Our Fans - Mind Blowing.

#26
#26
How do you know that he wasn't?

What did you hear from the press conference indicating he did make the attempt?

One conversation. That's the only attempt you make to retain your best coach who is the reason you are investing $100,000,000 into a baseball facility?

And was that conversation even an attempt to keep him?

Judging from the press conference, I doubt that was the gist of the one communication White bothered making with Vitello.
 
#27
#27
What did you hear from the press conference indicating he did make the attempt?

One conversation. That's the only attempt you make to retain your best coach who is the reason your are investing $100,000,000 into a baseball facility?

And was that conversation even an attempt to keep him?

Judging from the press conference, I doubt that was the gist of the one communication White bothered making with Vitello.
You are the one making the claim that he didn't try and keep him or that they had one conversation. I am not making claims either way about that. I thought that DW came off poorly in that presser, but you are reading things into various statements he made based on that fact that you've already come to the conclusion as to what happened. DW never said or implied the things you are claiming he said.

What I can't get past with this situation, as much as it sucks, is that even if DW got down on his knees and kissed TV's shoes begging him to stay I don't think he was going to. TV just accepted one of the 5 or 6 best jobs that exist in his line of work. He wasn't going to say no. It doesn't mean that the decision wasn't hard, because I do think the guy genuinely loves Tennessee. But he never was going to say no to this particular job. It's just too big of an opportunity, no matter how much he loved his current gig.

If TV left for any other college job, or for a really crappy MLB job, then I'd be right there with the mob wondering if we had a chance to retain him but screwed something up. However, in this case, the job he left for is the reason why he left.
 
#28
#28
What's mind blowing is those that don't listen to baseball players at and connected with the university. Tony didn't want to go. It's not the opportunity of a lifetime if you don't want a job elsewhere and want to stay where you are at. Our sorry athletic director talked with him ONCE in two weeks (have one report that was through another person) which made Tony's mind up that he was being 'helped' out the door by DW. Tony was the face of UT. No other coach here can hold his jock strap with what he has done. DW has alienated a portion of the fan base. If it takes losing in all the sports to get Danny White fired then a lot of us are for it. Karma for Danny White......it can't be soon enough.
I’m not happy with how DW handled things, but in no way do I want our other coaches to fail so that we can fire him. Seriously?
 
#29
#29
What's mind blowing is those that don't listen to baseball players at and connected with the university. Tony didn't want to go. It's not the opportunity of a lifetime if you don't want a job elsewhere and want to stay where you are at. Our sorry athletic director talked with him ONCE in two weeks (have one report that was through another person) which made Tony's mind up that he was being 'helped' out the door by DW. Tony was the face of UT. No other coach here can hold his jock strap with what he has done. DW has alienated a portion of the fan base. If it takes losing in all the sports to get Danny White fired then a lot of us are for it. Karma for Danny White......it can't be soon enough.
What a miserable pathetic loser
 
#30
#30
ipsa res loquitur

* CTV was not applying for major league managerial jobs
* Approaching CTV was the Giants' idea (likely Buster Posey alone)
* Despite being approached with a big time managerial job that would make history, CTV still hesitated a long time to say yes.

What amazing, is CTV likely never even thought his career track would take him to the dugout of a major league team- especially one of the top franchises.


Further,

I'm not sure Danny White could have managed CTV's decision any differently. I don't think anyone at the university could have made an offer that CTV couldn't refuse.

However, I am concerned how the search is being conducted. I hope this is just a facade.
 
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#31
#31
You are the one making the claim that he didn't try and keep him or that they had one conversation. I am not making claims either way about that. I thought that DW came off poorly in that presser, but you are reading things into various statements he made based on that fact that you've already come to the conclusion as to what happened. DW never said or implied the things you are claiming he said.

What I can't get past with this situation, as much as it sucks, is that even if DW got down on his knees and kissed TV's shoes begging him to stay I don't think he was going to. TV just accepted one of the 5 or 6 best jobs that exist in his line of work. He wasn't going to say no. It doesn't mean that the decision wasn't hard, because I do think the guy genuinely loves Tennessee. But he never was going to say no to this particular job. It's just too big of an opportunity, no matter how much he loved his current gig.

If TV left for any other college job, or for a really crappy MLB job, then I'd be right there with the mob wondering if we had a chance to retain him but screwed something up. However, in this case, the job he left for is the reason why he left.
I am making the claim based on White's press conference.

He didn't need to get on his knees.

But it makes no sense, even in a situation where the offer is elite in scope, to allow your best to walk when he hesitates taking that offer.

A failure to communicate with your coaches, people you depend on to keep your athletics program humming, is not something to applaud. Don't care if the offer on the table was from the Giants of San Francisco or the Giants of Tokyo. You don't let your elite coach walk without making a concerted effort to retain him.

