Before Heupel (A Program Assessment)

#1
VOLociraptorr

VOLociraptorr

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#1
1. Our last 10 win season was 2007

2. Derek Dooley averaged 5 wins a season
-Butch 6.8
-Pruitt 5.33

3. We were coming of a WINLESS SEC season and worst season in program history

4. Many nationally said we were dead

5. Hadn't beaten Bama since '06

Look, I'm not happy about this season ever but so far his worst season has been better than The best seasons of many post Fulmer coaches

***I think many of us who have a passion for Tennessee think that kids will just automatically come here. We are finally getting over the stain of a bad decade and a half. Recruiting is picking up and things are bright***

Leave Heupel alone this season . He has earned a lot of goodwill. Let's see what happens this offseason
 
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#2
#2
It’s weird to say but TN is extremely similar to Clemson when Dabo took over. I think his first 7 seasons we was a 5,6,7 win guy just building the program. Then he had the 6 or 7 year run there where they could have won a National championship any year.

The point being it took him 8 years or whatever to get there. We are in year 5 of Heupel. He’s ahead of schedule. (Dabo killed his program bc of his unwillingness to play the transfer and NIL game. CJH won’t do that) lock Heupel down forever and year 7-17 will be the best we’ve ever had.
 
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#3
#3
They said:
It’s weird to say but TN is extremely similar to Clemson when Dabo took over. I think his first 7 seasons we was a 5,6,7 win guy just building the program. Then he had the 6 or 7 year run there where they could have won a National championship any year.

The point being it took him 8 years or whatever to get there. We are in year 5 of Heupel. He’s ahead of schedule. (Dabo killed his program bc of his unwillingness to play the transfer and NIL game. CJH won’t do that) lock Heupel down forever and year 7-17 will be the best we’ve ever had.
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We’re not getting an ACC schedule.
 
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#5
#5
morristown vol said:
After he told Nico to hit the door i supported him 100 percent even if met a rough year.The girls come out after every loss.
Maybe they should go coach a pee wee football team and go undefeated every year and ever make a mistake.
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I’ll fire a guy if you’ll buy my season tickets and make an annual donation. I don’t put up with people who no show, either. I work M-F and sometimes on weekends. Heck of a deal.
 
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#6
#6
VOLociraptorr said:
1. Our last 10 win season was 2007

2. Derek Dooley averaged 5 wins a season
-Butch 6.8
-Pruitt 5.33

3. We were coming of a WINLESS SEC season and worst season in program history

4. Many nationally said we were dead

5. Hadn't beaten Bama since '06

Look, I'm not happy about this season ever but so far his worst season has been better than The best seasons of many post Fulmer coaches

***I think many of us who have a passion for Tennessee think that kids will just automatically come here. We are finally getting over the stain of a bad decade and a half. Recruiting is picking up and things are bright***

Leave Heupel alone this season . He has earned a lot of goodwill. Let's see what happens this offseason
Click to expand...
I very much agree, but I think the defensiveness with some fans is a bit over the top. It's like if some dare to criticize JH they're "nutjobs that want him fired"

Obviously it would be crazy to fire Josh. But he's far from being above criticism this season. Odd decisions with the clock, odd play calls in crucial situations, declining a 3rd down penalty in FG range and several other things are head scratchers.

We're now at the half decade point with Josh and I think there are legit things to ponder and legit concerns that I'm anxious to see if he addresses.

Like I often wonder...what would his record look like if Milton never got hurt? If Nico hadn't transferred? Why have we slowed the offense down to the point it's starting to look like a Butch Jones offense?

I've honestly moved on from worrying about a national championship. I'm in my early 50s and I don't expect to see another in my lifetime. We've won two in the last 65 years.

How many years are we content without a conference championship? We're at 27 total and 5 with Josh.

Do you retain him past the 10 year mark if you're still winning 9 games but have zero SEC titles? People say Josh may be "Our Mark Richt" but Mark won two SEC titles in his first 4 seasons.

One thing I'm concerned about with his staff....what units on this team are functioning at a high level? Are any units overachieving? How many units are overachieving vs underachieving?

I think all these things are legit topics of conversation.

I know he can't just turn over his whole staff, but if he doesn't make some upgrades this off-season, I think a lot will start to lose some faith in him.
 
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#7
#7
They said:
It’s weird to say but TN is extremely similar to Clemson when Dabo took over. I think his first 7 seasons we was a 5,6,7 win guy just building the program. Then he had the 6 or 7 year run there where they could have won a National championship any year.

The point being it took him 8 years or whatever to get there. We are in year 5 of Heupel. He’s ahead of schedule. (Dabo killed his program bc of his unwillingness to play the transfer and NIL game. CJH won’t do that) lock Heupel down forever and year 7-17 will be the best we’ve ever had.
Click to expand...
I think Dabo had really good coordinators who are now HC’s.
 
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#9
#9
They said:
It’s weird to say but TN is extremely similar to Clemson when Dabo took over. I think his first 7 seasons we was a 5,6,7 win guy just building the program. Then he had the 6 or 7 year run there where they could have won a National championship any year.

