The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

[Vol49er]

I’ve been critical of DW with how the proverbial “common fan” has been treated by the athletic department under his reign. But I can’t see criticizing him for this really. The success we’ve had in recruiting in baseball, plus TV’s salary, plus the investment of the stadium tells me he’s been plenty generous supporting baseball. If we also had to stroke TV’s ego to make him stay, I feel like that’s a reason to be upset with TV rather than DW. Which maybe speak to Chris’ point, there may be multiple sides to “blame”, but I wouldn’t blame anybody. Tony was the best coach in college baseball and felt slighted easily, and Danny wasn’t the best at massaging his ego when he felt, in my view, based on the avaliable info, inaccurately, slightly. So Tony found the prestige he needed, and Danny I’m sure will hire a good coach (who, admittedly, will almost certainly not have the same level of success)

Granted, baseball is well behind basketball and football for me, and a bit behind women’s basketball. And I didn’t love all the antics associated with the team (though I felt like it wasn’t as much the last couple years). So maybe if those two things were different I’d feel different

 

[The Dog]

Tony hit the lottery, not with money, but the opportunity of a lifetime. The first to ever go from college to "The Show" with no prior MLB experience. I am sure Tony loves UT and Danny probably could have done more to try and keep him. Tony is a winner and has an ego. He, also, seems to really want to make his Dad proud of him, managing in the MLB and being the first, is just another way to do that. It was an offer, he couldn't refuse, imo.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Quote from Tony…

“The other thing here — why would you want to be a VFL and why it’s easy to have success? The athletic department. It truly is a sorority and fraternity amongst us as coaches. Danny White’s leadership, not just on the financial end with the buildings and the other things that have gone on here — just (the) direction of hiring the right people at all these specific sports sites on our campus. It goes up to (Chancellor) Donde (Plowman), who is so energetic and the same person you see every day. Of course, (University President) Randy Boyd is probably, I don’t know the other university presidents, but it’s pretty unique. How all that falls in line makes it easier on— where it’s never easy in our league, or now across the nation to have success. They put all of us in a position to have success.”



Now I’m sure some will say, well he had to say that, no he didn’t…he’s on to the pros and owes DW nothing, he could’ve not said anything about him and that would’ve been fine, but he made sure to address that situation and praise DW while also acknowledging that he was putting a position to have success.

 

[volfaninpa]

Quote from Tony…

“The other thing here — why would you want to be a VFL and why it’s easy to have success? The athletic department. It truly is a sorority and fraternity amongst us as coaches. Danny White’s leadership, not just on the financial end with the buildings and the other things that have gone on here — just (the) direction of hiring the right people at all these specific sports sites on our campus. It goes up to (Chancellor) Donde (Plowman), who is so energetic and the same person you see every day. Of course, (University President) Randy Boyd is probably, I don’t know the other university presidents, but it’s pretty unique. How all that falls in line makes it easier on— where it’s never easy in our league, or now across the nation to have success. They put all of us in a position to have success.”



Now I’m sure some will say, well he had to say that, no he didn’t…he’s on to the pros and owes DW nothing, he could’ve not said anything about him and that would’ve been fine, but he made sure to address that situation and praise DW while also acknowledging that he was putting a position to have success.

Agree with you. He could have complimented UT's leadership and left it at that, but did more than that and complimented DW by name.

Who knows? Maybe Tony V comes back one day and runs the Athletic Department?

 

[cncchris33]

Quote from Tony…

“The other thing here — why would you want to be a VFL and why it’s easy to have success? The athletic department. It truly is a sorority and fraternity amongst us as coaches. Danny White’s leadership, not just on the financial end with the buildings and the other things that have gone on here — just (the) direction of hiring the right people at all these specific sports sites on our campus. It goes up to (Chancellor) Donde (Plowman), who is so energetic and the same person you see every day. Of course, (University President) Randy Boyd is probably, I don’t know the other university presidents, but it’s pretty unique. How all that falls in line makes it easier on— where it’s never easy in our league, or now across the nation to have success. They put all of us in a position to have success.”



Now I’m sure some will say, well he had to say that, no he didn’t…he’s on to the pros and owes DW nothing, he could’ve not said anything about him and that would’ve been fine, but he made sure to address that situation and praise DW while also acknowledging that he was putting a position to have success.

As predicted...

I can assure you there was friction around this topic, and it could've been solved. I can also assure you that when TV finally comments, he'll take the high road and focus on how much he loves the team, fans, town, university etc. He'll say that he got his dream chance to coach in the MLB, and do it with a good friend. Don't look for him to get in the mud. Not his style. All the hints you needed were in DW's press conference and his comment about how often (not often) they talk. TV was absolutely demanding, but he also delivered. You just don't let that guy go.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

As predicted...