At no point in that press conference did Danny White say he made such an effort. Not one time.
 
#32
#32
I am making the claim based on White's press conference.

He didn't need to get on his knees.

But it makes no sense, even in a situation where the offer is elite in scope, to allow your best to walk when he hesitates taking that offer.

A failure to communicate with your coaches, people you depend on to keep your athletics program humming, is not something to applaud. Don't care if the offer on the table was from the Giants of San Francisco or the Giants of Tokyo. You don't let your elite coach walk without making a concerted effort to retain him.

At no point in that press conference did Danny White say he made such an effort. Not one time.
My gosh dude. You don't know that the bolded part didn't happen.
 
#34
#34
A guy who rarely talks to his coaches, by his own admission, suddenly got on his knees and begged Vitello to stay?

That is an incredible stretch to make, one not indicated at all by anything Danny White said.
Last post on this. You are a master at reading things into what people have said that they actually didn't say, which makes it really hard to have a productive back and forth.

DW never said he "rarely" talks to coaches. I never said that DW did everything he could to get TV to stay.

You are the one making the claim that he did nothing, which is what I keep questioning how you know that.
 
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#35
#35
You've already arrived at your conclusion as to what happened and are going back and interpreting past events in a way that fits the conclusion. That's totally your prerogative, but not the best way to look at situations. I wouldn't say that based on DW's press conference (which was a rare L for him, I will concede) he "couldn't be bothered" to keep TV. He didn't say that at all, and I don't think it was implied or said between the lines either.

The situation I laid out with Heup is entirely the equivalent situation. The SF Giants is a top 5 or 6 managerial job in MLB. I know we are all Vols here first and foremost, but Knoxville and the sport of college baseball generally is not exactly the center of the baseball universe. TV seems like an extremely ambitious guy who derives a lot of motivation from people telling him that he can't do something. I don't think there was anything anybody at Tennessee could do to talk him out of ultimately taking the job, although by his own admission it was a really hard decision for him. Someone like TV is simply not going to pass an opportunity like that up. He clearly loves Tennessee, but I bet he would strongly regret passing up a chance to see if he would swim in the biggest pond in his industry.
The Optics:

Took what, close to two weeks to make the final decision to leave? That's a lot of hesitation for such a grand opportunity with arguably one the Top 3 MLB jobs in existance ever.

Minimal direct communication from DW to TV.

Press conference. The little things that weren't said.

TV's released statement today and the things he carried on about as far as the team, the town, etc, etc. He's releasing another statemtn soon on the decision to go to the Giants more specifically so you're gonna have to piece them together.

The optics don't bode well. The "between the lines reading" and "the things not said" leave a ton of room for conjecture based on some of DW's comments. But who am I. But, if my wife says she's thinking about leaving, I'm not sending my son to go talk to her.
 
#36
#36
The Optics:

Took what, close to two weeks to make the final decision to leave? That's a lot of hesitation for such a grand opportunity with arguably one the Top 3 MLB jobs in existance ever.

Minimal direct communication from DW to TV.

Press conference. The little things that weren't said.

TV's released statement today and the things he carried on about as far as the team, the town, etc, etc. He's releasing another statemtn soon on the decision to go to the Giants more specifically so you're gonna have to piece them together.

The optics don't bode well. The "between the lines reading" and "the things not said" leave a ton of room for conjecture based on some of DW's comments. But who am I. But, if my wife says she's thinking about leaving, I'm not sending my son to go talk to her.
The optics are bad. I don't disagree with anything that you said. I was just taking issue with Herman's absolute certainty of knowing what did or didn't happen.

It doesn't take much reading between the lines to see that TV and DW didn't have the greatest relationship. However, I think there's 2 other factors to consider: 1) their less than great relationship was probably a "it takes two to tango situation" and 2) the job TV left for was such a compelling opportunity he was going to take it regardless of the relationship with his boss.

Just because TV was going to take the job the whole time in all likelihood doesn't mean he was going to jump on it in a nanosecond with no reservations. I do think he genuinely loves UT and (most) of the people here, which made it emotionally hard. He also has an agent notorious for not leaving a cent on the table; that surely was part of the delay.
 
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#37
#37
I watched the press conference.

Want to know what we didn't hear from Danny White:

"I did everything I could to keep him in Knoxville."
Once he became a national celebrity it was open season. He appeared on every sports talk program east to west over the last 18 months. I think this opened his eyes to the lack of upward mobility in a non-profit sport. He Made the move before his 15 minutes of fame were used up.
 
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#38
#38
Last post on this. You are a master at reading things into what people have said that they actually didn't say, which makes it really hard to have a productive back and forth.

DW never said he "rarely" talks to coaches. I never said that DW did everything he could to get TV to stay.

