Israel vs Palestinians II

#4,226
#4,226
Orangeslice13 said:
But were they the enemy before 10/7.
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They sure fought enough that they couldn't be called allies.
Orangeslice13 said:
If Israel is acting in good faith to work towards a peaceful transition to 2 states, how else were they supposed to proceed?
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With the PA involved instead of applying divide and conquer. But don't worry, it wasn't in good faith.
Orangeslice13 said:
Remember the attack was so successful because it was unexpected.
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Was it really unexpected?
 
#4,227
#4,227
KB5252 said:
I know that's really common in places like India and middle east, and now that you mention it I think I have heard of a strict Christian religious group that does this.

Isn't it crazy how some sects zero in on a very specific piece of scripture and obsess on it? Like the groups that take up serpents in East Tennessee and Kentucky
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And in SWVa and WVa. They'd also drink strychnine and speak in tongues.
I agree, it is indeed strange how they obsess like that.
 
#4,231
#4,231
Smokey123 said:
You can’t have peace unless both parties want it

And it didn’t just start the last 20 years. The first mistake started in the 70’s with Yassin

The safety of your own citizens exceed being “friendly” with the state that wants u dead
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So
You think Israel should have been bombing Gaza and annexing it instead of providing food water and money?

Israel is working with the UN and USA to promote peace. And had been for over a decade leading up to this attack.
People keep saying that they should not have. (And I don’t include you with the trash that nobody takes seriously in this thread because you will give an honest opinion ) but what I’m not hearing from any of the people pushing that BS narrative is what they should have done. @KB5252 said. It was clearly damned if you do and damned if you don’t. And this isn’t a Bengi thing because he wasn’t always in charge. It’s an Israel thing.

How would you have handled the last 15 years leading up to the 10/7 attacks differently?
 
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#4,233
#4,233
KB5252 said:
Just because he doesn't do it doesn't mean he wouldn't look the other way to advance Islam, I'm not saying he would or wouldn't but it's being advanced in western countries all over the world right now. As I said earlier, perhaps in another post, good Muslims seem to step aside and fall in line in countries where fundamentalists step in as a duty of faith.

The reason one would assume things such as this is beatings of women, honor killings/violence are all very common across the Islamic world, even the more advanced nations like Turkey, The Gulf nations etc.
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There is no reason whatsoever to assume any of this about Zohran simply because he's Muslim. You keep proving my point. He moved here as a 7-year-old kid but he's still the "other" who might facilitate a Muslim takeover of America, simply because he is Muslim. Do that with a Jewish politician and see how it sounds
 
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#4,235
#4,235
KB5252 said:
I know that's really common in places like India and middle east, and now that you mention it I think I have heard of a strict Christian religious group that does this.

Isn't it crazy how some sects zero in on a very specific piece of scripture and obsess on it? Like the groups that take up serpents in East Tennessee and Kentucky
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And…..any basis study of history will “learn ya” that the scripture in Mark about snakes and poison was add roughly 700ce. And 2.0…..is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Yeshua (aka Jesus). “It is written that thou shall not tempt the Lord you G-d nor put him to the test)



But I digress
 
#4,236
#4,236
Orangeslice13 said:
So
You think Israel should have been bombing Gaza and annexing it instead of providing food water and money?

Israel is working with the UN and USA to promote peace. And had been for over a decade leading up to this attack.
People keep saying that they should not have. (And I don’t include you with the trash that nobody takes seriously in this thread because you will give an honest opinion ) but what I’m not hearing from any of the people pushing that BS narrative is what they should have done. @KB5252 said. It was clearly damned if you do and damned if you don’t. And this isn’t a Bengi thing because he wasn’t always in charge. It’s an Israel thing.

How would you have handled the last 15 years leading up to the 10/7 attacks differently?
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Man I have no clue, it's an impossible situation. I don't have the answers.
 
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#4,237
#4,237
NashVol11 said:
So? If they say bigoted s*** for clicks and attention then you should be criticizing them for it, not saying it's rational "apprehension"
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I'm not saying they are being rational. You are taking their comments and painting those that disagree with you by their standard. I'm pointing out that others opposition to him are a based on a number of things. Yet you zero in on one aspect over and over.
 
#4,238
#4,238
Orangeslice13 said:
How would you have handled the last 15 years leading up to the 10/7 attacks differently?
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I would have focused my attention on the needs of my citizens and attempted to nurture relationships with other countries which have historically supported Hamas (or any antisemitic militant organization).
 
#4,241
#4,241
McDad said:
I would have focused my attention on the needs of my citizens and attempted to nurture relationships with other countries which have historically supported Hamas (or any antisemitic militant organization).
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So….basically what Israel did.
An argument can be made that Iran prompted the Hamas attack as Israel had been very successful in the McDad plan.
Everyone around Israel is essentially calling for peace with the exception of Iran and Gaza/West Bank

As proof of action over words, when Iran launched 400 drones at Israel, a significant number was shot down by those neighbors
 
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#4,242
#4,242
NashVol11 said:
There is no reason whatsoever to assume any of this about Zohran simply because he's Muslim. You keep proving my point. He moved here as a 7-year-old kid but he's still the "other" who might facilitate a Muslim takeover of America, simply because he is Muslim. Do that with a Jewish politician and see how it sounds
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No I didn't because I said in that post I'm not assuming anything, I didn't know if he would or wouldn't. word for word what I said yet I'm assuming? Looks like you're the one making assumptions and projecting.

