The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

[omghulkhands]

Fair. But I mean it. I’m done. Not worth emotionally investing once Rick is gone.

Why?

Football is fine. We were so mediocre to bad for so long, I’ll gladly accept these Mark Richt-esque seasons for several more years.

And Baseball, I don’t even know what’s worth being mad about. Our coach was so good he went to the fricken Giants. There was nothing stopping that once he got the call. Nothing.

We’ll promote Elander and be fine.

And Basketball, you got at least 1 more season of Rick.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

Why?

Football is fine. We were so mediocre to bad for so long, I’ll gladly accept these Mark Richt-esque seasons for several more years.

And Baseball, I don’t even know what’s worth being mad about. Our coach was so good he went to the fricken Giants. There was nothing stopping that once he got the call. Nothing.

We’ll promote Elander and be fine.

And Basketball, you got at least 1 more season of Rick.

Simply put, I don’t trust Danny anymore. I’m fine if people disagree with me on that. It’s just my opinion. I have been fairly consistent in my perspective that my red line with Danny, despite some of the price hikes, was keeping Tony happy and here.

By all accounts, we now have Chris Low, Trey Wallace, Chris Burke, and Kendall Rogers all reporting that this didn’t have to happen. I am not a “football is all that matters” person. Never have been. Never will be. From the relationship with Tony to the press conference yesterday, Danny mismanaged this entire thing. And the inside look on how he manages his department has enough red flags for me to recognize this isn’t a one-off.

 

[Mullins2010]

Simply put, I don’t trust Danny anymore. I’m fine if people disagree with me on that. It’s just my opinion. I have been fairly consistent in my perspective that my red line with Danny, despite some of the price hikes, was keeping Tony happy and here.

By all accounts, we now have Chris Low, Trey Wallace, Chris Burke, and Kendall Rogers all reporting that this didn’t have to happen. I am not a “football is all that matters” person. Never have been. Never will be. From the relationship with Tony to the press conference yesterday, Danny mismanaged this entire thing. And the inside look on how he manages his department has enough red flags for me to recognize this isn’t a one-off.

So what's next for you? Since Danny isnt leaving u changing teams or what

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Simply put, I don’t trust Danny anymore. I’m fine if people disagree with me on that. It’s just my opinion. I have been fairly consistent in my perspective that my red line with Danny, despite some of the price hikes, was keeping Tony happy and here.

By all accounts, we now have Chris Low, Trey Wallace, Chris Burke, and Kendall Rogers all reporting that this didn’t have to happen. I am not a “football is all that matters” person. Never have been. Never will be. From the relationship with Tony to the press conference yesterday, Danny mismanaged this entire thing. And the inside look on how he manages his department has enough red flags for me to recognize this isn’t a one-off.

First bold: Hm, where? I’ve seen them say that Tony wanted more, but every coach does, I’ve also seen those same people say that it likely wouldn’t have mattered at the end of the day because Tony wanted a chance to coach in the big leagues and this very well might’ve been it.

Second bold: Do you mean like how he’s managed the most successful 5 year run in Tennessee sports history? Both by a winning metric and dollar metric, aren’t both of those literally the Top 2 metrics in which he’s graded by?

 

[TheMookieMonster]

First bold: Hm, where? I’ve seen them say that Tony wanted more, but every coach does, I’ve also seen those same people say that it likely wouldn’t have mattered at the end of the day because Tony wanted a chance to coach in the big leagues and this very well might’ve been it.

Second bold: Do you mean like how he’s managed the most successful 5 year run in Tennessee sports history? Both by a winning metric and dollar metric, aren’t both of those literally the Top 2 metrics in which he’s graded by?

First bold, yesterday on the D1 Baseball Podcast, Chris Burke said “Books will be written about how this thing went down. I can tell you this was not just about the opportunity with the Giants.” Kendall Rogers agreed with him and said his sources told him the same thing. I’m not sure why Chris Burke, a beloved Vol, would make that up and lie. For Chris Low, he was on the Swain Event today. It was a long segment but he basically said he was told this didn’t have to happen. That it was avoidable.