He also said Hiter was a Vol fwiw…I’ve said they weren’t bff’s, but Tony didn’t have to go out of his way to acknowledge DW, he could’ve not touched it at all. Could DW have gave Tony 75% of rev share and $1m raise and he would’ve stayed, probably say, but as I’ve said all along that wasn’t exactly what I would consider a realistic option.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

 

[cncchris33]

He also said Hiter was a Vol fwiw…I’ve said they weren’t bff’s, but Tony didn’t have to go out of his way to acknowledge DW, he could’ve not touched it at all. Could DW have gave Tony 75% of rev share and $1m raise and he would’ve stayed, probably say, but as I’ve said all along that wasn’t exactly what I would consider a realistic option.

So, now @Stoerner Fumbles is catching strays because a kid changed his mind? I think you know recruiting works, especially in today's environment.

And while technically true that Vitello didn't have to mention Danny White by name, if he acknowledges Donde Plowman and Randy Boyd, both of whom he seemingly had great relationships with, then the implication of choosing to not mention Danny White would instead be picked apart.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

I don’t think it should be surprising how Tony handled his remarks. He’s not going to throw the university under the bus. It’s not his style. And I don’t think it’s surprising that Barnes, a university employee, is going to defend how the university handled things.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

He also said Hiter was a Vol fwiw…I’ve said they weren’t bff’s, but Tony didn’t have to go out of his way to acknowledge DW, he could’ve not touched it at all. Could DW have gave Tony 75% of rev share and $1m raise and he would’ve stayed, probably say, but as I’ve said all along that wasn’t exactly what I would consider a realistic option.

I have no interest in assigning fault. I said a few times they each have egos, and their own pov. TV was fatigued on having to win each recruiting battle on dollars, after having won it on substance. He wanted to be dollar for dollar equal to anyone we recruited against. That’s a high bar, but maybe not too high given what he delivered. Not for me to call. He addressed DW, the university etc on the merits, but also because it’s on brand and rumors were out. He did the right thing for managing his image, his relationships, and also because he meant it. He also communicated what both sides AGREED he would communicate. No one wants bad blood or burned bridges. The guy absolutely loved the town, people, experience, school etc. He respects the support he was given and even respected DW. Both are pros. He did not get the requested ammunition, was getting tired of the arms race in money recruiting, and DW dug in. Here we are. My personal opinion is you absolutely do everything to make TV stay. That’s just my opinion. There are those in the AD, who see it differently. That’s ok. I was on the record before he spoke because I knew what he’d say. He’s a very smart communicator, he’s a brand, and he’s a once in a lifetime college coach. That’s all part of why it’s such a big loss. Onwards.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

I have interest in assigning fault. I said a few times they each have egos, and their own pov. TV was fatigued on having to win each recruiting battle on dollars, after having won it on substance. He wanted to be dollar for dollar equal to anyone we recruited against. That’s a high bar, but maybe not too high given what he delivered. Not for me to call. He addressed DW, the university etc on the merits, but also because it’s on brand and rumors were out. He did the right thing for managing his image, his relationships, and also because he meant it. He also communicated what both sides AGREED he would communicate. No one wants bad blood or burned bridges. The guy absolutely loved the town, people, experience, school etc. He respects the support he was given and even respected DW. Both are pros. He did not get the requested ammunition, was getting tired of the arms race in money recruiting, and DW dug in. Here we are. My personal opinion is you absolutely do everything to make TV stay. That’s just my opinion. There are those in the AD, who see it differently. That’s ok. I was on the record before he spoke because I knew what he’d say. He’s a very smart communicator, he’s a brand, and he’s a once in a lifetime college coach. That’s all part of why it’s such a big loss. Onwards.

To your last point, he was not only an effective communicator he was a university ambassador. I know we’re a “football school” but TV was arguably the voice of the university. Heupel is essentially a robot. His press conferences are pure coach speak. He is boring to listen to. I think that is where TV’s value extended beyond just being a great baseball coach. He was extremely visible both nationally and in the community. I will miss that.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

He also said Hiter was a Vol fwiw…I’ve said they weren’t bff’s, but Tony didn’t have to go out of his way to acknowledge DW, he could’ve not touched it at all. Could DW have gave Tony 75% of rev share and $1m raise and he would’ve stayed, probably say, but as I’ve said all along that wasn’t exactly what I would consider a realistic option.

