Official Gramps' Memorial Eternal OT Thread

#90,628
#90,628
volfanhill said:
There was nothing wrong with the play call. Problem was Joey threw that ball inside. You can't do that. That ball needs to be on the outside where it's either a WR catch or an overthrow
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Everyones problem with the playcall from what I have heard from Brooks and all the VQ guys are these:

1. The play had a playaction fake to the RB with less than 10secs, no timeouts, and 7 defenders stacked up in the middle on defense. Nobody believed we were running on that play because an incomplete pass gives you another snap after to then run OR pass. The playfake gave guys time to be on Joey and time to jump the route.

2. We lined up in a "jumbo" formation then Bama called a TO. We went right back out there in Jumbo with Brazzell (our best WR who is 6ft5in tall) and Matthews on the bench. So we rolled backout there still in Jumbo (could have changed after Bama had seen the formation) and Kiselman was the ONLY option to throw the ball to on that side of the field on a play when the defense ane everyone else knew we were 100% gonna throw the ball. When Joey looked right there was nowhere else the ball could go. Thats why it was picked as much as it being a bad throw by Joey which it was. Knowing we had to throw the ball, IF we were gonna stay in Jumbo, they should have had more than Kitselman to throw the ball to. At least have a RB headed that way too or Jack Van D. On a fade route...something.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and its easy to pick stuff apart afterwards. Their criticisms have merit though IMO. Especially since the defense had already seen Jumbo then we had 60secs TO to change the play.
 
#90,629
#90,629
volfanhill said:
If that throw is back shoulder sideline only one person can catch it
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Not really possible there. Bama had both options covered underneath and over the top. Even if he put a little air under it, and got it high, Brown would have been there to make the tackle likely in bounds.

Bama clearly knew the play....
 
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#90,630
#90,630
marcusluvsvols said:
Everyones problem with the playcall from what I have heard from Brooks and all the VQ guys are these:

1. The play had a playaction fake to the RB with less than 10secs, no timeouts, and 7 defenders stacked up in the middle on defense. Nobody believed we were running on that play because an incomplete pass gives you another snap after to then run OR pass. The playfake gave guys time to be on Joey and time to jump the route.

2. We lined up in a "jumbo" formation then Bama called a TO. We went right back out there in Jumbo with Brazzell (our best WR who is 6ft5in tall) and Matthews on the bench. So we rolled backout there still in Jumbo (could have changed after Bama had seen the formation) and Kiselman was the ONLY option to throw the ball to on that side of the field on a play when the defense ane everyone else knew we were 100% gonna throw the ball. When Joey looked right there was nowhere else the ball could go. Thats why it was picked as much as it being a bad throw by Joey which it was. Knowing we had to throw the ball, IF we were gonna stay in Jumbo, they should have had more than Kitselman to throw the ball to. At least have a RB headed that way too or Jack Van D. On a fade route...something.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and its easy to pick stuff apart afterwards. Their criticisms have merit though IMO. Especially since the defense had already seen Jumbo then we had 60secs TO to change the play.
Click to expand...
Well to be fair Van D was running a route. It was a high low read. But he was also covered. Terrible and predictable play call, bama knew what was coming and read it like a dr suess book. Joey had a guy to the front right of him and another guy directly in front of of him. Threw off the back foot and had to alter his motion just to get it off

Terrible call, bad pass (even with a perfect pass it’s not getting completed) should have been thrown into the stands
 
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#90,631
#90,631
McDad said:
I don't understand how fans conclude the best players or mix of players are not being used. Why would any competent coach intentionally sabotage the team and add an additional hurdle?
I think there is far more going on with scheme, breathers, personnel packages, and future development than we realize.
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For sure, it would never be intentional but you can unintentionally do it.

We had 5 drives in the first half, 4 different combinations of linemen. Drive 3 (75 yard TD drive) and drive 5 (74 yard drive that resulted in pick six) both had zero sacks allowed, both drives were the same lineup.
The other 3 drives? A total of 21 yards and 3 sacks allowed. I bet you can guess which lineup we went with in the 2nd half
 
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#90,633
#90,633
volfanhill said:
There was nothing wrong with the play call. Problem was Joey threw that ball inside. You can't do that. That ball needs to be on the outside where it's either a WR catch or an overthrow
Click to expand...
He also threw it too early …..which is not a problem we are used to.

