Why Josh Deserves The Criticism

#129
#129
VolTom1 said:
This post is to point out why those who are saying Josh deserves no criticism are wrong, and why I personally don't think Josh will achieve anything beyond the occasional play off appearance here at Tennessee. That being said this is not a call to fire Josh, that would be stupid with all of the coaching changes going on right now. Also if you are fine with mediocrity, if you are fine being average and not great, Josh is the prefect guy for you, just move along from this post, call me stupid for my concern, all of the typical BS I get instead of listening to the legitimate complaints.

1. Clock management - He has no idea what the rules are. Josh literally didn't know the clock was not stopping late into the Oklahoma game, not the first game he has mismanaged the clock. In this past game he had to have the ref explain the rules to him right at the two minute mark. This is a huge red flag, how are the players suppose to know the rules if the coaches don't know them, how can a staff this big not know the rules over half way through the season?

2. Stubbornness - He adapts slowly, refuses to play the best players if they are younger, most of the time. He also gives players and coaches more chances than they deserve. He didn't change up the offense for two years, we had two years of stagnation and he refused to change until this year. He has yet to force the D to change, we continue to play the same regardless if we are getting sacks or not, DB's continue not to turn and locate the ball even when they could etc...

3. Talent Evaluation/Development - While we have some good talent evaluators at Tennessee, Josh himself has been really bad at evaluating QB talent, at least since he has been at Tennessee. Also WR was an issue till this year it seemed, why did it take so long to fix these things? Hopefully they figured that blind spot out, remember though, If it was not for Joe Milton getting hurt Hendon Hooker would have sat on the bench, if it was not for the COVID year players we would have been in a world of hurt last year and this year to a degree.

4. Preparedness - Multiple games every year we go into not prepared, making critical mistakes and losing or almost losing to inferior teams. We win many of these games just because we have better overall talent, but those games should never be that close. TBF Other teams do this from time to time, Georgia comes to mind, But Georgia has one or two of these games a year, that they normally win, we on the other hand have about 4 and we are lucky if we win half of them.

5. Blindness - This is the biggest issue I see with Josh. Anyone who pays attention could clearly see we need more people on the DL, proven talent and depth. Anyone could see we were about to lose TONS of production from 2024, the type of production that you can't just get back without using the transfer portal. Think about it, it's very scary to think that if Nico stayed, just how bad would we be. Josh is very LUCKY, becasue for all the mistakes Joey makes, he also makes some really good plays, that I doubt Nico would make, and they fully expected Nico to be our QB this year. How can we lose so much of our production and think we are going to be ok with Nico at QB. This is what we lost from 2024, Omari Thomas, Omarr Norman-Lott, Elijah Simmons, James Pearce Jr, Jayson Jenkins, Jakobe Thomas, and Will Brooks. I can recall many plays from each one of these guys that helped us win games, critical plays that we might not win the game if they don't make them. I can't be the only one who seen this coming, our D taking huge steps back, this concerns me because as I said above, if Nico stays we are probably lose the Arkansas and Mississippi state games. We would be 1-5 in the SEC.. and Josh would probably be fired.

All of this being said I don't want Josh to be fired, I want him to make changes, but I'm losing confidence that he will do it, or do it fast enough to save his job, and our program from being bad again. If you get mad at me over that, I don't care, I've been a VFL and will always be, I just don't want a repeat of the bad years. I want Tennessee to be how I was when I was a kid, dominant, feared, winning championships, and we will never get there if Josh settles with the state of things now and makes no changes. I have hope he will, hopefully this past game will be the catalyst for change.



I put the Georgia loss on Josh. His playing not to lose the 4th quarter lost that game. Execution and player mistakes lost the other 2. We do need a change on defense I believe though.
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#130
#130
All of these “do” and “don’t” threads are equally dumb.

When a team wins, the TEAM performed well enough to out score the opponent. The TEAM gets credit.

Contrarily, when the team loses, the TEAM gets the criticism, and that includes the coaches, the players, and others.

