Israel vs Palestinians II

#4,151
#4,151
NashVol11 said:
I don't think there is much ambiguity in the point I'm making, treating Muslims differently because they're Muslim is blatantly bigoted and you are largely offering halfhearted reasons why it makes sense. It won't ever be coherent because bigotry never is. The average Muslim isn't any more scary or deserving of "apprehension" than the average Christian or the average white person
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He isn’t your average Muslim. Stop lying.
This is very scary.

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The "Holy Land 5" refers to five former leaders of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF), once the largest Muslim charity in the United States, who were convicted in 2008 of funneling millions of dollars to the Palestinian group Hamas
.

The convictions
After the HLF was designated a terrorist organization by the U.S. government in 2001, its assets were frozen and five of its leaders were charged with providing material support to a foreign terrorist organization. Following a 2007 mistrial, the men were convicted in a second trial in 2008. They received sentences ranging from 15 to 65 years.

The convicted men were:

  • Shukri Abu Baker: Co-founder and CEO, sentenced to 65 years.
  • Ghassan Elashi: Co-founder and chairman, sentenced to 65 years.
  • Mufid Abdulqader: Board member, sentenced to 20 years. He was released in December 2024 after serving 16 years.
  • Abdulrahman Odeh: Representative, sentenced to 15 years. He was released in 2020.
  • Mohammed El-Mezain: Endowments director, sentenced to 15 years. He was released in 2022.

The controversy
The case has been highly contentious, sparking significant debate about the nature of charity and the use of evidence in post-9/11 terrorism cases.

Key points of the controversy include:
  • Conflicting narratives: The prosecution successfully argued that HLF funneled money to committees controlled by Hamas. However, the defense claimed the funds were for legitimate humanitarian aid and that the zakat committees were not on any government blacklist at the time.
  • Questionable legal procedures: Critics have highlighted the government's use of "secret evidence" that was not fully disclosed to the defense, as well as hearsay evidence and mistranslated materials.
  • Lengthy sentences: Human rights groups, including the ACLU, have condemned the sentences as "draconian".
  • Advocacy for release: Campaigns like #FreeTheHLF5 were launched to call for the release of the imprisoned men.
  • Accusations of propaganda: Conversely, some groups, such as Canary Mission, have characterized the campaign to free the Holy Land 5 as part of a broader "propaganda war" that has had devastating consequences.

Documentary and books
The story has been the subject of several books and a documentary:
  • Books: Miko Peled's 2018 book, Injustice: The Story of the Holy Land Foundation Five, detailed the trial and its aftermath. Another book by attorney John T. Boyd, The Holy Land Foundation Case: The Collapse of American Justice, also scrutinizes the legal proceedings.
  • Documentary: In 2022, a two-part documentary titled The Holy Land 5 was released, directed by Mohammad Omar.
 
#4,154
#4,154
Netanyahu also "funneled money to Hamas." We're supposed to be mad about a young man's rap lyric about people alleged to have done the same act.

If anybody can provide any direct evidence that the HL5 knowingly funneled $ to Hamas, I'll be obliged. What I'm reading says they were convicted with circumstantial evidence and with, get this, no ****....anonymous Israeli intelligence testimony.

LMAO. Israel has exercised masterful control over our politicians, MSM, and even our courts. It's really incredible.
 
#4,156
#4,156
n_huffhines said:
Netanyahu also "funneled money to Hamas." We're supposed to be mad about a young man's rap lyric about people alleged to have done the same act.

If anybody can provide any direct evidence that the HL5 knowingly funneled $ to Hamas, I'll be obliged. What I'm reading says they were convicted with circumstantial evidence and with, get this, no ****....anonymous Israeli intelligence testimony.

LMAO. Israel has exercised masterful control over our politicians, MSM, and even our courts. It's really incredible.
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You are disgusting.

The claims that Jews use blood libel and control the American government are baseless and antisemitic conspiracy theories. These harmful falsehoods have been historically used to incite hatred and violence against Jewish people.
 
