Israel vs Palestinians II

#4,102
#4,102
NashVol11 said:
Setting aside that most of that is made up, invoking 9/11 because he's Muslim is very obviously prejudiced. Zohran has done a lot more outreach to Jewish citizens of NYC (and won that demographic) than Cuomo for example has done with Muslims here, the latter just never gets talked about because Islamophobia doesn't get the press that antisemitism does (again, my point)
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My opinion has nothing to do with 9/11, the fact that he's Arab etc. The Jewish vote in New York appears to be very fractured. I've seen no concrete numbers.

But I agree much of the dislike of him is sensationalized. Half of what he's proposed isn't really doable, he'll probably scrap a lot of it just as a matter of practicality. It's what politicians often do, promise the world and deliver on a portion of it.
 
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#4,103
#4,103
KB5252 said:
My opinion has nothing to do with 9/11, the fact that he's Arab etc. The Jewish vote in New York appears to be very fractured. I've seen no concrete numbers.

But I agree much of the dislike of him is sensationalized. Half of what he's proposed isn't really doable, he'll probably scrap a lot of it just as a matter of practicality. It's what politicians often do, promise the world and deliver on a portion of it.
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I know yours doesn't, but I'm not just talking about your opinion. Charlie Kirk didn't invoke 9/11 because of some "connection to extremism," but because he's Muslim. And Laura Loomer, who has a role in the administration, has said much worse. These aren't just weirdo Facebook videos.

"Muslims will never be treated the same as every other American, and they never should be, because by practicing Islam, they are inherently UN AMERICAN....

We need less Muslims in America, not more.

In fact, Islam should be banned in America."


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#4,104
#4,104
n_huffhines said:
@NashVol11 and the other part of that is the comparison of random people on FB to Megyn Kelly. This is one of the most common sins in the VN politics forum. It comes in various forms:

Some people on Twitter/FB are antisemitic, and that's no different from Megyn Kelly being Islamaphobic.

Nobody is protesting the unaffiliated Boko Harem, and so why are people protesting our alliance with Israel?

Imagine the meltdown if this were Pete Hegseth, and not some low-ranking leftist nobody has ever heard of (Jay Jones)?

They have incredibly low expectations for their officials, allies, and thought leaders. We used to expect a high minimum level of decorum from the WH. The WH can't go any lower than it goes, and it's all justified because some anonymous radical leftist behaved badly somewhere.
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I think you are forgiving too much from the left, their actions and demeanor have been in the ballpark with Trump since Hilary Clinton comments during the first Trump presidential campaign.

We can't pretend this is just one sided. Trump is an idiot, but people like MTG, AOC and members of the squad and many others have said and done some pretty crazy stuff.
 
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#4,105
#4,105
NashVol11 said:
I know yours doesn't, but I'm not just talking about your opinion. Charlie Kirk didn't invoke 9/11 because of some "connection to extremism," but because he's Muslim. And Laura Loomer, who has a role in the administration, has said much worse. These aren't just weirdo Facebook videos.

"Muslims will never be treated the same as every other American, and they never should be, because by practicing Islam, they are inherently UN AMERICAN....

We need less Muslims in America, not more.

In fact, Islam should be banned in America."


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Do you believe a believer of Islam following Sharia law can share American values?

I do, the problem is many can't and don't. For any nation to succeed there must be a common fabric among it's people working toward a common goal.

I don't judge all Muslims on the actions of radicals. i am however aware of the radicals goals. And I'm also aware in most cases where radicals attempt to take over good Muslims fall in line out of some perceived duty to the faith. It's unlike other religions and systems of law in that respect.

I believe there is a lot of hyperbole, as evidenced by the links above. But as with any topic there is at least a shred or kernel of truth to it.

It wouldn't be dissimilar to a western, particularly American, being voted in as mayor or governor of a province or city in an Arab country. They wouldn't trust that based on past events either would they?
 
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#4,106
#4,106
Orangeslice13 said:
Jew hate is irrational. And it’s everywhere. It’s been that way my entire 56 years. I don’t waste my time trying to correct them. I prefer to let them speak so I know who they are.

You make a valid point and it’s honestly why the word “Genocide” doesn’t mean anything anymore.
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I only hate you during game threads....lol
 
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#4,107
#4,107
KB5252 said:
Do you believe a believer of Islam following Sharia law can share American values?

I do, the problem is many can't and don't. For any nation to succeed there must be a common fabric among it's people working toward a common goal.