So…win or lose…Heupel takes some of the credit or some of the blame (but not all or none).

And even when he loses, it doesn’t mean that he should be fired. In our league, losses will happen.
 
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#131
#131
The thing about Heupel and not knowing the rules is BS. The clock is supposed to stop when a player goes out of bounds prior to the 2 minute warning. It is to restart when the ball is spotted and the officials signal "ready for play". In the case of the play in question, the clock starts ticking while the sideline judge still has the ball. It was nowhere near being set nor were the referees signaling ready to play. That is why he was indignant. If you're criticizing him for that, it's because you don't know the rules yourself.
 
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#133
#133
SamRebel35 said:
The thing about Heupel and not knowing the rules is BS. The clock is supposed to stop when a player goes out of bounds prior to the 2 minute warning. It is to restart when the ball is spotted and the officials signal "ready for play". In the case of the play in question, the clock starts ticking while the sideline judge still has the ball. It was nowhere near being set nor were the referees signaling ready to play. That is why he was indignant. If you're criticizing him for that, it's because you don't know the rules yourself.
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I wondered about that. That's what I thought but hell they were running it almost continuously
 
#134
#134
EZE said:
All of these “do” and “don’t” threads are equally dumb.

When a team wins, the TEAM performed well enough to out score the opponent. The TEAM gets credit.

Contrarily, when the team loses, the TEAM gets the criticism, and that includes the coaches, the players, and others.

So…win or lose…Heupel takes some of the credit or some of the blame (but not all or none).

And even when he loses, it doesn’t mean that he should be fired. In our league, losses will happen.
Click to expand...
Heupel is making his life way too hard and needlessly. He needs to evolve as a HEAD coach and hire quality coordinators and assistants not his friends. The best CEO/managers hire talented folks then delegate. Turn them loose to do the jobs they were hired to do while the CEO directs the overall company. Maybe it's insecurity that keeps Heupel from bringing in top notch coaching talent the way Saban did? Dunno if he's secure enough to do something like that, but if he doesn't overcome his fears soon, he's going to let this job slip right through his fingers. And that would be sad. Like the guy regardless of his appearance. Seems like a really good fella. Hope it doesn't come to that.
 
#135
#135
BernardKingGOAT said:
I wondered about that. That's what I thought but hell they were running it almost continuously
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I was at the game and was furious because the ball was 25 yards from the hash mark and they had already blown the whistle to indicate ready to play. That is an improper timing signal and should be protested.
 
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#136
#136
CAVPUT said:
Heupel is making his life way too hard and needlessly. He needs to evolve as a HEAD coach and hire quality coordinators and assistants not his friends. The best CEO/managers hire talented folks then delegate. Turn them loose to do the jobs they were hired to do while the CEO directs the overall company. Maybe it's insecurity that keeps Heupel from bringing in top notch coaching talent the way Saban did? Dunno if he's secure enough to do something like that, but if he doesn't overcome his fears soon, he's going to let this job slip right through his fingers. And that would be sad. Like the guy regardless of his appearance. Seems like a really good fella. Hope it doesn't come to that.
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So all these guys on staff are his friends? How in the hell could YOU possibly know his fears? Some wild speculation here without any evidence to back it up
 
#138
#138
VolTom1 said:
This post is to point out why those who are saying Josh deserves no criticism are wrong, and why I personally don't think Josh will achieve anything beyond the occasional play off appearance here at Tennessee. That being said this is not a call to fire Josh, that would be stupid with all of the coaching changes going on right now. Also if you are fine with mediocrity, if you are fine being average and not great, Josh is the prefect guy for you, just move along from this post, call me stupid for my concern, all of the typical BS I get instead of listening to the legitimate complaints.

1. Clock management - He has no idea what the rules are. Josh literally didn't know the clock was not stopping late into the Oklahoma game, not the first game he has mismanaged the clock. In this past game he had to have the ref explain the rules to him right at the two minute mark. This is a huge red flag, how are the players suppose to know the rules if the coaches don't know them, how can a staff this big not know the rules over half way through the season?