I enjoy your obsessiveness about stats and have fun debating you when you’re open to learning. There are times when you’re relentless pursuit of “being right” clouds your judgement materially, but so it goes in an Internet forum. I’m not sure why you’d come at me over Hiter. I, along with a lot of people in the program, including our coaches, believed he was coming here. I share what I hear, along with my perspective and try to be clear about the distinction. When I hear something that is accurate at the time, but changes, I don’t offer downside insurance. It’s part of the game.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

So, now @Stoerner Fumbles is catching strays because a kid changed his mind? I think you know recruiting works, especially in today's environment.

And while technically true that Vitello didn't have to mention Danny White by name, if he acknowledges Donde Plowman and Randy Boyd, both of whom he seemingly had great relationships with, then the implication of choosing to not mention Danny White would instead be picked apart.

Again, he could’ve not mentioned any by name. You can go the opposite way, I’ve already said most folks seem to have their mind made up and will disregard one statement while putting stock in another, this is just another fact and this one directly from Tony’s mouth that suggests the relationship wasn’t nearly as bad as many make it seem and that this likely was happening even if Danny was his best friend.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I don’t think it should be surprising how Tony handled his remarks. He’s not going to throw the university under the bus. It’s not his style. And I don’t think it’s surprising that Barnes, a university employee, is going to defend how the university handled things.

He could’ve left the entire paragraph out, he doesn’t owe them anything, he’s on to the pros.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I have interest in assigning fault. I said a few times they each have egos, and their own pov. TV was fatigued on having to win each recruiting battle on dollars, after having won it on substance. He wanted to be dollar for dollar equal to anyone we recruited against. That’s a high bar, but maybe not too high given what he delivered. Not for me to call. He addressed DW, the university etc on the merits, but also because it’s on brand and rumors were out. He did the right thing for managing his image, his relationships, and also because he meant it. He also communicated what both sides AGREED he would communicate. No one wants bad blood or burned bridges. The guy absolutely loved the town, people, experience, school etc. He respects the support he was given and even respected DW. Both are pros. He did not get the requested ammunition, was getting tired of the arms race in money recruiting, and DW dug in. Here we are. My personal opinion is you absolutely do everything to make TV stay. That’s just my opinion. There are those in the AD, who see it differently. That’s ok. I was on the record before he spoke because I knew what he’d say. He’s a very smart communicator, he’s a brand, and he’s a once in a lifetime college coach. That’s all part of why it’s such a big loss. Onwards.

I don’t think I disagree with anything you’re saying…like I’ve said could White have offered him the 75% rev share football was getting and Tony be happy, sure, but that’s not realistic for the success of an athletic department. Obviously I’m being a bit over the top in that number, but the point stands regardless. Like you said it’s a hard bar to meet, I’m sure many would’ve liked it done and in all likelihood would matching Arkansas or LSU kept Tony, probably not ultimately from what I’ve heard. Boosters were willing to commit to NIL to just baseball that would’ve more than made the difference of the rev share, in the end he’d have had as much if more more $$$ to go around, but he chose to head to the big leagues and I don’t think many fault him for that.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I enjoy your obsessiveness about stats and have fun debating you when you’re open to learning. There are times when you’re relentless pursuit of “being right” clouds your judgement materially, but so it goes in an Internet forum. I’m not sure why you’d come at me over Hiter. I, along with a lot of people in the program, including our coaches, believed he was coming here. I share what I hear, along with my perspective and try to be clear about the distinction. When I hear something that is accurate at the time, but changes, I don’t offer downside insurance. It’s part of the game.

Wasn’t meant to come at you, just that the info we receive isn’t always spot on and can vary depending on who’s delivering it. All I was saying on that.

 

[VFL10]

@bleedingTNorange @Stoerner Fumbles really appreciate what both of you guys bring to the board and share the info you hear. For those of us who don't have a direct connection to the university or live in the area, it is so very much needed for us to feel validation or acceptance in the finality of this situation. I am still gutted V left but it sounds like it is ultimately what he wanted to do in his heart whether he had a better relationship with DW or not. What do y'all think will happen with Elander? I am afraid if he doesn't get the job things may get pretty ugly from a fan interest and former player pride perspective.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

@bleedingTNorange @Stoerner Fumbles really appreciate what both of you guys bring to the board and share the info you hear. For those of us who don't have a direct connection to the university or live in the area, it is so very much needed for us to feel validation or acceptance in the finality of this situation. I am still gutted V left but it sounds like it is ultimately what he wanted to do in his heart whether he had a better relationship with DW or not. What do y'all think will happen with Elander? I am afraid if he doesn't get the job things may get pretty ugly from a fan interest and former player pride perspective.