The point being it took him 8 years or whatever to get there. We are in year 5 of Heupel. He’s ahead of schedule. (Dabo killed his program bc of his unwillingness to play the transfer and NIL game. CJH won’t do that) lock Heupel down forever and year 7-17 will be the best we’ve ever had.
Click to expand...

Stop it. It only took Dabo 4 seasons to win 10 games. It did not take him 8 years to get rolling

We have to stop using the pre Heupel days or "the state of the program he took over" as the a measuring stick. To his very own credit and ability, he elevated the program in only 26 games. He deserves all the riches that come with that. But with elevating a program and raising expectations that quickly, he also has to deal with the pressure that comes with it.

Once he had that 2022 season, expectations were raised.

This has been his worst coaching job in his 5 years here. Not because of talent or what's on the field, but just penalties (undisciplined) and game management decisions with timeouts and clock and end of halves.

Heupel easily deserves to be here another 2 seasons. People can criticize without wanting to run the guy off.

But are we seriously about to go from 30-9 run to now, "Heupel needs another 2-3 seasons to get there"????
 
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#10
#10
I do not advocate for Heuple's firing at this point, thats dumb. I am a bit uneasy that Heuple is pulling a Fulmer with his loyalty to his coaching staff. After this season its time for him reevaluate his entire staff, especially the D, and make the necessary changes.

If he does not, then I think we all can start being concerned because we have seen this movie before and know how it ends.
 
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#11
#11
THEONLYTENISEE said:
I think Dabo had really good coordinators who are now HC’s.
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Tony Elliot is the only guy I would have taken over Heupel during that coaching search.
He has Virginia rolling - they will be the new Clemson of the ACC very shortly.

Back to the OP though - YES, I am extremely grateful and very happy with the program now versus the 15 or so years prior to CJH.
I think due to that turn around, he has earned some capital and his seat is safe for another year or two.
 
#12
#12
Some VN fans are thinking championship or bust. As the OP says, we need to look at the history. Before Heupel, we were a laughing stock. Now that we’ve gained a little respectability, they are ready to jump to the head of the line. If we fire the best coach we’ve had in 20 years, we will look like fools, as a number of pundits have said. Then, which coach do you think will want to come to Tennessee?
I do think Heupel may want to do some hard thinking about the assistants, but I the real issue this year has been more about having enough depth and overall talent. Our offensive line was not up to the task, and nothing more needs to be said about the defensive backs. Yes, there have been some snafus in game and clock management, but with a little more talent, those games were winnable, even with the mistakes.
 
#13
#13
They said:
It’s weird to say but TN is extremely similar to Clemson when Dabo took over. I think his first 7 seasons we was a 5,6,7 win guy just building the program. Then he had the 6 or 7 year run there where they could have won a National championship any year.

The point being it took him 8 years or whatever to get there. We are in year 5 of Heupel. He’s ahead of schedule. (Dabo killed his program bc of his unwillingness to play the transfer and NIL game. CJH won’t do that) lock Heupel down forever and year 7-17 will be the best we’ve ever had.
Click to expand...
I have posted this before - - Seated at a luncheon with newly hired Coach Majors I asked him how long he thought it would take to rebuild the program to the point he wanted. He responded about 7 years. Mostly due to recruiting restrictions. He stated that when he was hired by Pit they funded 105 his first year.
 
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#14
#14
IndianaVol said:
Tony Elliot is the only guy I would have taken over Heupel during that coaching search.
He has Virginia rolling - they will be the new Clemson of the ACC very shortly.

Back to the OP though - YES, I am extremely grateful and very happy with the program now versus the 15 or so years prior to CJH.
I think due to that turn around, he has earned some capital and his seat is safe for another year or two.
Click to expand...
You might be right, but I don’t think UVA has the stomach to become a major college football program. They’ve been very fortunate this year to have won 3 overtime games, 1 of which was against a bad UNC team.
 
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#16
#16
JMSqb11 said:
Stop it. It only took Dabo 4 seasons to win 10 games. It did not take him 8 years to get rolling

We have to stop using the pre Heupel days or "the state of the program he took over" as the a measuring stick. To his very own credit and ability, he elevated the program in only 26 games. He deserves all the riches that come with that. But with elevating a program and raising expectations that quickly, he also has to deal with the pressure that comes with it.

Once he had that 2022 season, expectations were raised.

This has been his worst coaching job in his 5 years here. Not because of talent or what's on the field, but just penalties (undisciplined) and game management decisions with timeouts and clock and end of halves.

Heupel easily deserves to be here another 2 seasons. People can criticize without wanting to run the guy off.

But are we seriously about to go from 30-9 run to now, "Heupel needs another 2-3 seasons to get there"????
Click to expand...
I mean CJH won 11 year 2.

The point is, building a program or team takes a little time. You gotta not just get the right people on the bus, but put them in the right seats.

Way ahead of schedule IMO on a very similar trajectory to Clemson’s ascent.

TN was irrelevant for what 12 years? I mean irrelevant. We care, but no one else did. Ha
 
#18
#18
I do NOT want Heup to be fired. I would love to see him take the next step or three with his in game decision making, clock management, and team discipline especially penalties and defensive play calling and busts on 3rd down.