2. Stubbornness - He adapts slowly, refuses to play the best players if they are younger, most of the time. He also gives players and coaches more chances than they deserve. He didn't change up the offense for two years, we had two years of stagnation and he refused to change until this year. He has yet to force the D to change, we continue to play the same regardless if we are getting sacks or not, DB's continue not to turn and locate the ball even when they could etc...

3. Talent Evaluation/Development - While we have some good talent evaluators at Tennessee, Josh himself has been really bad at evaluating QB talent, at least since he has been at Tennessee. Also WR was an issue till this year it seemed, why did it take so long to fix these things? Hopefully they figured that blind spot out, remember though, If it was not for Joe Milton getting hurt Hendon Hooker would have sat on the bench, if it was not for the COVID year players we would have been in a world of hurt last year and this year to a degree.

4. Preparedness - Multiple games every year we go into not prepared, making critical mistakes and losing or almost losing to inferior teams. We win many of these games just because we have better overall talent, but those games should never be that close. TBF Other teams do this from time to time, Georgia comes to mind, But Georgia has one or two of these games a year, that they normally win, we on the other hand have about 4 and we are lucky if we win half of them.

5. Blindness - This is the biggest issue I see with Josh. Anyone who pays attention could clearly see we need more people on the DL, proven talent and depth. Anyone could see we were about to lose TONS of production from 2024, the type of production that you can't just get back without using the transfer portal. Think about it, it's very scary to think that if Nico stayed, just how bad would we be. Josh is very LUCKY, becasue for all the mistakes Joey makes, he also makes some really good plays, that I doubt Nico would make, and they fully expected Nico to be our QB this year. How can we lose so much of our production and think we are going to be ok with Nico at QB. This is what we lost from 2024, Omari Thomas, Omarr Norman-Lott, Elijah Simmons, James Pearce Jr, Jayson Jenkins, Jakobe Thomas, and Will Brooks. I can recall many plays from each one of these guys that helped us win games, critical plays that we might not win the game if they don't make them. I can't be the only one who seen this coming, our D taking huge steps back, this concerns me because as I said above, if Nico stays we are probably lose the Arkansas and Mississippi state games. We would be 1-5 in the SEC.. and Josh would probably be fired.

All of this being said I don't want Josh to be fired, I want him to make changes, but I'm losing confidence that he will do it, or do it fast enough to save his job, and our program from being bad again. If you get mad at me over that, I don't care, I've been a VFL and will always be, I just don't want a repeat of the bad years. I want Tennessee to be how I was when I was a kid, dominant, feared, winning championships, and we will never get there if Josh settles with the state of things now and makes no changes. I have hope he will, hopefully this past game will be the catalyst for change.



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Who has said he DOES NOT deserve criticism? I’ve not noticed that.

Saying he should be fired is not being critical.

Saying he doesn’t manage clock well is and is valid.

Saying he sucks is not criticism.

Saying he called a bad play on fourth and one is valid criticism.

JMO
 
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#139
#139
Peradox1K said:
He's not though. If a player makes a mental error, how is that the coach's fault? You can only do so much to get your players disciplined and prepared, the rest is on them. The notion that it's all the coach's fault is stupid considering it's a TEAM GAME.
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Welcome to the world of accountability. There’s a reason he makes 10 mil a year and wears the “head coach” label. One boneheaded mental error is not the gripe most have here. It’s every single game there are undisciplined errors. That starts at the top. That starts in practice. That starts with what you allow and don’t allow as a leader. This has been a pattern every year with Heup, not a 1 game occurrence. I’m sure he’s a players coach and the guys love him, but that doesn’t work in college. These kids are still learning. One of the big reasons saban was successful were is well disciplined teams, along with the 5 deep talent.
 
