Israel vs Palestinians II

[MAD]

 

[MAD]

 

[KB5252]

"The majority" aren't apprehensive, which is why he keeps winning even among Jews. If you mean the majority of the people who are apprehensive, it sounds like they are "picking a handful" of terrorists on 9/11 and attributing that to the majority of Muslims.

I am not worried about the average Muslim (who in this case, btw, has lived in NYC since age 7) being "incompatible with American values" any more than the average person from anywhere else. And this is my point again, when it's raised that people look at Muslims differently and negatively and discriminate against them it's always "yes, and here's why that's rational," which is f***ing insane

I knew and grew up around Muslims, many were my friends and were fine but some of the very strict parents, their adherence to their faith would absolutely put me in direct opposition to them holding political office or position of authority. In high school a girl we knew was beaten so badly she could not go to school, her friend reported her parents, her friend then got beaten by her parents.

I'm sorry if I find disrespecting your parents by wearing makeup a valid reason to beat your child or getting beaten for reporting abuse and interfering with a parent's right to beat their child something incompatible with American Values.

To pretend there are no issues with attitudes toward women in general and archaic laws that govern aspects of their and others lives is even more f***ing insane to me.

 

[NashVol11]

I knew and grew up around Muslims, many were my friends and were fine but some of the very strict parents, their adherence to their faith would absolutely put me in direct opposition to them holding political office or position of authority. In high school a girl we knew was beaten so badly she could not go to school, her friend reported her parents, her friend then got beaten by her parents.

I'm sorry if I find disrespecting your parents by wearing makeup a valid reason to beat your child or getting beaten for reporting abuse and interfering with a parent's right to beat their child something incompatible with American Values.

To pretend there are no issues with attitudes toward women in general and archaic laws that govern aspects of their and others lives is even more f***ing insane to me.

Beating children for wearing makeup isn't a Muslim values, you keep responding to criticism of generalization and prejudice with more generalization and prejudice. I know plenty of Muslims who (shocker!) wear makeup

 

[NashVol11]

And there are plenty of Christians who proudly beat their kids as well

 

[MAD]

 

[KB5252]

Beating children for wearing makeup isn't a Muslim values, you keep responding to criticism of generalization and prejudice with more generalization and prejudice. I know plenty of Muslims who (shocker!) wear makeup

Which goes directly to my point that it depends on to what extent they adhere to Shariah and follow Hadith.

How am I making a generalization and being prejudiced by recounting a real life scenario I saw play out? Especially after already specifically pointing out it's not the majority in prior posts. And those were examples of the values those particular families held, which I consider at odds with Western values.

I simply stated that SOME Muslims values are antithetical to ours and gave you a 2 in 1 example to back up my assertion. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[KB5252]

And there are plenty of Christians who proudly beat their kids as well

And those values are equally at odds with American values. I wouldn't want them in a position of authority either.

I've missed the point.

 

[NashVol11]

Which goes directly to my point that it depends on to what extent they adhere to Shariah and follow Hadith.

How am I making a generalization and being prejudiced by recounting a real life scenario I saw play out? Especially after already specifically pointing out it's not the majority in prior posts. And those were examples of the values those particular families held, which I consider at odds with Western values.

I simply stated that SOME Muslims values are antithetical to ours and gave you a 2 in 1 example to back up my assertion. Nothing more nothing less.

Okay. SOME Christians' values are antithetical to ours based on a child abuser I saw in the news, or a pedophile priest. Better be "apprehensive" if one becomes a mayor near you

 

[NashVol11]

And those values are equally at odds with American values. I wouldn't want them in a position if authority either.

I've missed the point.

Good. So this applies to Christians too, yes?

I'm saying a lot of people have apprehensions of him being mayor for a number of reasons, and him being Muslim actually could actually be a valid reason if we are being intellectually honest. Depending on his Muslim faith it might be incompatible with American values, I'll go into that more below.

 

[KB5252]

Okay. SOME Christians' values are antithetical to ours based on a child abuser I saw in the news, or a pedophile priest. Better be "apprehensive" if one becomes a mayor near you

Absolutely we should....... It would be irresponsible not to.

 

[KB5252]

Good. So this applies to Christians too, yes?

Yes, it applies to some Christians as it applies to some Muslims........ Glad you're coming around and admitting issues where, and to the extent, they exist instead of ignoring it.

 

[NashVol11]

Absolutely we should....... It would be irresponsible not to.

You are making my point for me, every religion has those people but it only gets brought up for one of them. People aren't apprehensive of Cuomo being mayor because of him being Christian, and he is an actual sex pest himself

 

[KB5252]

You are making my point for me, every religion has those people but it only gets brought up for one of them. People aren't apprehensive of Cuomo being mayor because of him being Christian, and he is an actual sex pest himself

I don't think I am, I think you believe I am saying A) when that's not my point at all. I also believe you aren't being honest with yourself about there being a problem in a significant (albeit the minority) of the Muslim community.

