Josh Heupel Has Elevated Tennessee — But Can He Evolve?

#76
#76
RockyTop603 said:
I’m just gonna say it — Josh Heupel is turning into Tennessee’s version of James Franklin. Yeah, he wins games, puts up points, and has us looking way better than we were a few years ago… but he still can’t win the big ones. Every time we get a shot to take that next step, we fall flat.

At some point, being “better than before” isn’t enough. We need a coach who can close the deal when it matters most.
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-James Franklin was 4-21 against top 10 opponents (16%)
-Josh Heupel is 3-7 against top 10 teams (30%)
Just for a quick reference:
-Steve Sarkesian is 2-8 (20%)

Yeah it's not amazing, but you gotta take into account the fact that most of those losses are against two of the greatest college coaches of all time and two of the most talented rosters of all time. Beating bama on the road after replacing 9 starters on offense and losing multiple guys on defense to the draft as well as our 2 best corners is a TALL task to expect. Am I going crazy or was this not always a rebuilding year?
 
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#77
#77
Evol said:
We didn’t have a QB that could run our system correctly in 2023. Same as last year. You can see the difference in the offense this year. It looks more like 2022
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no its not. It looks slightly improved from last year but its still not nearly as good as 2022. It looked good against inferior opponents and when we gave UGA our fastball at home but that's it. It struggled to score against MSU (Defense accounted for 14 points) and it stalled out more than its fair share of time against swiss cheese arky defense and then Joey got sacked 4 times and threw multiple picks against ALA. The offense peaked in 2022 and then Golesh left.
 
#78
#78
EastTNVol6240 said:
Good coach but not a great coach. You’ll be flamed for saying it. He’s our richt. We gotta decide if this university wants to win 8-9 a year, sometimes 10, or if we want the next level. I suspect we will settle.
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We haven't won less than 9 games since 2021. Here we go again with people saying "8 wins" as if that happens under Heupel. We literally average 10 wins a year for 3 seasons. Relax
 
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#79
#79
SGMVols said:
We don’t have a young hotshot alum lined up to step into the job and win immediately like Georgia had.
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Georgia never knew Kirby would win immediately. There is 0 guarantees when selecting a new head coach. Sure there are some criteria you want to check, but it still doesn’t necessarily translate to winning. Everyone thought the saban tree was a guarantee, and that proved wrong in instances. We know that all to well.

I’m not saying fire Heupel. 8-10 a year is much better than 6-7. It’s just time we be realistic about his ceiling.
 
#80
#80
Evol said:
I agree. But like you said this is a problem the previous 5 coaches at Tennessee had as well. It’s a Tennessee problem for some reason. At least Heupel is 2-2. Kiffin, Dooley, Butch and Pruitt went 1-11
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This the key, this isn't just a Heupel problem, it is a program-wide problem. First half of 2022 Tennessee might be the only time I think we truly had the right mentality, we need to play angry, out for revenge. Not playing to "not lose" or "to make playoff". We need to play each game with a chip on our shoulder. My message Friday and Saturday morning would have been about how we hadn't won in Alabama since 2003 and all the ugly losses to them. Play angry like George McFly going after Biff or Ralphie from the Christmas story unloading on that bully.

We haven't earned anything yet and we have been bullied and beat down for 25+ years. Get angry as a program for once. Don't talk about losses or what we need to be good, just go out and beat the crap out of people and see where the scoreboard is at once the clock hits 0.
 
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#82
#82
JMSqb11 said:
Heupel’s arguably best win on the road is LSU 2022 when you look in totality of the teams in your list that season.

Heupel’s failure to consistently win on the road is what is holding back his status as a top coach in the country. Until he rips the bandaid off and makes staff changes, he will continue to have awful performances on the road in big games.
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Completely agree with you. Performance on the road is his biggest issue. And not just Tuscaloosa and Athens. Those are excusable to an extent. (Alabama has lost 3 home games over the last 10 years. Georgia lost one over the last 6 years… to Alabama). Can’t have the awful performances against teams that aren’t even ranked on the road.
 
