New York City

#7,302
#7,302
luthervol said:
That's like saying Coach Y just dropped the act to show that no coaches wanted to shake hands, complement the other team, and take the blame off their own players.

That coach would rightfully be universally vilified.

Civility is the combination of a performance and action.

trump is horrendously despicable and deserves to be vilified.
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the difference is, some coaches are actually civil. none of the politicians are. they are all the coaches who will run up the score, keeping their 1s in, calling timeouts at the end of a blowout to get their offense back on the field. putting bounties on the other team. and dog cussing his opponents in the locker room. you give it all a pass because they shake hands afterwards. I am simply saying that one act doesn't erase the rest.

well Biden might have been, too clueless to really have an alternate reasoning. the people around him certainly did, but I don't want to take away from him. I kinda put W in the same category.

sure, not saying Trump isn't without blame, just pointing out if you were actually consistent and intellectually honest, you would realize that far more politicians deserve far more vilification than you give them. you tend to act like Trump is at 100 on your spectrum, while the rest of them are hanging out in the 30s or 40s. I am saying Trump is in the upper 90s with the rest being in the upper 80s.
 
#7,303
#7,303
NashVol11 said:
As I've said in this very thread before, I don't care at all what Trump said 5 years before running for office
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never commented on "grab em by the *"? or any of his divorces? or his failings as a casino owner, or other businesses? Never brought up his lawsuits as a private businessman?

if so good for you, but that makes you a unicorn.
 
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#7,304
#7,304
NashVol11 said:
Did Zohran say any of those things, yes or no? One word answer will suffice
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Hitler never actually said „kill the Jews“ either but course we all know he did do just that.
Monsters very rarely spell out their programs specifically. But a thoughtful man can read between the lines.
 
#7,306
#7,306
NashVol11 said:
There isn't a larger response. The answer is no. "Communism" and "seizing the means of production" aren't part of his platform, it's just 20 different ways of saying a 5-year-old comment is super scary
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government owned grocery stores, and government controlled housing, free/expanded public transportation, isn't exactly the free market approach.

pretty sure at least some of his eat the rich proposals are newer than 5 years ago.

all of those provide a bit of context to why some comments from 5 years ago are relevant today.
 
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#7,307
OrangeTsar said:
Hitler never actually said „kill the Jews“ either but course we all know he did do just that.
Monsters very rarely spell out their programs specifically. But a thoughtful man can read between the lines.
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Nash doesn't say he wants men to beat up women but he does loves the men beating up the women boxers.
 
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#7,310
#7,310
LouderVol said:
government owned grocery stores,
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one city-owned store in each borough, IIRC in food deserts*
LouderVol said:
and government controlled housing,
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??? You mean rent-controlled apartments, which have existed in NYC forever?
LouderVol said:
free/expanded public transportation, isn't exactly the free market approach.

pretty sure at least some of his eat the rich proposals are newer than 5 years ago.

all of those provide a bit of context to why some comments from 5 years ago are relevant today.
Click to expand...
None of those things even remotely raise concerns about "seizing the means of production" and making NYC communist or whatever, it's the same as the people who took the "caliphate" jokes seriously because they are paranoid enough to think it's a real possibility
 
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#7,311
LouderVol said:
never commented on "grab em by the *"? or any of his divorces? or his failings as a casino owner, or other businesses? Never brought up his lawsuits as a private businessman?

if so good for you, but that makes you a unicorn.
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Honestly no. Only one that would even be a possibility is the first one, but I didn't think so and just searched it
 
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#7,312
LSU-SIU said:
What is his platform?
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I can summarize it pretty simply….
„Every problem in your life is someone else‘s fault so you need revenge on anyone who has more than you do.“
Same song and dance going all the way back to the Athenian tyrants and the Gracchi Brothers in the late Roman Republic.
It always ends the same.
 
#7,313
#7,313
NashVol11 said:
one city-owned store in each borough, IIRC in food deserts*
NashVol11 said:
one city-owned store in each borough, IIRC in food deserts*

??? You mean rent-controlled apartments, which have existed in NYC forever?

None of those things even remotely raise concerns about "seizing the means of production" and making NYC communist or whatever, it's the same as the people who took the "caliphate" jokes seriously because they are paranoid enough to think it's a real possibility
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Sounds like an excellent beginning to a five year plan Kommrade.
You have nothing to lose but your chains!!!!
 
#7,314
#7,314
NashVol11 said:
one city-owned store in each borough, IIRC in food deserts*

??? You mean rent-controlled apartments, which have existed in NYC forever?