I don't judge all Muslims on the actions of radicals. i am however aware of the radicals goals. And I'm also aware in most cases where radicals attempt to take over good Muslims fall in line out of some perceived duty to the faith. It's unlike other religions and systems of law in that respect.

I believe there is a lot of hyperbole, as evidenced by the links above. But as with any topic there is at least a shred or kernel of truth to it.

It wouldn't be dissimilar to a western, particularly American, being voted in as mayor or governor of a province or city in an Arab country. They wouldn't trust that based on past events either would they?
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There isn't a "kernel of truth" in scolding NYC for having a Muslim mayor because of 9/11, or in saying Islam should be outlawed or Zohran should be deported. "Sharia law" has nothing to do with Zohran whatsoever. You are sanewashing some pretty insane statements here, but I think most can see that the idea that Islamophobia draws more outrage than antisemitism is fairly ridiculous. None of those Islamophobic statements even moved the needle nationally.

Make any of Loomer's or Kirk's statements about Jews and they would be justifiably roundly condemned; I think everyone here agrees on that, with some even leaning into it and saying Muslims are discriminated against because they deserve it. All of that proves my exact point
 
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#4,113
#4,113
NashVol11 said:
There isn't a "kernel of truth" in scolding NYC for having a Muslim mayor because of 9/11, or in saying Islam should be outlawed or Zohran should be deported. "Sharia law" has nothing to do with Zohran whatsoever. You are sanewashing some pretty insane statements here, but I think most can see that the idea that Islamophobia draws more outrage than antisemitism is fairly ridiculous. None of those Islamophobic statements even moved the needle nationally.

Make any of Loomer's or Kirk's statements about Jews and they would be justifiably roundly condemned; I think everyone here agrees on that, with some even leaning into it and saying Muslims are discriminated against because they deserve it. All of that proves my exact point
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I'm not saying there should, I'm saying there's a kernel of truth to the apprehension, which should have been clear given the rest of my statement and the example I made at the tail end.

You don't think citizens of Ryadh would be apprehensive or concerned should I run for, and become the front runner to govern their city? Absolutely they would.
 
#4,121
#4,121
KB5252 said:
I'm not saying there should, I'm saying there's a kernel of truth to the apprehension, which should have been clear given the rest of my statement and the example I made at the tail end.

You don't think citizens of Ryadh would be apprehensive or concerned should I run for, and become the front runner to govern their city? Absolutely they would.
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I don't think there is a kernel of truth to being afraid of having a Muslim mayor based on the fact that the 9/11 attackers 24 years ago were also Muslim (along with more than a billion others). I am not apprehensive about having a Muslim mayor or Congressperson or President or otherwise, and I think people who are are both telling on themselves and proving my point
 
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#4,124
#4,124
NashVol11 said:
I don't think there is a kernel of truth to being afraid of having a Muslim mayor based on the fact that the 9/11 attackers 24 years ago were also Muslim (along with more than a billion others). I am not apprehensive about having a Muslim mayor or Congressperson or President or otherwise, and I think people who are are both telling on themselves and proving my point
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You are picking a handful of people and attributing apprehension of the majority to the standard they set.

I'm saying a lot of people have apprehensions of him being mayor for a number of reasons, and him being Muslim actually could actually be a valid reason if we are being intellectually honest. Depending on his Muslim faith it might be incompatible with American values, I'll go into that more below.

I don't know what his beliefs are, and he's a politician so I wouldn't trust him to tell me straight anyway. So my opposition to him being mayor is

1) he's a socialist who's made comments and teased policy that leans communist.

2) He's a politician and I have a natural distrust for them. Plus I don't know what his beliefs are, for instance what extent does he follow Sharia and adhere to the Hadith etc. For many, if not most Muslims, especially here, it's likely not going to be an issue. But there is your kernel of truth, whether you accept it or not it is valid.

Him being Muslim is way down on my list and only in respect to the possibility that his faith CAN be incompatible with American values, although I concede it's likely not to be an issue in his case.
 
#4,125
#4,125
KB5252 said:
You are picking a handful of people and attributing apprehension of the majority to the standard they set.
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"The majority" aren't apprehensive, which is why he keeps winning even among Jews. If you mean the majority of the people who are apprehensive, it sounds like they are "picking a handful" of terrorists on 9/11 and attributing that to the majority of Muslims.

I am not worried about the average Muslim (who in this case, btw, has lived in NYC since age 7) being "incompatible with American values" any more than the average person from anywhere else. And this is my point again, when it's raised that people look at Muslims differently and negatively and discriminate against them it's always "yes, and here's why that's rational," which is f***ing insane
 
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