You are the one making the claim that he did nothing, which is what I keep questioning how you know that.
Maybe not, but did not say in the presser he talked to TV once in the last how many days of knowing? Was it not important enough to handle directly more than once and keep the coffee boy out of it?? The fact TV apparently loved the school and program so much is the only thing that drug out his decision so long for THAT MLB job when he saw the errand boy at his door. Sorry. If that was me, and that's who showed up to try and keep me, my first thought is if I mean that little to my direct boss, I'll leave my keys on my desk this evening when I leave for the airport.

Is it a reason to call for DW's job? Crazy talk.

Is it a reason to call him out on how he handled it? 100%. It don't take a man almost two weeks to accept a SF Giants offer that was itching to get out the door for something no other college coach has ever done. He went as long as he could waiting on something, whatever it was in his mind, and it didn't happen. And he's not rolling up shop and cutting ties to East Tn apparently either.

If I was a betting man, I'd say TV always leaves the door open to return some day when the job is open again...if DW has moved on somewhere else.

Erlander must be thinking, dang how am I gonna be viewed if I get the job if that's how it went with TV. Can't tell me him and TV didn't talk over beers. He's the one person that knows everything that no one else does.

Right, wrong or indifferent this whole situation is all about the optics and the unsaids. Only one way to put it to rest and TV ain't gonna be that guy.
 
#39
#39
The optics are bad. I don't disagree with anything that you said. I was just taking issue with Herman's absolute certainty of knowing what did or didn't happen.

It doesn't take much reading between the lines to see that TV and DW didn't have the greatest relationship. However, I think there's 2 other factors to consider: 1) their less than great relationship was probably a "it takes two to tango situation" and 2) the job TV left for was such a compelling opportunity he was going to take it regardless of the relationship with his boss.

Just because TV was going to take the job the whole time in all likelihood doesn't mean he was going to jump on it in a nanosecond with no reservations. I do think he genuinely loves UT and (most) of the people here, which made it emotionally hard. He also has an agent notorious for not leaving a cent on the table; that surely was part of the delay.
I got no dog in the show other than being a UT fan anything. I don't donate. Got no connections. But.....

TV built a baseball program no other coach has. He didn't get rennovations and stuff first. He got it because of what he got done. And he's the most popular university personality east of the Mississippi.

I feel there's enough there, and not there, to be 100% confident DW effed this one up.

Fireable offense? No.

Man up and be accountable? "Hey maybe there was opportunity to keep him and I misread the difficulty of his decision making for considering such a move. It was the Giants afterall. Maybe I was feeling there was nothing I could say considering the team that made him the offer." Be a big boy and pony up a little.

Maybe there was friction, but the only major sport HC to bring home a title under your employ has a decision to make. Who cares if your not buddy buddy like you and CJH. Maybe TV could be a little difficult. I personally don't know. But, Ioved the guy. He was my favorite coach. Gotta give a guy like that room. Show some interest in his decision. Tell him you want him to stay if there's anything the two of can discuss or clear up to make that happen. If that didn't work, then you know without a doubt it was all about the SF job opportunity and you said what you could without regret. He earned that much from DW.
 
#41
#41
What's mind blowing is those that don't listen to baseball players at and connected with the university. Tony didn't want to go. It's not the opportunity of a lifetime if you don't want a job elsewhere and want to stay where you are at. Our sorry athletic director talked with him ONCE in two weeks (have one report that was through another person) which made Tony's mind up that he was being 'helped' out the door by DW. Tony was the face of UT. No other coach here can hold his jock strap with what he has done. DW has alienated a portion of the fan base. If it takes losing in all the sports to get Danny White fired then a lot of us are for it. Karma for Danny White......it can't be soon enough.
👆🏻I’m not for firing DW, but everything else you said is true. Things are still happening behind the scenes that I don’t agree with. Things DW is saying & doing.

I stated in another thread and will say again….. what Danny has accomplished in such a short time is amazing. He should be appreciated for it. I’ll never forgive him for the TV situation, which he created. If you don’t think that you’re more than welcome to be wrong.

But at the same time we’re worse off if DW wasn’t here right now. I’m dang emotionally upset about TV leaving. But I still want the best AD at the helm and despite his recent mistake, Danny is that guy. Maybe in the future someone else takes over and keeps the train going. But for now it needs to be him.
 
#43
#43
I have told y’all for six years that it is hard becoming a Tennessee fan because of the Tennessee fans. I love the ones that are on here all year long but the ones that show up on bad ball games and especially the last two weeks makes it very hard to become a diehard fan when you didn’t grow up one.
I will say for me first I appreciate what your family brought here (and I know you’re not asking for that recognition). Secondly, personally I try not to be that kind of fan. Vol fandom is so engrained in my life, I don’t understand a life without it. It’s a part of me forever. Sometimes that type of passion which I believe is unmatched causes knee jerk reactions because of the emotion involved. While I feel like as fans, jumping on the “fire Danny” bandwagon is an overreaction, I understand the emotion behind it. Tony felt like family.
 