I'll be honest I've never been witness to, or seen a news story of Christian family beating or causing harm to their child because that child did something to dishonor them in accordance with their faith. I'm sure it's happened though.

I have however witnessed cases where kids were beaten because they dishonored their parents by doing something considered haram....... And I've seen more than a handful of honor killings and beating stories in the news over the years.

I think it's safe to say it's a much bigger problem within Muslim communities here than it is in Christian communities.

To your last point New York certainly knows how to pick em don't they?

 

[NashVol11]

I don't think I am, I think you believe I am saying A) when that's not my point at all. I also believe you aren't being honest with yourself about there being a problem in a significant (albeit the minority) of the Muslim community.

I'll be honest I've never been witness to, or seen a news story of Christian family beating or causing harm to their child because that child did something to dishonor them in accordance with their faith. I'm sure it's happened though.

I have however witnessed cases where kids were beaten because they dishonored their parents by doing something considered haram....... And I've seen more than a handful of honor killings and beating stories in the news over the years.

I think it's safe to say it's a much bigger problem within Muslim communities here than it is in Christian communities.

To your last point New York certainly knows how to pick em don't they?

I don't think there is much ambiguity in the point I'm making, treating Muslims differently because they're Muslim is blatantly bigoted and you are largely offering halfhearted reasons why it makes sense. It won't ever be coherent because bigotry never is. The average Muslim isn't any more scary or deserving of "apprehension" than the average Christian or the average white person

 

[EasternVol]

Which goes directly to my point that it depends on to what extent they adhere to Shariah and follow Hadith.

How am I making a generalization and being prejudiced by recounting a real life scenario I saw play out? Especially after already specifically pointing out it's not the majority in prior posts. And those were examples of the values those particular families held, which I consider at odds with Western values.

I simply stated that SOME Muslims values are antithetical to ours and gave you a 2 in 1 example to back up my assertion. Nothing more nothing less.

I think we can look at any religion and say some of their values are antithetical to ours as they currently stand. Have you ever seen women walking so many paces behind their husbands for example?

 

[MAD]

Even her own country can’t defend the vile antisemite anymore.






And of course

A few weeks earlier, Albanese had submitted her report to the U.N. Human Rights Council, "From Economy of Occupation to Economy of Genocide." It accuses several global companies of profiting "from the Israeli economy of illegal occupation, apartheid and now genocide," including Lockheed Martin, Microsoft, Palantir, Caterpillar, and even Booking.com. (The report also mentions that companies have been asked for comment, which appears to be the "threatening letters" referred to by the State Department.)

Whether or not one accepts Albanese's characterization of Israel's actions, the report itself is an interesting read on the economics of war. The report details how some firms profit directly from providing the state with the tools to inflict violence while others take advantage of the state's monopoly on violence to grab a monopoly on resources. Albanese calls for international sanctions, legal action, and consumer boycotts aimed at changing these companies' behavior.

The U.S. government's attempts to stop the report from being published in the
first place make it especially worth reading.
Politicians have long wanted to erode Americans' right to vote with their wallets, and they've used boycotts of Israel as a test case to introduce wide-ranging anti-boycott laws. By accusing the United Nations of "lawfare" for simply printing a report, the government is attacking the right of consumers and investors to hear information that lets them make politically conscious decisions.

View attachment 781332

The U.S. government doesn't want you to read this report on Israel's business deals

Whether or not one accepts the report's characterization of Israel's actions, the report itself is an interesting read on the economics of war.

reason.com

 

[EasternVol]

Even her own country can’t defend the vile antisemite anymore.



View attachment 786125


And of course

If you want people to take that seriously then some context would help.

 

[KB5252]

I don't think there is much ambiguity in the point I'm making, treating Muslims differently because they're Muslim is blatantly bigoted and you are largely offering halfhearted reasons why it makes sense. It won't ever be coherent because bigotry never is. The average Muslim isn't any more scary or deserving of "apprehension" than the average Christian or the average white person

But I'm not treating them differently than I am Christians or Hindus for example. If a Hindu or Christian has similar views toward women or condones violence based on faith I would not want them in office either.

Nobody said Muslims were scary. You made the original comment about bigoted comments by Loomer and others. I pointed out that a large portion of America views Islam as incompatible with Western values. And by the book that is true. But as you pointed out not all Muslims practice their faith by the book. Attitudes toward women and non Muslims vary widely from mosque to mosque and imam to imam.

People are going to have apprehension if they don't know whether they are getting a product of Billy Graham or David Koresh.

 

[KB5252]

I think we can look at any religion and say some of their values are antithetical to ours as they currently stand. Have you ever seen women walking so many paces behind their husbands for example?

No I've never seen that here, I'm sure it exists, but I've seen stuff like that in other cultures.