On your second bullet point, I don’t really care about the “dollar metric”. I’m a fan, not an investor. I think it’s weird that he publicly admitted he did not have much of a relationship with his national championship winning baseball coach. He admitted he and Tony did not talk much and that was ran through his “lieutenants”. He’s been a successful AD here, I won’t deny he’s done some good things because obviously he has, but I also think this successful 5 year run he gets so much credit for was propped up by two coaches he didn’t hire.

 

[Mullins2010]

First bold, yesterday on the D1 Baseball Podcast, Chris Burke said “Books will be written about how this thing went down. I can tell you this was not just about the opportunity with the Giants.” Kendall Rogers agreed with him and said his sources told him the same thing. I’m not sure why Chris Burke, a beloved Vol, would make that up and lie. For Chris Low, he was on the Swain Event today. It was a long segment but he basically said he was told this didn’t have to happen. That it was avoidable.

On your second bullet point, I don’t really care about the “dollar metric”. I’m a fan, not an investor. I think it’s weird that he publicly admitted he did not have much of a relationship with his national championship winning baseball coach. He admitted he and Tony did not talk much and that was ran through his “lieutenants”. He’s been a successful AD here, I won’t deny he’s done some good things because obviously he has, but I also think this successful 5 year run he gets so much credit for was propped up by two coaches he didn’t hire.

He Actually said he and Tony had a great relationship

 

[bleedingTNorange]

First bold, yesterday on the D1 Baseball Podcast, Chris Burke said “Books will be written about how this thing went down. I can tell you this was not just about the opportunity with the Giants.” Kendall Rogers agreed with him and said his sources told him the same thing. I’m not sure why Chris Burke, a beloved Vol, would make that up and lie. For Chris Low, he was on the Swain Event today. It was a long segment but he basically said he was told this didn’t have to happen. That it was avoidable.

On your second bullet point, I don’t really care about the “dollar metric”. I’m a fan, not an investor. I think it’s weird that he publicly admitted he did not have much of a relationship with his national championship winning baseball coach. He admitted he and Tony did not talk much and that was ran through his “lieutenants”. He’s been a successful AD here, I won’t deny he’s done some good things because obviously he has, but I also think this successful 5 year run he gets so much credit for was propped up by two coaches he didn’t hire.

Just as many folks, if not more, have said the opposite…Hubbs, Cain, Price, Lewis, McKee, Callahan, Shump, Rucker. Roger’s said today while acknowledging what you said above that he thought at the end of the day it was about the Giants more than Tennessee. I guess it’s who do you want to believe, because you’ve got people saying both things…for me if Tony and DW were that bad off then Tony would’ve taken the A&M job and significant raise that were coming with it the last 2 years, not taken a pay cut and worse budgeted roster than UT to go to the Giants, and Rogers acknowledged as much.

Well you may not care about the dollar metric but if you like winning programs you might wanna start, I hate to break it to you but the programs that are winning aren’t doing so on pennies & nickels, they’re typically the schools making the most money. Vitello and Barnes aren’t his hires, but I’m not talking just the major 3 sports, look across the entirety of the AD, they’re winning in everything and he’s hired a lot more than just 2 coaches in that 5 year span.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

He Actually said he and Tony had a great relationship

Yes, and then his next sentence was about how he didn’t talk to Tony that often and how Tyler Johnson managed the relationship with the baseball program. I can read between the lines. Of course Danny is going to say he had a good relationship with Tony. Doesn’t mean it’s true. It wasn’t.

You haven’t believed any of the reporting out there on this anyway, so it’s not surprising.

 

[Mullins2010]

Yes, and then his next sentence was about how he didn’t talk to Tony that often and how Tyler Johnson managed the relationship with the baseball roll program. I can read between the lines. Of course Danny is going to say he had a good relationship with Tony. Doesn’t mean it’s true. It wasn’t.

You haven’t believed any of the reporting out there on this anyway, so it’s not surprising.