#45
#45
Maybe not, but did not say in the presser he talked to TV once in the last how many days of knowing? Was it not important enough to handle directly more than once and keep the coffee boy out of it?? The fact TV apparently loved the school and program so much is the only thing that drug out his decision so long for THAT MLB job when he saw the errand boy at his door. Sorry. If that was me, and that's who showed up to try and keep me, my first thought is if I mean that little to my direct boss, I'll leave my keys on my desk this evening when I leave for the airport.

Is it a reason to call for DW's job? Crazy talk.

Is it a reason to call him out on how he handled it? 100%. It don't take a man almost two weeks to accept a SF Giants offer that was itching to get out the door for something no other college coach has ever done. He went as long as he could waiting on something, whatever it was in his mind, and it didn't happen. And he's not rolling up shop and cutting ties to East Tn apparently either.

If I was a betting man, I'd say TV always leaves the door open to return some day when the job is open again...if DW has moved on somewhere else.

Erlander must be thinking, dang how am I gonna be viewed if I get the job if that's how it went with TV. Can't tell me him and TV didn't talk over beers. He's the one person that knows everything that no one else does.

Right, wrong or indifferent this whole situation is all about the optics and the unsaids. Only one way to put it to rest and TV ain't gonna be that guy.
DW never said in the presser that he talked to TV once while all this was going on. I don't know where that keeps coming from. I've also never disagreed that DW's communication style, based on how he himself communicated with TV, sounds kind of aloof and distant. I don't think that necessarily means that he "did nothing" to keep TV or "ran him off," like many are saying. In DW's mind, perhaps he thought making him the highest paid baseball coach and spearheading a nine-figure stadium expansion and reno was making a pretty big effort to keep TV. It wasn't all that long ago that everyone here was heaping praise on DW for doing that, in contrast to previous ADs we had, who many thought wouldn't have done that. There's also scuttlebutt that TV can be difficult to deal with too and can be unreasonable in his demands. I think there's a lot going on here and when you consider it all, combined with the fact that the job is a once-in-a-lifetime thing for Tony, it isn't anybody's "fault."

I don't think TV was "itching to get out the door." I never said that. I said it is a job that he was always going to take. Just because it's an opportunity he was always going to take doesn't mean that it was easy to walk away from his current gig. It's like dropping your kid off at Kindergarten for the first time. Is it hard? Yes. Are you going to linger a little bit, make the hug a little tighter, look at them through the window as you walk away from the classroom? Yes. Are you still going to do drop them off? Yes, because they need to go to school and you need to go to work.
 
#47
#47
I swear we have the most passionate fans in college sports but half of us are retarded (can I say that?).

It's reasonable to expect our head coaching compensation / packages to be competitive with the SEC. One may even stretch it to, with our resources, we should be getting and keeping the best coaches in college sports. But to EXPECT us to compete with the Yankees, MLB baseball (the GIANTS)...is mental. To say "if we wanted to keep him he'd still be here." when this guy had to him what may be an opportunity of a lifetime...is wildly crazy.

Then to want the AD DW fired...is even more wild. Is there another athletic department in the country who has more athletic programs top 25 ranked year in and year out? If that isn't a taking things for granted and a "be careful what you wish for" situation in the making I don't know what is. Every sport that matters (and some that don't) is, has been recently, is near, or will be top 10 ranked and y'all want the AD fired???? Have y'all lost your minds???
I realized a long time ago every fan base has this element within it. Some louder than others. Coming from a family who played, coached, and administrated at these levels I assure you they ALL understand and realize those people exist. If you read TV's statement, he actually joked about it, said he NEVER read that stuff, and accidental read one that must have been totally insane. They simply have a job to do and NEVER let the fringe elements interfere with doing said job. Now if those ridiculous statements were made by a donor who's name sits atop one of our beloved buildings....yeah you pay attention...otherwise...nah! Of course if we had those "distractions" in our careers it would probably devastate us.😂 🤷‍♂️
 
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#49
#49
This would be like the Head FB Coach at McCallie HS (Chattanooga) getting an offer to be the Tennessee Head Football Coach during an opening and then all of the McCallie fans blaming the McCallie AD for not being able to keep him and saying "Joel Bradford really liked it at McCallie, I just don't understand why he left." We would be thinking...really, you don't understand why he left?

It's craziness!

No college coach is passing up a managerial position in the MLB especially with a team like the Giants. Who the college AD is at the time is irrelevant. Yes he had to "think" about it. That's what a coach in a good situation should be doing, talking with his family....weighing out pros and cons, because like with Saban and Pitino it doesn't always work out in the pros. They were also likely working out the details of his Giants contract during that time. In the end it was too good to pass up. End of story. How this could be in any way, shape, or form DW's fault is beyond me.
 
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