My thought on that is that this is what Danny in large part is paid to do, make the best hire, and ignore outside noise. If that ends up being Elander cool, if not then I think fans should trust the hire given his track record and give the new guy a shot, not give us part 2 of the whole Bring Back Bruce saga that transpired here. Regardless of the hire White is going to be judged for it, whether it’s Elander or someone else if in 3 years we suck and the stadium is empty he’s catching blame for it, so he needs to hire who he truly feels is the best man for the job and not let outside noise or even inside player noise effect that decision.

 

[cncchris33]

Wasn’t meant to come at you, just that the info we receive isn’t always spot on and can vary depending on who’s delivering it. All I was saying on that.

To borrow from your own line of logic re: Vitello's statement mentioning Danny White, you, too, could've left the entire statement out.

You certainly brought it up quickly as evidence as a means of discrediting the more current statement from Stoerner Fumbles on the relationship between Vitello and White. Don't be disingenuous about that, now. You essentially said, "He was wrong about that, so how do we know he's right about this?" That was your intent.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

To borrow from your own line of logic re: Vitello's statement mentioning Danny White, you, too, could've left the entire statement out.

You certainly brought it up quickly as evidence as a means of discrediting the more current statement from Stoerner Fumbles on the relationship between Vitello and White. Don't be disingenuous about that, now. You essentially said, "He was wrong about that, so how do we know he's right about this?" That was your intent.

That’s pretty much what my reply to him said, his info about that wasn’t correct, you speak to different people and you’ll get different answers, same as with the Tony situation. SF is a big boy, he knows I’m not coming at him personally, I don’t think he needs you to be his bodyguard but if it makes you feel needed carryon.

 

[cncchris33]

That’s pretty much what my reply to him said, his info about that wasn’t correct, you speak to different people and you’ll get different answers, same as with the Tony situation. SF is a big boy, he knows I’m not coming at him personally, I don’t think he needs you to be his bodyguard but if it makes you feel needed carryon.

The way you get triggered when someone challenges your narrative is comical. Mental midget type stuff.

You're right, though...SF doesn't need me to step to the plate for him. I'd try to explain how that isn't, at all, what I was attempting to do, but as is your preference to remain willfully obtuse, it would be a waste of time.

However, since I brought his information into the fold in this particular forum, I do feel a responsibility to stand by it in the same way you're apparently married to your idea that that very information is erroneous.

 

[VolGee4]

I don’t think it should be surprising how Tony handled his remarks. He’s not going to throw the university under the bus. It’s not his style. And I don’t think it’s surprising that Barnes, a university employee, is going to defend how the university handled things.

Well, Barnes has been honest about some things that came back to bite him. He has also praised Danny White WELL before all of this. I have no reason to doubt Rick Barnes.

I also think TV genuinely struggled with the decision, and I would love to hold him to coming back to our university.

 

[cncchris33]

Well, Barnes has been honest about some things that came back to bite him. He has also praised Danny White WELL before all of this. I have no reason to doubt Rick Barnes.

I also think TV genuinely struggled with the decision, and I would love to hold him to coming back to our university.

Barnes is also a tamer personality, especially at his age, now, and is quite a bit more straight-laced than Tony Vitello. I'd imagine he gives Danny White far fewer headaches. His program is also rather profitable, so Danny White keeping closer tabs on him is not too foreign an idea. I have no doubt their relationship is probably on solid footing. Barnes is also only a threat to go one place at this point in his career, and that is to the house. He is an easy manage for the AD.

 

[VolGee4]

Barnes is also a tamer personality, especially at his age, now, and is quite a bit more straight-laced than Tony Vitello. I'd imagine he gives Danny White far fewer headaches. His program is also rather profitable, so Danny White keeping closer tabs on him is not too foreign an idea. I have no doubt their relationship is probably on solid footing. Barnes is also only a threat to go one place at this point in his career, and that is to the house. He is an easy manage for the AD.

Well, sure. I am guessing Danny White wasn't thrilled with having to deal with the Maui Ahuna ordeal and with the other noise from the baseball program. There was also a suggestion that White wasn't thrilled with us having roughly 40 on the roster when the December 1 deadline to get to 36 is looming. It all comes with TV.

But I take Rick Barnes at face value. He doesn't hold back on his honesty, and that's been proven. He could always avoid the topic, but he has praised Danny White for several years now.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

The way you get triggered when someone challenges your narrative is comical. Mental midget type stuff.

You're right, though...SF doesn't need me to step to the plate for him. I'd try to explain how that isn't, at all, what I was attempting to do, but as is your preference to remain willfully obtuse, it would be a waste of time.

However, since I brought his information into the fold in this particular forum, I do feel a responsibility to stand by it in the same way you're apparently married to your idea that that very information is erroneous.

Lol ok