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#140
#140
EastTNVol6240 said:
Welcome to the world of accountability. There’s a reason he makes 10 mil a year and wears the “head coach” label. One boneheaded mental error is not the gripe most have here. It’s every single game there are undisciplined errors. That starts at the top. That starts in practice. That starts with what you allow and don’t allow as a leader. This has been a pattern every year with Heup, not a 1 game occurrence. I’m sure he’s a players coach and the guys love him, but that doesn’t work in college. These kids are still learning. One of the big reasons saban was successful were is well disciplined teams, along with the 5 deep talent.
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Hard to compare anyone to Saban. Andy Reid is a player's coach. Pete Carroll was a player's coach. Heupel is the 12th highest paid coach in college football. Sounds about right for his efforts in turning this program around to national relevance
 
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#141
#141
Voltopia said:
Heh. I do so adore folks who toss in that passive aggressive "if you're fine with mediocrity" comment before unloading a full clip into something sports-related. It's not unique to Tennessee fans or anything, but I always laugh when I see it. It's the equivalent of legal boilerplate. Strawmanning any potential response before it's even written is just -- *chef's kiss* -- the sort of bait that just tells you the next replies are already written in their head and ready to go.
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It’s called a magazine, you use a clip to load a mag.
 
#144
#144
BernardKingGOAT said:
That's not a high number. Just about all HCs have long time friends or guys they worked with on their staffs. The post suggested the entire staff were a bunch of Heupel's buddies.
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The complaint on Heupel has been he's loyal to staff beyond what's normal. I'm iffy on the validity but no matter how bad the O Line gets, it's got to be hard to fire the best man from your wedding so I'm not sure that guy is a good hire if you're their boss.

What's odd to me about Heupel's loyalty is his firing at OU was largely thought to be based on Stoops not wanting to fire his brother but needing to fire someone.
 
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#146
#146
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
The complaint on Heupel has been he's loyal to staff beyond what's normal. I'm iffy on the validity but no matter how bad the O Line gets, it's got to be hard to fire the best man from your wedding so I'm not sure that guy is a good hire if you're their boss.

What's odd to me about Heupel's loyalty is his firing at OU was largely thought to be based on Stoops not wanting to fire his brother but needing to fire someone.
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That complaint has been made by people who haven't got a clue
 
#148
#148
LWSVOL said:
Who has said he DOES NOT deserve criticism? I’ve not noticed that.

Saying he should be fired is not being critical.

Saying he doesn’t manage clock well is and is valid.

Saying he sucks is not criticism.

Saying he called a bad play on fourth and one is valid criticism.

JMO
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Don’t forget that you could be dealing with a child… there’s a definite possibility
 
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#149
#149
BernardKingGOAT said:
Hard to compare anyone to Saban. Andy Reid is a player's coach. Pete Carroll was a player's coach. Heupel is the 12th highest paid coach in college football. Sounds about right for his efforts in turning this program around to national relevance
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I don’t disagree with most of that. And your right, like him or not saban was generational and coaches like him won’t come around often.

Hard to compare NFL to college though. A lot of these players are still kids. Didn’t you know “Ryan Williams was only 17”? Jokes aside, you hope most at the professional level have the disciplined side of the game pretty well nailed down before they get there so being a players coach is easier to get away with. Many at Heups level are still learning those characteristics.
 
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#150
#150
EastTNVol6240 said:
I don’t disagree with most of that. And your right, like him or not saban was generational and coaches like him won’t come around often.

Hard to compare NFL to college though. A lot of these players are still kids. Didn’t you know “Ryan Williams was only 17”? Jokes aside, you hope most at the professional level have the disciplined side of the game pretty well nailed down before they get there so being a players coach is easier to get away with. Many at Heups level are still learning those characteristics.
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I agree and also agree Heupel needs to improve discipline on the field. Hell, in '22 Banks was guaranteed at least one PF penalty per game. We had a couple earlier in the year where the player should have been taken out and gotten an ass chewing, but he just left them in there. That drives me crazy about him
 
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