Edit: also it was the second option in the read. The first was grabbed and basically tackled going into the end zone (no flag) as he pulled off the first read he failed to get his shoulders squared to the outside and,as you said, threw the ball low and too the inside. Its was not a great defensive play. The ball was actually behind the receiver
 
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#90,637
#90,637
marcusluvsvols said:
Everyones problem with the playcall from what I have heard from Brooks and all the VQ guys are these:

1. The play had a playaction fake to the RB with less than 10secs, no timeouts, and 7 defenders stacked up in the middle on defense. Nobody believed we were running on that play because an incomplete pass gives you another snap after to then run OR pass. The playfake gave guys time to be on Joey and time to jump the route.

2. We lined up in a "jumbo" formation then Bama called a TO. We went right back out there in Jumbo with Brazzell (our best WR who is 6ft5in tall) and Matthews on the bench. So we rolled backout there still in Jumbo (could have changed after Bama had seen the formation) and Kiselman was the ONLY option to throw the ball to on that side of the field on a play when the defense ane everyone else knew we were 100% gonna throw the ball. When Joey looked right there was nowhere else the ball could go. Thats why it was picked as much as it being a bad throw by Joey which it was. Knowing we had to throw the ball, IF we were gonna stay in Jumbo, they should have had more than Kitselman to throw the ball to. At least have a RB headed that way too or Jack Van D. On a fade route...something.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and its easy to pick stuff apart afterwards. Their criticisms have merit though IMO. Especially since the defense had already seen Jumbo then we had 60secs TO to change the play.
Click to expand...
for how much wizardry comes out of this offense, there are always a couple plays a game that I can call while sitting on my couch never having played the sport. that was one of them, both me and my friend were diagnosing that play. and like announcers will do we jinxed it by saying Joey can't throw it inside on this one, got to be high and out.

if we can sit there and take the play apart, you know the defense can.
 
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#90,639
#90,639
Smokey123 said:
For sure, it would never be intentional but you can unintentionally do it.

We had 5 drives in the first half, 4 different combinations of linemen. Drive 3 (75 yard TD drive) and drive 5 (74 yard drive that resulted in pick six) both had zero sacks allowed, both drives were the same lineup.
The other 3 drives? A total of 21 yards and 3 sacks allowed. I bet you can guess which lineup we went with in the 2nd half
Click to expand...
who were the 5? my friend and I got pissed and stopped watching the game, went outside and drank beer before getting into the Angel's Envy. everytime we would check on the game something bad would happen.
 
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#90,640
#90,640
marcusluvsvols said:
Everyones problem with the playcall from what I have heard from Brooks and all the VQ guys are these:

1. The play had a playaction fake to the RB with less than 10secs, no timeouts, and 7 defenders stacked up in the middle on defense. Nobody believed we were running on that play because an incomplete pass gives you another snap after to then run OR pass. The playfake gave guys time to be on Joey and time to jump the route.

2. We lined up in a "jumbo" formation then Bama called a TO. We went right back out there in Jumbo with Brazzell (our best WR who is 6ft5in tall) and Matthews on the bench. So we rolled backout there still in Jumbo (could have changed after Bama had seen the formation) and Kiselman was the ONLY option to throw the ball to on that side of the field on a play when the defense ane everyone else knew we were 100% gonna throw the ball. When Joey looked right there was nowhere else the ball could go. Thats why it was picked as much as it being a bad throw by Joey which it was. Knowing we had to throw the ball, IF we were gonna stay in Jumbo, they should have had more than Kitselman to throw the ball to. At least have a RB headed that way too or Jack Van D. On a fade route...something.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and its easy to pick stuff apart afterwards. Their criticisms have merit though IMO. Especially since the defense had already seen Jumbo then we had 60secs TO to change the play.
Click to expand...
There is an old fable about a man and child going into town with their donkey. No matter the way the man and boy use the donkey (one rides, then the other, both ride, neither ride) the 4 people they pass by complain about it.
Some in our fan base are exactly the same. They foam at the mouth with CJH's conservative playcalling. And then when he is reasonably aggressive, we get some of those fans and others joining in the chorus of bad play calling.
Jumbo gives us the pretense of running. Perhaps Bama gambled that it was a pass no matter our formation. But that alignment should hold the LBs and safeties giving our WRs one on one. That's what we got on the outside. Joey just made a bad play. It happens. We beat Bama last year partly because Milton made bad plays.

Just listened to CJH's postgame interview about this play. Decision was to have two shots instead of one. It was a two read play and if the play isn't there, supposed to throw the ball away. I like how he answered because he made an effort to say that it wasn't only on Joey but everyone, including himself, has a responsibility to be better.
 