 

[NashVol11]

But I'm not treating them differently than I am Christians or Hindus for example. If a Hindu or Christian has similar views toward women or condones violence based on faith I would not want them in office either.

Nobody said Muslims were scary. You made the original comment about bigoted comments by Loomer and others. I pointed out that a large portion of America views Islam as incompatible with Western values. And by the book that is true. But as you pointed out not all Muslims practice their faith by the book. Attitudes toward women and non Muslims vary widely from mosque to mosque and imam to imam.

People are going to have apprehension if they don't know whether they are getting a product of Billy Graham or David Koresh.

But Zohran has done none of those things and isn't a religious fanatic at all. If you're "apprehensive" about Zohran because of his faith but not Cuomo because of his faith then you are by definition treating them differently

 

[KB5252]

But Zohran has done none of those things and isn't a religious fanatic at all. If you're "apprehensive" about Zohran because of his faith but not Cuomo because of his faith then you are by definition treating them differently

Let me be clear in case I've neglected to say it earlier. I'm not apprehensive because he has no bearing on me or my life.

I'm speaking for those that have reservations about him like I do. If their main apprehension about him is because he's a Muslim they're missing the target IMO. It's unlikely he's of the faith we have been discussing. His policies are the real issue. But people in New York are taxed so much unless they are upper or at least upper middle class they have no choice but to be dependent on government.

 

[MAD]

Italy blasts Francesca Albanese: “Entirely devoid of credibility and impartiality”​

• October 30, 2025
• Israel, United Nations
• Francesca Albanese

During the presentation of Francesca Albanese’s one-sided anti-Israel report at the UN General Assembly, Italy slammed Albanese despite her being a citizen of the country, calling her report “entirely devoid of credibility and impartiality” while adding that “Ms. Albanese cannot be considered impartial.”

Full Statement:

Thank you, Mr Chair. If we are cut off, Italy will deposit the full text.

The report presented today by Special Rapporteur Albanese is entirely devoid of credibility and impartiality. As Italy, we are not surprised.

The content of the report blatantly exceeds the specific mandate of the Special Rapporteur, which does not include investigations into alleged violations committed by other States or entities, nor judgements on cooperation between third countries and the ICC.

Even more concerning is the complete disregard – in particular during the last months – for the code of conduct for Special Rapporteurs, which includes common sense principles such as integrity, impartiality and good faith. These are not optional; they are the foundation of any credible report, of the implementation of the mandate and of the United Nations itself.

The code of conduct calls on Rapporteurs to “ensure that their personal political opinions are without prejudice to the execution of their mission” and to “show restraint, moderation and discretion so as not to undermine the recognition of the independent nature of their mandate”.

There is ample evidence on-line and in her interviews that, as Special Rapporteur, Ms. Albanese cannot be considered impartial. At a recent public event in Italy she even seemed to be questioning a statement by the local mayor calling for the release of Israeli hostages.

Faced with a document lacking credibility, in particular on impartiality, we have chosen not to comment on the report. We will not do so today either.

Instead, we pose a direct question to the Rapporteur: do you truly believe that this report and today’s debate contribute to achieving a sustainable and lasting peace in the region or to build constructive dialogue among the parties?

Do you believe that this report and today’s debate help support the current efforts for peace and reconstruction in Gaza or alleviate the suffering of civilians?

It would be a tragic paradox if the UN were perceived as undermining peace rather than promoting it.

Italy, regardless of this report, will continue to work for peace in the region as it always has, and especially after October 7th. We will continue to work to alleviate the suffering of civilians, to deliver food via our Food for Gaza initiative, to evacuate the wounded, to resettle university students and to support diplomatically efforts aimed at achieving sustainable and lasting peace.

 

[NashVol11]

Let me be clear in case I've neglected to say it earlier. I'm not apprehensive because he has no bearing on me or my life.

I'm speaking for those that have reservations about him like I do. If their main apprehension about him is because he's a Muslim they're missing the target IMO. It's unlikely he's of the faith we have been discussing. His policies are the real issue. But people in New York are taxed so much unless they are upper or at least upper middle class they have no choice but to be dependent on government.

You keep dancing around it. Charlie Kirk and many many others were acting like NYC "forgot 9/11" because they're electing a Muslim mayor. Laura Loomer said Islam should be outlawed. There have been cartoons showing Zohran as a plane flying toward the WTC and as a long-nosed Muslim - that looks nothing like he actually looks - slicing the Big Apple in half. The Cuomo campaign put his picture on ads but darkened and lengthened his beard to make him look scarier. That is all outright bigotry that you are describing as justified apprehension somehow

 

[NashVol11]

It's unlikely he's of the faith we have been discussing.

Also, it's not just "unlikely." There's no reason to assume someone is secretly a fundamentalist who beats women for not wearing hijabs unless they have given you a reason (not just "being Muslim") to assume that. His wife is an objectively beautiful woman that doesn't wear a hijab at all