O reading between the lines...gotcha

 

[bleedingTNorange]

O reading between the lines...gotcha

Some want to read between only certain lines that for their narrative

 

[TheMookieMonster]

Some want to read between only certain lines that for their narrative

Are you not doing the same thing?

 

[Mullins2010]

Some want to read between only certain lines that for their narrative

Saying they couldn't care less if the university makes money is wild lol

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Are you not doing the same thing?

I posted what both sides guys like Roger’s have said and my reasoning for thinking the way I am…I don’t think DW and TV were bff’s, not arguing that, but I don’t think it was so bad Tony just had to leave or that he even really wanted to leave, and that’s pretty evident by the jobs he’s passed on while DW was his boss and elected to stay here. Simply put I don’t think there’s likely anything DW could’ve done that was realistic and wouldn’t have hurt another sport on campus in order to get TV to stay and pass on the MLB

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Saying they couldn't care less if the university makes money is wild lol

Tells you were the logic is on the topic

 

[TheMookieMonster]

I posted what both sides guys like Roger’s have said and my reasoning for thinking the way I am…I don’t think DW and TV were bff’s, not arguing that, but I don’t think it was so bad Tony just had to leave or that he even really wanted to leave, and that’s pretty evident by the jobs he’s passed on while DW was his boss and elected to stay here. Simply put I don’t think there’s likely anything DW could’ve done that was realistic and wouldn’t have hurt another sport on campus in order to get TV to stay and pass on the MLB

That’s fair. Like I said, it’s just my opinion and I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. For most people, their perspective probably depends on how much they value college baseball. I don’t think it comes as I shock I value it a lot, so losing inarguably the best coach in the sport when there is enough reporting saying there was a chance to avoid it is going to rub me the wrong way.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

That’s fair. Like I said, it’s just my opinion and I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. For most people, their perspective probably depends on how much they value college baseball. I don’t think it comes as I shock I value it a lot, so losing inarguably the best coach in the sport when there is enough reporting saying there was a chance to avoid it is going to rub me the wrong way.

Honest question, would you have been good with pulling from football or basketball to make TV happier and he stay? And if your answer is yes, do you think that’s a smart decision by the AD?

 

[cncchris33]

What I hate is how this whole ordeal has created a "Team Tony" and a "Team Danny" narrative, and the belief you have to be 100% one team or the other.

Danny has things that are important to him and they are all tied to money. That's not a secret. Every decision he's made as AD had been made with an eye on the bottom dollar. That's a big part (not the only part) of his job description.

Tony has things that are important to him and they are all tied to personnel tactics. He values loyalty, relationships, appreciation for a job well done. Is he demanding? Sure, but he puts a product on the field that warrants his demands. He also pushes boundaries and feels like his/his team's performance should help cover up a lot of the blemishes their behavior creates. He's not a perfect employee and Danny isn't a perfect boss.

In the end, you had an AD you didn't stroke the ego of his best coach enough because that isn’t "his guy" and by his own admission, his style. Going out of his way to shield Kim Caldwell, an uncomfortable move she probably didn't appreciate, is pretty telling. I don't know how you can watch that press conference and listen to people like Chris Burke, Kendall Rogers, and Chris Low (whose son, Adam, is the Director of Baseball Operations) make the comments they’ve made and not be able to assign some blame to Danny White for the soured relationship.

Tony Vitello wanted to coach major league baseball. That opportunity presented itself, so Danny White can't be the only thing that made him go. But I also don't necessarily believe White did everything he could to keep him because he truly believes he can replace Tony and not skip a beat, and it will be his guy that does it. If it doesn't work out, both parties probably end up with some harbored regret that neither will admit to because they are both too proud.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Agree on the unnecessary and bad look divide going on, and not surprisingly Basilio has been leading that charge as if we needed more evidence of it being a bad idea. As a fan base you sell it that we have a coach who went pro and did something never been done in the history of the sport, you prop up the job and the appeal. Instead we’ve got many wanting to fire DW and push a false narrative about him, that’s doing no good for anyone on this program.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

Honest question, would you have been good with pulling from football or basketball to make TV happier and he stay? And if your answer is yes, do you think that’s a smart decision by the AD?