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#90,641
#90,641
LouderVol said:
who were the 5? my friend and I got pissed and stopped watching the game, went outside and drank beer before getting into the Angel's Envy. everytime we would check on the game something bad would happen.
Click to expand...
Marcus posted this yesterday. It's a good summation.
marcusluvsvols said:
I agree 100% .

We seem to have a problem on our hands now with the Oline. They wont bench Sham for some reason despite him being the weak link all year and lowest grade on PFF nearly every week this season. So instead of playing the same 5 guys all game like we have all year until recently, Perry and Sanders are splitting time at Tackle, Perry is spending some time at Guard, and they keep changing the lineup all game....AT Bama. At one point last night we sent in 3 new Olinemen in the middle of a drive. You can't do that in the SEC. We had only given up 2 sacks I believe in the 1st 6 games. We gave up at least 4 sacks last night. Its like Coach Elarbee doesnt have the heart to bench Sham and get our best 5 on the field all the time with Perry in Shams place at Guard and Sanders at Tackle. You have to be able to do whats best for the team as a coach...even if it causes tears or means that Sham transfers. As you mentioned, you HAVE to keep continuity on an Oline. Those guys work together on double team blocks all the time at the point of attack. They need to be able to correctly anticipate what the guy next to them is gonna do on any play, to know where others will be. You can't have that with changing lineups and moving people around like Moe who had to move back and forth from LG to RGuard depending on who else was in the game. Our Oline without Sanders was one of the best in the SEC this year. They need to pick their best 5 and stick with it. No excuse for that BS on the road AT bama.
Click to expand...
 
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#90,644
#90,644
McDad said:
If Heup makes a change at DC, the perfect scenario would be for Venables to be fired from OU and hired as DC for UT.
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I don't think he needs to make a change at DC, maybe secondary and linebackers but Banks has proven he can do the job.

Now that the NCAA has eliminated the limits on on-field coaching staff, The Hype needs to be bringing in some help. Keep the guys that can recruit but bring in some specialists for different position groups.
 
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#90,645
#90,645
hog88 said:
I don't think he needs to make a change at DC, maybe secondary and linebackers but Banks has proven he can do the job.

Now that the NCAA has eliminated the limits on on-field coaching staff, The Hype needs to be bringing in some help. Keep the guys that can recruit but bring in some specialists for different position groups.
Click to expand...
Would you like to see some former UT superstars fill those specialists spots?
 
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#90,648
#90,648
McDad said:
There is an old fable about a man and child going into town with their donkey. No matter the way the man and boy use the donkey (one rides, then the other, both ride, neither ride) the 4 people they pass by complain about it.
Some in our fan base are exactly the same. They foam at the mouth with CJH's conservative playcalling. And then when he is reasonably aggressive, we get some of those fans and others joining in the chorus of bad play calling.
Jumbo gives us the pretense of running. Perhaps Bama gambled that it was a pass no matter our formation. But that alignment should hold the LBs and safeties giving our WRs one on one. That's what we got on the outside. Joey just made a bad play. It happens. We beat Bama last year partly because Milton made bad plays.

Just listened to CJH's postgame interview about this play. Decision was to have two shots instead of one. It was a two read play and if the play isn't there, supposed to throw the ball away. I like how he answered because he made an effort to say that it wasn't only on Joey but everyone, including himself, has a responsibility to be better.
Click to expand...

Good post and I agree with all of this. I will never fault Hype for going for the TD right there trying to make it 16-14 OR for going for it on 4th down being aggressive. Honestly there was 1 already this season when we had it on the opposing 42 or 44yd line and i wish he had gone for it. You have to play for TDs in SEC games especially against the best teams. FGs werent gonna win at Bama so the people complaining that we didnt just kick a FG before half without trying to throw a TD are being too conservative IMO.

CJH always says the right thing from what little he says. Joey has been an absolute superhero compared to what anyone could have reasonably expected from him getting here in May. We are lucky to have him which is on CJH and staff for identifying his talent. We are far luckier to have CJH who walked into a dumpster fire to win 30 games the last 3 years...years 2,3, and 4. We likely go 9-3 with a shot to win a 10th in a bowlgame this year. Complaining about where our program is right now is asinine IMO...but people love to complain. I am thankful that UT arhletics are the best in the SEC. Thankful our football team is still getting deeper and better every year, and thankful for you guys in the PF who bring lots of cool stuff to learn and make me laugh. Go VOLS
 
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