I would prefer to see a change at DC, especially with the talent pool coming available right now. I would also prefer Hazle be replaced with a better play caller, or if Heup is actually the man behind the curtain, hire someone he trusts more to actually call plays and just have input on play calling while on offense so he can focus more on the game, clock management, and in game discipline penalties and 3rd down shortcomings .
 
#19
#19
IndianaVol said:
Tony Elliot is the only guy I would have taken over Heupel during that coaching search.
He has Virginia rolling - they will be the new Clemson of the ACC very shortly.

Back to the OP though - YES, I am extremely grateful and very happy with the program now versus the 15 or so years prior to CJH.
I think due to that turn around, he has earned some capital and his seat is safe for another year or two.
Click to expand...
No way.
 
#20
#20
VOLociraptorr said:
1. Our last 10 win season was 2007

2. Derek Dooley averaged 5 wins a season
-Butch 6.8
-Pruitt 5.33

3. We were coming of a WINLESS SEC season and worst season in program history

4. Many nationally said we were dead

5. Hadn't beaten Bama since '06

Look, I'm not happy about this season ever but so far his worst season has been better than The best seasons of many post Fulmer coaches

***I think many of us who have a passion for Tennessee think that kids will just automatically come here. We are finally getting over the stain of a bad decade and a half. Recruiting is picking up and things are bright***

Leave Heupel alone this season . He has earned a lot of goodwill. Let's see what happens this offseason
Click to expand...
We beat Missouri and South Carolina the year before Heupel took over. An awful year, for sure, but not a winless season in conference. That came three years prior.
 
#22
#22
They said:
It’s weird to say but TN is extremely similar to Clemson when Dabo took over. I think his first 7 seasons we was a 5,6,7 win guy just building the program. Then he had the 6 or 7 year run there where they could have won a National championship any year.

The point being it took him 8 years or whatever to get there. We are in year 5 of Heupel. He’s ahead of schedule. (Dabo killed his program bc of his unwillingness to play the transfer and NIL game. CJH won’t do that) lock Heupel down forever and year 7-17 will be the best we’ve ever had.
Click to expand...
With the portal and NIL, it will be even more difficult for programs to wait that long. Shoot, Majors had an eternity to change the program but in today’s world, he would have been gone by year five, regardless of his previous NC at Pitt. Like you pointed out, can VN be that patient is the queen.
 
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#23
#23
#1fulmerite said:
With the portal and NIL, it will be even more difficult for programs to wait that long. Shoot, Majors had an eternity to change the program but in today’s world, he would have been gone by year five, regardless of his previous NC at Pitt. Like you pointed out, can VN be that patient is the queen.
Click to expand...

Hell, they’d have fired the General for going 9-9-2 from 1948-49.

I think what may be setting us apart is our stability. In Warren Buffett’s words, maybe it’s OK if we “do less.”

As with the stock markets, if you’re going to get your undies in a bunch every time our CFP chances rise and fall, maybe you should find something else to do.

I’m pretty sure Heup, DWhite, and Donde know what the heck they’re doing at this point.
 
#24
#24
VOLociraptorr said:
1. Our last 10 win season was 2007

2. Derek Dooley averaged 5 wins a season
-Butch 6.8
-Pruitt 5.33

3. We were coming of a WINLESS SEC season and worst season in program history

4. Many nationally said we were dead

5. Hadn't beaten Bama since '06

Look, I'm not happy about this season ever but so far his worst season has been better than The best seasons of many post Fulmer coaches

***I think many of us who have a passion for Tennessee think that kids will just automatically come here. We are finally getting over the stain of a bad decade and a half. Recruiting is picking up and things are bright***

Leave Heupel alone this season . He has earned a lot of goodwill. Let's see what happens this offseason
Click to expand...
Just what we need. Another thread telling us Heup deserves no blame for the output of the team HE coaches. Such a weird concept.
 
#25
#25
JMSqb11 said:
Stop it. It only took Dabo 4 seasons to win 10 games. It did not take him 8 years to get rolling

We have to stop using the pre Heupel days or "the state of the program he took over" as the a measuring stick. To his very own credit and ability, he elevated the program in only 26 games. He deserves all the riches that come with that. But with elevating a program and raising expectations that quickly, he also has to deal with the pressure that comes with it.

Once he had that 2022 season, expectations were raised.

This has been his worst coaching job in his 5 years here. Not because of talent or what's on the field, but just penalties (undisciplined) and game management decisions with timeouts and clock and end of halves.

Heupel easily deserves to be here another 2 seasons. People can criticize without wanting to run the guy off.

But are we seriously about to go from 30-9 run to now, "Heupel needs another 2-3 seasons to get there"????
Click to expand...
Just the fact so many think “he evaluated the program after 26 games” shows how delusional many Vol fans are.

The issues & challenges rebuilding Tennessee’s program were still there after ‘22. The roster actually weakened after the ‘22 season due to the disastrous’21 recruiting class & the NCAA pressure impacting ‘22 & ‘23 classes.

John Majors said it best in 1977. “They gave me a six year contract but 6 months to get the job done”
 
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