This debate has been discussed extensively in the baseball forum, so not sure how much to actually re-hash here.

This debate mostly boils down to preferences. I think the baseball program, due to its success, at the very least earned the right to be funded through RevShare at the same rate as the Lady Vols, or even had their percentages swapped since a basketball roster is significantly smaller than a baseball roster, which impacts the average revenue per person on each roster. I know there is a vocal contingent of Lady Vols fans that would disagree with that and say the Lady Vols deserve more, so again, preference.

But, I don’t know if the choice had to be that binary, which is why I think the conversation is more nuanced than just “Which team do we pull money from?” One of the things discussed at length in the baseball forum was that other baseball programs are looking to circumvent the RevShare challenge by operating outside the bounds of the new NIL clearinghouse to find other ways to make up funding players because they don’t anticipate the legal standing of approving NIL deals will hold up. All we have is rumor, so I’m aware I’m not privy to all information, but several posters that have been around the program for awhile said they don’t think Danny wanted to do that and shot the idea down. If so, I think that’s very disappointing. The NCAA has no power and the first time someone sues them in this new clearinghouse era, they’ll cave.

 

[cncchris33]

Just as many folks, if not more, have said the opposite…Hubbs, Cain, Price, Lewis, McKee, Callahan, Shump, Rucker. Roger’s said today while acknowledging what you said above that he thought at the end of the day it was about the Giants more than Tennessee. I guess it’s who do you want to believe, because you’ve got people saying both things…for me if Tony and DW were that bad off then Tony would’ve taken the A&M job and significant raise that were coming with it the last 2 years, not taken a pay cut and worse budgeted roster than UT to go to the Giants, and Rogers acknowledged as much.

Well you may not care about the dollar metric but if you like winning programs you might wanna start, I hate to break it to you but the programs that are winning aren’t doing so on pennies & nickels, they’re typically the schools making the most money. Vitello and Barnes aren’t his hires, but I’m not talking just the major 3 sports, look across the entirety of the AD, they’re winning in everything and he’s hired a lot more than just 2 coaches in that 5 year span.

Would you admit that it's fair to say that everyone of those people have a livelihood that is dependent on access to the athletic department?

Chris Burke, someone who has said he wanted the job 9 years ago and would take the phone call from Danny White if Elander and the current staff weren't interested, is pretty vocal and insistent that this was mismanaged and based (at least in some part) in a soured relationship. That seems like an odd version of events to spin if it weren't true and you have any hope of being a candidate for the job.

I guess I just put more stock in the opinions of people who have nothing to lose and don't stand to have their career and livelihood affected by which version of the relationship they report on. The truth may lie somewhere in the middle.

 

[Mullins2010]

 

[bleedingTNorange]

This debate has been discussed extensively in the baseball forum, so not sure how much to actually re-hash here.

This debate mostly boils down to preferences. I think the baseball program, due to its success, at the very least earned the right to be funded through RevShare at the same rate as the Lady Vols, or even had their percentages swapped since a basketball roster is significantly smaller than a baseball roster, which impacts the average revenue per person on each roster. I know there is a vocal contingent of Lady Vols fans that would disagree with that and say the Lady Vols deserve more, so again, preference.

But, I don’t know if the choice had to be that binary, which is why I think the conversation is more nuanced than just “Which team do we pull money from?” One of the things discussed at length in the baseball forum was that other baseball programs are looking to circumvent the RevShare challenge by operating outside the bounds of the new NIL clearinghouse to find other ways to make up funding players because they don’t anticipate the legal standing of approving NIL deals will hold up. All we have is rumor, so I’m aware I’m not privy to all information, but several posters that have been around the program for awhile said they don’t think Danny wanted to do that and shot the idea down. If so, I think that’s very disappointing. The NCAA has no power and the first time someone sues them in this new clearinghouse era, they’ll cave.