I did however say that I've noticed in studying that when religious zealots take over the moderates always seem to fall in line out of religious duty. I think some of that is natural and not completely isolated to Islam though.

To your last sentence the Jewish people don't seek to convert others to Islam by religious mandate. That's not how Judaism operates. We both know there is a huge difference if you'd just admit it, with Islam there are three choices; convert, die or submit to the rule of Islam and pay religious tax.
 
#4,243
#4,243
Orangeslice13 said:
See.
That’s what reasonable and intelligent people say.

I don’t either. But I know that trying to work with the representative government of a people instead of trying to subvert them isn’t a negative
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I see both sides to that argument. You are taking a gamble either way, and it's not likely to work out. But I guess trying is better than not.
 
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#4,244
#4,244
Orangeslice13 said:
So….basically what Israel did.
An argument can be made that Iran prompted the Hamas attack as Israel had been very successful in the McDad plan.
Everyone around Israel is essentially calling for peace with the exception of Iran and Gaza/West Bank

As proof of action over words, when Iran launched 400 drones at Israel, a significant number was shot down by those neighbors
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Since my ideas align with the action Israel took, can I become an honorary Jew?
 
#4,245
#4,245
KB5252 said:
I'm not saying they are being rational. You are taking their comments and painting those that disagree with you by their standard. I'm pointing out that others opposition to him are a based on a number of things. Yet you zero in on one aspect over and over.
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I didn't say everyone that doesn't like Zohran is an Islamophobe. That would be "painting those that disagree with me" and it's not in any of my posts. I said Islamophobia is far more accepted than antisemitism, gave specific examples that you could never say about Judaism and get away with it and you are vaguely saying nothing in response
 
#4,246
#4,246
KB5252 said:
No I didn't because I said in that post I'm not assuming anything, I didn't know if he would or wouldn't. word for word what I said yet I'm assuming? Looks like you're the one making assumptions and projecting.

I did however say that I've noticed in studying that when religious zealots take over the moderates always seem to fall in line out of religious duty. I think some of that is natural and not completely isolated to Islam though.

To your last sentence the Jewish people don't seek to convert others to Islam by religious mandate. That's not how Judaism operates. We both know there is a huge difference if you'd just admit it, with Islam there are three choices; convert, die or submit to the rule of Islam and pay religious tax.
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So you agree that people look at Muslims differently and more negatively than Jews or Christians or others, and are saying that's actually the correct approach because "there's a huge difference" that makes Muslims deserve it? If so then just say that
 
#4,247
#4,247
Orangeslice13 said:
So
You think Israel should have been bombing Gaza and annexing it instead of providing food water and money?

Israel is working with the UN and USA to promote peace. And had been for over a decade leading up to this attack.
People keep saying that they should not have. (And I don’t include you with the trash that nobody takes seriously in this thread because you will give an honest opinion ) but what I’m not hearing from any of the people pushing that BS narrative is what they should have done. @KB5252 said. It was clearly damned if you do and damned if you don’t. And this isn’t a Bengi thing because he wasn’t always in charge. It’s an Israel thing.

How would you have handled the last 15 years leading up to the 10/7 attacks differently?
Click to expand...
Bombing or supporting terrorists aren’t the only 2 options. But sure annexing the area decades ago would have caused more overall peace.
The support of yassin started decades before 2005 and not under Bibi. Leaders have an obligation to protect and do what’s best for its citizens. Funding extremists that think their current government is too secular and also want to kill you is playing with fire and putting your citizens in harms way

Sure some people have hidden agendas behind stories they push, it doesn’t automatically mean the story is untrue

You would have to take it back to the 70’s and not support Yassin. As for the last 15 years there’s no right answer but there’s certainly wrong ones. Drop funding when they vowed to erase the state of Israel, Hamas became crippled during the 10’s and almost fell (I don’t think irgc woulda allowed that tho) work with neighboring countries that are also tired of their bs. Not working with Qatar to keep the funds coming

I don’t disagree with aggressive action that was done in response to 10/7, I do think things should have been done differently and Israel’s done things that were wrong but we’ve gone over that. I have more of a problem with 70-90’ and 2010’s than I do with the response
 
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#4,250
#4,250
NashVol11 said:
I didn't say everyone that doesn't like Zohran is an Islamophobe. That would be "painting those that disagree with me" and it's not in any of my posts. I said Islamophobia is far more accepted than antisemitism, gave specific examples that you could never say about Judaism and get away with it and you are vaguely saying nothing in response
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I would argue the reason for the resistance to accepting Islam vs Judaism is that Judaism, Hinduism, etc aren't the threat to Western culture and values that Islam is. Islam, by the book isn't compatible with Western culture, specifically American culture and values. They are diametrically opposed.

Now that's not to say that all followers of Islam can't be good Americans and believe in the same freedoms we do, as we've already established there is a wide Gulf of Islamic beliefs and practice.

Judaism, nor any other major religion I'm aware of doesn't look to supplant the existing culture and law as Islam does, of course the bigger threat is going to be resisted.

Islam is a religion that encompasses the political and realm of law and in extreme cases consumes them both completely. Why shouldn't we be resistant and vigilant against that?
 
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