#4,158
#4,158
Orangeslice13 said:
It’s that same Bull **** Narrative.
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Except it’s one of the few that’s not bs And it didn’t only begin when Hamas was the governing authority. Supporting someone that finds the PLO too secular and wants to propagandize his ideology through charity to mosques and school is inexcusable
 
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#4,159
#4,159
Smokey123 said:
Except it’s one of the few that’s not bs And it didn’t only begin when Hamas was the governing authority. Supporting someone that finds the PLO too secular and wants to propagandize his ideology through charity to mosques and school is inexcusable
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It is bull ****.
Hamas is the government of Gaza. They run the schools, they run the Hospitals, they run everything as they are the government of Gaza.
Let me say that again for the ****tards that are struggling with it. Hamas is the government of Gaza. That’s who the US gave money too. That’s who the USA gave money too. That’s who everyone gave money too. If Israel had tried to give anyone else money than Hamas , the antisemites here would be complaining that Israel was try to undermine and secret the government of Gaza.

And that’s another thing. Bengi didn’t reach in his wallet and give money secretly to Hamas. The nation of Israel gave money to the government of Gaza with the blessing of the UN.
 
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#4,160
#4,160
Orangeslice13 said:
It is bull ****.
Hamas is the government of Gaza. They run the schools, they run the Hospitals, they run everything as they are the government of Gaza.
Let me say that again for the ****tards that are struggling with it. Hamas is the government of Gaza. That’s who the US gave money too. That’s who the USA gave money too. That’s who everyone gave money too. If Israel had tried to give anyone else money than Hamas , the antisemites here would be complaining that Israel was try to undermine and secret the government of Gaza.

And that’s another thing. Bengi didn’t reach in his wallet and give money secretly to Hamas. The nation of Israel gave money to the government of Gaza with the blessing of the UN.
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Am I the only one who thinks it's stupid to give money to an enemy?
 
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#4,161
#4,161
Orangeslice13 said:
It is bull ****.
Hamas is the government of Gaza. They run the schools, they run the Hospitals, they run everything as they are the government of Gaza.
Let me say that again for the ****tards that are struggling with it. Hamas is the government of Gaza. That’s who the US gave money too. That’s who the USA gave money too. That’s who everyone gave money too. If Israel had tried to give anyone else money than Hamas , the antisemites here would be complaining that Israel was try to undermine and secret the government of Gaza.

And that’s another thing. Bengi didn’t reach in his wallet and give money secretly to Hamas. The nation of Israel gave money to the government of Gaza with the blessing of the UN.
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And giving money to a “government” that wants to destroy your state and says their judgment day can’t happen until you find every Jew hiding behind a tree and slaughter them… is beyond idiotic. Idgaf if the UN blessed it or not. And again Israel’s role didnt begin under Bibi or 2005
 
#4,163
#4,163
McDad said:
Am I the only one who thinks it's stupid to give money to an enemy?
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But were they the enemy before 10/7. If Israel is acting in good faith to work towards a peaceful transition to 2 states, how else were they supposed to proceed?

Remember the attack was so successful because it was unexpected.
 
#4,166
#4,166
Orangeslice13 said:
But were they the enemy before 10/7. If Israel is acting in good faith to work towards a peaceful transition to 2 states, how else were they supposed to proceed?

Remember the attack was so successful because it was unexpected.
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I think of militant Arabs who want destruction of Israel as an eternal enemy to Israel.
 
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#4,168
#4,168
Smokey123 said:
And giving money to a “government” that wants to destroy your state and says their judgment day can’t happen until you find every Jew hiding behind a tree and slaughter them… is beyond idiotic. Idgaf if the UN blessed it or not. And again Israel’s role didnt begin under Bibi or 2005
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15 years of self governance with minimal dustups working towards 2state. There’s one group that acted in accordance with that goal and one that didn’t. Who was Israel supposed to work with other than the recognized government of Gaza?
The same people the US and the UN were working with?
That’s Hamas. You don’t day to call Israel’s actions towards peace nefarious.
At least not and be honest about the last 15 years before 10/7
 
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#4,171
#4,171
McDad said:
I think of militant Arabs who want destruction of Israel as an eternal enemy to Israel.
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I agree. They should have annexed Gaza decades ago. Even now we’re just setting up for the next phase of the conflict.

So you’re saying Israel should have taken over Gaza by force years ago instead of giving money and working towards peace?

Or am I misunderstanding your point?
 
#4,174
#4,174
Orangeslice13 said:
15 years of self governance with minimal dustups working towards 2state. There’s one group that acted in accordance with that goal and one that didn’t. Who was Israel supposed to work with other than the recognized government of Gaza?
The same people the US and the UN were working with?
That’s Hamas. You don’t day to call Israel’s actions towards peace nefarious.
At least not and be honest about the last 15 years before 10/7
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You don’t work with the enemy that spent decades vowing to kill you
 
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