None of those things even remotely raise concerns about "seizing the means of production" and making NYC communist or whatever, it's the same as the people who took the "caliphate" jokes seriously because they are paranoid enough to think it's a real possibility
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just because it existed before doesn't make it less socialist. and if he wants to expand the programs supporting rent control then those are on him, regardless of some predating him.

except none of the caliphate stuff came from Mamdani, all of these things came from Mamdani. so there is a good bit more room to criticize Mamdani on them, even if they don't reach full blown Hammer and Sickle.
 
#7,317
#7,317
OrangeTsar said:
Hitler never actually said „kill the Jews“ either but course we all know he did do just that.
Monsters very rarely spell out their programs specifically. But a thoughtful man can read between the lines.
Click to expand...
With people in general and politicians in particular it's dubious business to go all in on what their intentions claim to be openly...especially if put in a position of authority. (note how inclusive I am with this observation)
 
#7,318
#7,318
NashVol11 said:
one city-owned store in each borough, IIRC in food deserts*

??? You mean rent-controlled apartments, which have existed in NYC forever?

None of those things even remotely raise concerns about "seizing the means of production" and making NYC communist or whatever, it's the same as the people who took the "caliphate" jokes seriously because they are paranoid enough to think it's a real possibility
Click to expand...

Does the government currently own those rent controlled apartments? He very clearly states he intends on owning the property.

If his grocery stores are successful, you don’t believe he will expand them?

At a minimum you have to accept 5 years ago he supported communism. If you think that’s no longer the case, you should be able to provide evidence for why you believe that.

The problem is, that evidence does not exist. Meaning, it’s unlikely he’s changed.
 
#7,319
#7,319
hndog609 said:
With people in general and politicians in particular it's dubious business to go all in on what their intentions claim to be openly...especially if put in a position of authority. (note how inclusive I am with this observation)
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As much as I dislike Trump personally, I will give him kuddos for one thing in particular, he is the first politician in my lifetime to actually honestly say what he intents to do and then to follow through with it.
I think that is a large part of his appeal.
 
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#7,320
#7,320
LouderVol said:
government owned grocery stores, and government controlled housing, free/expanded public transportation, isn't exactly the free market approach.

pretty sure at least some of his eat the rich proposals are newer than 5 years ago.

all of those provide a bit of context to why some comments from 5 years ago are relevant today.
Click to expand...

Not just “government controlled housing”. He wants to own the housing.

He’s also never in any way said anything you could remotely associate with being pro capitalism. Rather he calls himself a socialist and admits the goal of socialism is to seize the means of production
 
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#7,322
#7,322
LouderVol said:
the difference is, some coaches are actually civil. none of the politicians are. they are all the coaches who will run up the score, keeping their 1s in, calling timeouts at the end of a blowout to get their offense back on the field. putting bounties on the other team. and dog cussing his opponents in the locker room. you give it all a pass because they shake hands afterwards. I am simply saying that one act doesn't erase the rest.

well Biden might have been, too clueless to really have an alternate reasoning. the people around him certainly did, but I don't want to take away from him. I kinda put W in the same category.

sure, not saying Trump isn't without blame, just pointing out if you were actually consistent and intellectually honest, you would realize that far more politicians deserve far more vilification than you give them. you tend to act like Trump is at 100 on your spectrum, while the rest of them are hanging out in the 30s or 40s. I am saying Trump is in the upper 90s with the rest being in the upper 80s.
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I agree with a lot of what you said

but

I categorically reject the notion that all politicians are equally bad.

There is a reason why I talked about "continuums" from day one in the PF.

I knew the trump angle was going to be (had to be) "they all suck" "they all lie".

The only way any of this works is if voters say "I'm voting for whoever sucks least".....especially in the primaries.
 
#7,324
#7,324
luthervol said:
I agree with a lot of what you said

but

I categorically reject the notion that all politicians are equally bad.

There is a reason why I talked about "continuums" from day one in the PF.

I knew the trump angle was going to be (had to be) "they all suck" "they all lie".

The only way any of this works is if voters say "I'm voting for whoever sucks least".....especially in the primaries.
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you mean exactly what you do? Anybody but Trump is literally just picking who ever sucks less.

I didn't say they were equally bad. I put trump as my worst, I just don't have him as "Literally Hitler" which puts me in the MAGA category.

I have said it all along Trump is a symptom, not the disease, you just ignore all the other symptoms, so it makes Trump look worse than he is.
 
#7,325
#7,325
LouderVol said:
you mean exactly what you do? Anybody but Trump is literally just picking who ever sucks less.
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The only alternatives are not voting or voting for whoever sucks most
LouderVol said:
I didn't say they were equally bad. I put trump as my worst, I just don't have him as "Literally Hitler" which puts me in the MAGA category.
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True......
LouderVol said:
I have said it all along Trump is a symptom, not the disease, you just ignore all the other symptoms, so it makes Trump look worse than he is.
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trumpism is a manifestation of the disease. (sort of like......it's spread to your bladder)
 
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