I don’t venture outside this forum, so haven’t read any of that, my thoughts…

On the first part: they’re at a 1% difference, which is $200k overall, we won’t ever know but I would bet a healthy amount that even if DW agreed to swap those numbers it wouldn’t matter at all. As you mention the LV brand is big, I would guess bigger than the baseball fan base, we saw when Hart tried to make that move the revolt he was met with, there’s some title 9 stuff if there too, I’m not sure if DW could’ve really gotten away with swapping those, but let’s say he could…That’s a very small amount that, which will lead to the next part, easily can be made up for via NIL.

On that part…I don’t know how anyone thinks that’s remotely true when we’re recruiting at the level hoops is and the level basketball is, or at the level baseball just was. We’re living well outside the allowed $600 or whatever the arbitrary limit was they assigned to NIL deals, and have been the entire time.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Would you admit that it's fair to say that everyone of those people have a livelihood that is dependent on access to the athletic department?

Chris Burke, someone who has said he wanted the job 9 years ago and would take the phone call from Danny White if Elander and the current staff weren't interested, is pretty vocal and insistent that this was mismanaged and based (at least in some part) in a soured relationship. That seems like an odd version of events to spin if it weren't true and you have any hope of being a candidate for the job.

I guess I just put more stock in the opinions of people who have nothing to lose and don't stand to have their career and livelihood affected by which version of the relationship they report on. The truth may lie somewhere in the middle.

I get that, and agree the truth which we’ll likely never know is somewhere in the middle. I’ve admitted multiple times that I don’t think they were bff’s, but I also don’t think it’s nearly as bad as many want to paint it or suggest that it’s all DWs fault or that he likely could’ve prevented this from happening. As we said we likely don’t know exactly the truth, but I look at these facts..

Tony was given a new stadium and practice facility and pretty much allowed to design it at his own wants and needs with the blessing of his AD. That same AD continued to up his resources and salary to keep him Top 3 in the sport each of the last few years. Tony passed on multiple college jobs the last few years, he passed on A&M twice per Rogers each of the last 2 years alone, and what would’ve been a salary raise over what he was making at Tennessee. He took what is an overall pay cut given COLA by a pretty significant amount to coach a major league team that ranks 3rd best in its own division in payroll. So if having the money to field the best roster was such a major obstacle he couldn’t overcome in college it’s quite interesting he’s signing up for an even tougher task at the next level.

The above facts suggest to me that he was taking this job regardless of what his relationship was with DW, or what the resources he was given at Tennessee were.

 

[cncchris33]

I get that, and agree the truth which we’ll likely never know is somewhere in the middle. I’ve admitted multiple times that I don’t think they were bff’s, but I also don’t think it’s nearly as bad as many want to paint it or suggest that it’s all DWs fault or that he likely could’ve prevented this from happening. As we said we likely don’t know exactly the truth, but I look at these facts..

Tony was given a new stadium and practice facility and pretty much allowed to design it at his own wants and needs with the blessing of his AD. That same AD continued to up his resources and salary to keep him Top 3 in the sport each of the last few years. Tony passed on multiple college jobs the last few years, he passed on A&M twice per Rogers each of the last 2 years alone, and what would’ve been a salary raise over what he was making at Tennessee. He took what is an overall pay cut given COLA by a pretty significant amount to coach a major league team that ranks 3rd best in its own division in payroll. So if having the money to field the best roster was such a major obstacle he couldn’t overcome in college it’s quite interesting he’s signing up for an even tougher task at the next level.

The above facts suggest to me that he was taking this job regardless of what his relationship was with DW, or what the resources he was given at Tennessee were.

To the bolded, I don't disagree and you'll not find me arguing otherwise, but I think a poor working relationship with his boss at Tennessee made the decision easier to make. And it still took him 5 days to decide on it.

 

[Col_Cathcart]

I know a lot of folks in Tennessee have gotten pretty into baseball over the last couple years, but I can’t bring myself to care even a little bit about it. I’d be more than happy for the baseball team to completely crater and free up additional NIL and coaching salary for sports I actually watch.

They could play the CWS in my backyard and I wouldn’t raise the blinds.