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#83
#83
Heupel's Offseason Beard said:
We haven't won less than 9 games since 2021. Here we go again with people saying "8 wins" as if that happens under Heupel. We literally average 10 wins a year for 3 seasons. Relax
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9-4 beacuse of the bowl game. They lost to a 7 loss Florida team and then got ran out of CoMo on top of being embarassed by UGA and ALA. Elite Coaches don't lose to 5-7 teams.
 
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#84
#84
EastTNVol6240 said:
Georgia never knew Kirby would win immediately. There is 0 guarantees when selecting a new head coach. Sure there are some criteria you want to check, but it still doesn’t necessarily translate to winning. Everyone thought the saban tree was a guarantee, and that proved wrong in instances. We know that all to well.

I’m not saying fire Heupel. 8-10 a year is much better than 6-7. It’s just time we be realistic about his ceiling.
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You can win 10 games and win championships now. Ohio State did that last year.
 
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#85
#85
volbound1700 said:
This the key, this isn't just a Heupel problem, it is a program-wide problem. First half of 2022 Tennessee might be the only time I think we truly had the right mentality, we need to play angry, out for revenge. Not playing to "not lose" or "to make playoff". We need to play each game with a chip on our shoulder. My message Friday and Saturday morning would have been about how we hadn't won in Alabama since 2003 and all the ugly losses to them. Play angry like George McFly going after Biff or Ralphie from the Christmas story unloading on that bully.

We haven't earned anything yet and we have been bullied and beat down for 25+ years. Get angry as a program for once. Don't talk about losses or what we need to be good, just go out and beat the crap out of people and see where the scoreboard is at once the clock hits 0.
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That's what made the Baseball team so likable. They weren't afraid to be College Baseballs Villains. Huepel is too respectable. Lacks the Killer instinct. That seems to have moved to Tampa.
 
#86
#86
SGMVols said:
You can win 10 games and win championships now. Ohio State did that last year.
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You can. But it’s much deeper than that. You can do that with an inspired, disciplined team that’s capable of winning a game it shouldn’t here and there. Heupel teams are proving to be quite the opposite. We aren’t disciplined, aren’t prepared, struggle to win the ones we should, and often try to lose the ones we shouldn’t.
 
#87
#87
Evol said:
Completely agree with you. Performance on the road is his biggest issue. And not just Tuscaloosa and Athens. Those are excusable to an extent. (Alabama has lost 3 home games over the last 10 years. Georgia lost one over the last 6 years… to Alabama). Can’t have the awful performances against teams that aren’t even ranked on the road.
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Well half of CFB fans think Lane Kiffin invented football and he has a grand total of one ranked road win in 6 years at Ole Miss.

And it was Tulane.

He’s never beaten a ranked P4 team on the road since he’s been in Oxford.
 
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#88
#88
EastTNVol6240 said:
Fact remains the same. He’s not next level.
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That's not what a fact is. That's an opinion. If you want to talk opinions, I think it's pretty next level to take a 3 win team who loses 38 of the best players to the portal and turns them into an 11 win team in only 2 years. All while under ncaa probation. You getting your expectations blown out of proportion during a rebuilding year is your own fault. Now if you want to argue whether or not this is rebuilding year, we can talk.
 
#90
#90
james_govols said:
Heupel has to work on clock management or find someone that can.

Heupel has to figure out how to start working the refs more.

Heupel has to figure out how to play in hostile road environments.

The team plays undisciplined. The coaching is subpar.

I'll give the team credit for fighting until the end but this loss is on Heupel. That playcsll at the end of the half was one of the worst I've ever seen.
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The play call was an odd choice, but the interception is on Joey. He threw a bad pass! He should've led Kitselman, which he wouldve scored a TD or, more likely, wouldve dropped the pass and we wouldve had time to kick a field goal. But instead he threw it to the inside and the Bama defender made an easy play.
 
#91
#91
CNCVol88 said:
That's what made the Baseball team so likable. They weren't afraid to be College Baseballs Villains. Huepel is too respectable. Lacks the Killer instinct. That seems to have moved to Tampa.
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Not villains, basically be Ralphie. We are the bullied party seeking revenge. Smartt is like that with Georgia. I think he evokes and remembers when Florida/Spurrier and Tennessee/Fulmer beat up on Georgia.
 
