why should I pay more taxes and how would this motivate me to work harder? I get it.

But here's the thing... it's not just all about money. It's about lifestyle, too. It's about living in a society that fosters HAPPINESS, right?

"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Pretty sure somebody said that back in the day.

Take a look at the Top-10 "Happiest Countries". I've been to several of them. In fact, my mom was from one of them.
Top 10 happiest countries:
  1. Finland
  2. Denmark
  3. Iceland
  4. Sweden
  5. Israel
  6. Netherlands
  7. Norway
  8. Luxembourg
  9. Switzerland
  10. Australia
Democratic Socialist countries dominate, but not exclusively—and not because of socialism per se. Key drivers: social trust, low corruption, freedom, GDP/capita, healthy life expectancy—not welfare spending alone.

In the grand scheme of things, our big cities and the left-coast generally lead trends in our economy and our social policies. For all you California bashers, don't forget that if California were its own independent country, it'd have the 4th largest economy in the world. Fact. Regardless, with NYC electing a socialist, it begs the question: Are we moving in that direction? And for those here diametrically opposed to all things socialist, it begs the question: why?

And just one more thing... if you are morally opposed to socialism, I'm happy to receive your Social Security Benefits directly (DING DING DING... SOCIALISM). Just lemme know.
Click to expand...
Roofer?
 
#37
#37
BigOrangeMojo said:
Social security is the biggest form of wealth redistribution on the planet today. Middle to higher earners pay in and get a negative ROIC while those who make less get subsidized with a return thay exceeds inflation and/or treasury note return...
Click to expand...

IDK how it shakes out right now, but back in the day Milton Friedman was saying it was redistribution from blue collar to white collar. If you were blue-collar, you worked from 18 to 65 and then died at 72 after drawing for a few short years. White collar dudes are working 25-60 and drawing into their late 80s/90s.

Edit: looks like somewhere along the line they made changes to SS to correct this.
 
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#38
#38
Vol8188 said:
Yes. No


Zohran has stated the goal of “democratic socialism” is “to seize means of production”. Fresh new grown face on the same horrific ideas that don’t work.



“Seize the means of production”. The goal of socialism remains to be total control, just incrementally. Because according to Zohran “people aren’t ready”. So they do it incrementally



It is classic socialism. Your own example of this philosophy admits he wishes to seizes the means of production.

The premise you laid out doesn’t actually work. So you’re left with picking a side. Your country either continues to move further towards totalitarianism by increasing state control (Mamjihadi is already talking about seizing property from landlords) in an effort to make their bad policies work. Or you do like many of the countries you listed and continually pull back the social safety nets and taxes in order to stay afloat.


The type of government policies you’re defending create the disparity.



Because I prefer having great healthcare.



You’re falsely assuming government to be the best way to provide this service, and falsely conflating that with the idea that government would be better with all things. While simultaneously trying to inform us that all things isn’t the goal.



Not for me. It’s more so higher taxes for those making 60k or less. Those countries don’t “tax the rich” more than us. It’s their lower and middle class who they tax.



Higher taxes for you so the graffiti artist in NY who works one day a week teaching piano lessons can live a better life. Seems reasonable.



Greater dependence on government doesn’t lead to greater happiness.



That’s what you took from that list? Those are some of the countries with the absolute highest economic freedom. Meanwhile you’re championing candidates who openly oppose that.



That’s simply not true. For example the trans nonsense the left tried has been massively rejected by the country.



Yeah, it’s a big state….



Greater government control.



You think it’s morally wrong for me to get back a small portion of what the government stole from me? Weird.
Click to expand...
I feel (dramatic pause)... parse-snipped.

Yeah, baby!

You make some valid points I give you that. I'm raising the issue. Some of the things you say I definitely disagree with and are actually wrong I believe but thanks for responding.
 
#43
#43
We are currently in a Democratic Socialist political system supported by a capitalistic economic system.
I want to reverse that trend of DS. Others want to hasten it. If you want it, fund it privately. No one is stopping anyone from pooling their resources to make others secure and "happy".
 
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#44
#44
MontyPython said:
I feel (dramatic pause)... parse-snipped.

Yeah, baby!

You make some valid points I give you that. I'm raising the issue. Some of the things you say I definitely disagree with and are actually wrong I believe but thanks for responding.
Click to expand...

Which do you believe to be wrong
 
#45
#45
McDad said:
We are currently in a Democratic Socialist political system supported by a capitalistic economic system.
I want to reverse that trend of DS. Others want to hasten it. If you want it, fund it privately. No one is stopping anyone from pooling their resources to make others secure and "happy".
Click to expand...
Let’s all move to McDadistan
 
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#47
#47
McDad said:
We are currently in a Democratic Socialist political system supported by a capitalistic economic system.
Click to expand...

Agree, kind of. It's hard to call our economic system completely capitalist as long as "too big to fail" corporations and government subsidies for energy, healthcare, agricultural and tech companies exist. And that doesn't even include the biggest government beneficiaries of them all, the military contractors. Hell, the government used the scamdemic to prop up companies like Walmart, Amazon, and Home Depot while driving Lord knows how many smaller companies out of business.
 
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#48
#48
McDad said:
We are currently in a Democratic Socialist political system supported by a capitalistic economic system.
I want to reverse that trend of DS. Others want to hasten it. If you want it, fund it privately. No one is stopping anyone from pooling their resources to make others secure and "happy".
Click to expand...

You don’t believe in the luther philosophy? “I’ll gladly pay a lot more for more government but only if everyone else has to. I won’t do it voluntarily.”
 
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#49
#49
sami said:
Agree, kind of. It's hard to call our economic system completely capitalist as long as "too big to fail" corporations and government subsidies for energy, healthcare, agricultural and tech companies exist. And that doesn't even include the biggest government beneficiaries of them all, the military contractors. Hell, the government used the scamdemic to prop up companies like Walmart, Amazon, and Home Depot while driving Lord knows how many smaller companies out of business.
Click to expand...
That's why I mentioned the two systems we live in. "Too big to fail" (great marketing and PR, by the way) was an egregious moment when the capitalists appealed to the socialists for help.
 
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#50
#50
C-south said:
You don’t believe in the luther philosophy? “I’ll gladly pay a lot more for more government but only if everyone else has to. I won’t do it voluntarily.”
Click to expand...
I don't believe in any philosophy espoused by someone unwilling to put their money where their mouth is.
 
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