#92
#92
CNCVol88 said:
9-4 beacuse of the bowl game. They lost to a 7 loss Florida team and then got ran out of CoMo on top of being embarassed by UGA and ALA. Elite Coaches don't lose to 5-7 teams.
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-Nick Saban lost to 5-7 Louisiana- Monroe

-Jim Harbaugh lost to Michigan state who finished 5-7

-Kyle Whittingham lost to San Diego St who finished 5-7 (after Utah had an undefeated season)

-Dabo Swinney lost to a Maryland team who finished 2-10
 
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#93
#93
Rickyvol77 said:
Which coach doesn't lose or squeak by teams they shouldn't? I'd like to see that list
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The ones that win championships.
And they may have occasional squeak by wins , but they do win .
And their is a difference between occasional, and getting a reputation for it because you do several times a year every year.

Heupel has a reputation of his teams not playing well on the road.
It’s not unfair, but based on results over 5 years.
 
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#94
#94
VolCalls said:
The big games he has won have all come at home with the exception of the 2023 Orange Bowl, which featured several opt-outs on both teams. Until he goes toe-to-toe for 60 minutes with a heavyweight on the road, I think he's hit his ceiling. We will lose 2-3 away games every season and will never compete in an SEC Championship Game while he's here.

And by "heavyweight" I mean a legitimate top 10 team that warrants a prime time ABC game, not a #25 LSU team from 2022 where we were the favorite and the game kicked off at noon.
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See how "big game" is nuanced to fit a preconceived narrative?

I understand ascribing a ceiling until he "breaks through" that ceiling. I don't think it is a novel approach to assessment.
 
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#97
#97
EastTNVol6240 said:
That’s the only retort we ever get from the crowd that refuses to admit Heups ceiling. There are no guarantees in coaching searches. Absolutely 0. You either make a move for better and see if it works or you don’t.
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I just assumed you and your crew had all the answers because you guys always have the crystal ball that sees so clearly at showing Heupel’s ceiling.

So if I’m interpreting this correctly, you’re ready to move on from the guy that has split the last 4 w/ Bama and UF, went to the CFP last year, and has brought our program from the joke that it was just prior to the 2021 season to a program that has a top 8 win % since 2021 for an unknown quantity? GMAFB
 
#98
#98
RDU VOL#14 said:
I just assumed you and your crew had all the answers because you guys always have the crystal ball that sees so clearly at showing Heupel’s ceiling.

So if I’m interpreting this correctly, you’re ready to move on from the guy that has split the last 4 w/ Bama and UF, went to the CFP last year, and has brought our program from the joke that it was just prior to the 2021 season to a program that has a top 8 win % since 2021 for an unknown quantity? GMAFB
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I didn’t say fire the guy. I just see him for what he is. Good. Not next level. You should do the same.
 
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#99
#99
RockyTop603 said:
I’m just gonna say it — Josh Heupel is turning into Tennessee’s version of James Franklin. Yeah, he wins games, puts up points, and has us looking way better than we were a few years ago… but he still can’t win the big ones. Every time we get a shot to take that next step, we fall flat.

At some point, being “better than before” isn’t enough. We need a coach who can close the deal when it matters most.
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While he has won big games at Tennessee, your overall point about evolving is salient. And I think it applies to every coach at some point. It was a question about Dabo at the beginning of his tenure. Nick Saban wasn’t Nick Saban when he was hired by Michigan State or even LSU. Both of those guys evolved. The best example I can think of is Jim Harbaugh. He had to evolve as Michigan’s coach from a guy that won a lot of games, but never the big one to a coach who could win at all. And did. And that’s a guy who had been to the Super Bowl as an NFL coach. James Franklin, on the other hand, never got over that hump.

I don’t think Josh Heupel is a finished product. I could be wrong. And this is a valid question. Time will tell.
 
#100
#100
VolCalls said:
The big games he has won have all come at home with the exception of the 2023 Orange Bowl, which featured several opt-outs on both teams. Until he goes toe-to-toe for 60 minutes with a heavyweight on the road, I think he's hit his ceiling. We will lose 2-3 away games every season and will never compete in an SEC Championship Game while he's here.

And by "heavyweight" I mean a legitimate top 10 team that warrants a prime time ABC game, not a #25 LSU team from 2022 where we were the favorite and the game kicked off at noon.
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LSU won the SEC West in 2022.
 
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