Too much ice

[Franklin Pierce]

Chicago Alderman: ICE Is ‘Worst Gang in Chicago’​

On Thursday’s broadcast of MSNBC’s “The Last Word,” Chicago Alderman Timmy Knudsen discussed protests in the Chicago area scheduled for the weekend and stated that “the worst gang in Chicago is called ICE, and it’s funded by the federal government.”

Chicago Alderman: ICE Is 'Worst Gang in Chicago'

On Thursday's broadcast of MSNBC's "The Last Word," Chicago Alderman Timmy Knudsen discussed protests in the Chicago area scheduled for the weekend and | Clips

www.breitbart.com

 

[Tin Man]

Following the laws in place and using the courts, the Obama administration (yes, the Obama administration) deported more aliens illegally in the US than any administration that has followed. He didn’t have the massive increase in ICE, he didn’t have the bipartisan border bill he asked Congress to produce, he just managed to get it done. It’s an example of effectiveness that no one wants to talk about because Obama was POTUS. Jimminy Cricket, people! Throw out the baby with the bath water?!

 

[Franklin Pierce]

yeah I don't understand what this accomplishes. I'm all for removing hardened criminals but getting people on paperwork violations is dumb.

My wife has a coworker who is worried she's going to have an issue. She's a really good person and yes has some immigration technicalities (I don' tknow all the exact specifics without asking) but has lived worked in US most of her life. Has kids that are in college. This is not the type of person that would be picked up and removed

That's the ticket, just forget about all of that paperwork.

 

[hog88]

Following the laws in place and using the courts, the Obama administration (yes, the Obama administration) deported more aliens illegally in the US than any administration that has followed. He didn’t have the massive increase in ICE, he didn’t have the bipartisan border bill he asked Congress to produce, he just managed to get it done. It’s an example of effectiveness that no one wants to talk about because Obama was POTUS. Jimminy Cricket, people! Throw out the baby with the bath water?!

Nice try but those numbers like most during his administration were fudged and fabricated.

Obama deportation numbers a 'trick'

 

[theFallGuy]

That's the ticket, just forget about all of that paperwork.

?? no idea what you are referencing

 

[Franklin Pierce]

?? no idea what you are referencing

yeah I don't understand what this accomplishes. I'm all for removing hardened criminals but getting people on paperwork violations is dumb.

 

[theFallGuy]

yeah I don't understand what this accomplishes. I'm all for removing hardened criminals but getting people on paperwork violations is dumb.

point is every case is unique. You don't always throw the baby out with the bathwater but typically this is what you get when government tries to "fix something"

 

[NashVol11]

Nice try but those numbers like most during his administration were fudged and fabricated.

Obama deportation numbers a 'trick'

This is an opinion piece by a Republican politician, not much of a source

 

[Franklin Pierce]

First Maine, now Illinois: a suburban Chicago officer’s arrest by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has exposed another stunning breach in the nation’s vetting system, marking at least the second time in three months that an armed lawman turned out to be in the U.S. illegally.

On July 25, according to ICE, Jon Luke Evans, of Jamaica, was serving as a reserve officer with Old Orchard Beach, Maine Police Department when he was arrested after he unlawfully attempted to purchase a gun. Old Orchard Beach, according to the Department of Homeland Security, is considered a sanctuary jurisdiction, due to their refusal to comply with the administration's immigration enforcement efforts.

The back-to-back arrests of Evans and Bojovic, occurring within just three months and both in sanctuary jurisdictions, highlight the Trump administration’s ongoing crackdown aimed at removing illegal aliens from the streets.


ICE officials say Jamaican national Jon Luke Evans attempted to illegally purchase a gun for his employment as a local police officer. (Old Orchard Beach Police Department Facebook)


Radule Bojovic, an illegal immigrant from Montenegro, was working as a sworn police officer with the Hanover Park Police Department before he was arrested, authorities said Thursday. (Hanover Police Department Faceook)

Both police departments involved have defended their hiring practices and stopped short of accepting responsibility for the vetting failures that allowed the two men to serve as officers.

Two illegal immigrant police officers busted in just 3 months have one thing in common

Jon Luke Evans and Radule Bojovic, serving as police officers in Maine and Illinois, were arrested by ICE for being in the U.S. illegally despite passing background checks.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Orange_Crush]

point is every case is unique.

I completely understand and empathize with your perspective, but don't understand the logic.

Just because someone puts themselves in a bad position through their own personal choices does not mean that we should not enforce those laws. Just because they've been able to break the laws for years without consequence, we should refuse to enforce those laws? Just because the enforcement of laws would bring consequences to the person and their family, means we should not enforce the laws?

If I refused to pay my taxes for a couple of decades, we should do away with tax law enforcement? They shouldn't enforce tax law against me because I have a kid in college?

Every citizen here that breaks the law should expect it to have adverse ramifications on them and their family, but we should forego those expectations for non-citizens? As a citizen, if I were tried for tax evasion, I should be able to plead: "Your honor, I have a kid in college; it would break up our family"? Of course it would.

Understand that my view on this is informed by quite a bit of world traveling and a desire to gain residency overseas. As a matter of fact, I'm in the process of applying for residency right now. It's completely alien to me that one would expect to illegally enter a country, live illegally and expect them to forego their immigration laws for me out of some misplaced idea that it would be mean/dumb to do so.

Immigration laws exist for a reason. It would be unjust and unfair to enforce it inconsistently--especially to those going through the time, trouble, and money to do it right.

You don't always throw the baby out with the bathwater but typically this is what you get when government tries to "fix something"

Do we want to live in a just society where application of the law is consistent? If there is a valid, legal reason not to enforce immigration law in a case, then by all means, don't enforce. If we don't like immigration law, change it. But to claim it's mean or dumb to enforce the law consistently is a strange take IMO.

 

[hog88]

This is an opinion piece by a Republican politician, not much of a source

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deportations-deporter-chief-or-not

U.S. immigrant deportations declined in 2014, but remain near record high

 

[Orange_Crush]

Had a patient today who is an FBI agent, says that now they’re making them focus on immigration cases. He hates it.

He should probably direct his annoyance at the administration that opened the borders and created the need for so much immigration work to be done.

 

[EasternVol]

'Gestapo' is a pretty big and loaded word that should not be used carelessly.

I'm genuinely curious what, specifically 'they' are doing that is wrong or illegal. I've recently heard a few people chastising groups here for not condemning the 'things' ICE is doing, but they don't actually point to the specifics that should be condemned. Would you be willing to post examples, and include why said examples should be attributed to 'ICE' and not just some over-zealous agents?

As a beggar being a chooser, I'll apologize, but I'd like actual details and not vague, unsupported headline accusations--a la huff.

Much appreciated if you take the time and trouble of doing so. No worries if not.

It is a pretty loaded word, and it fits.
What's wrong? Concealing their faces, refusing to identify themselves, refusing to show warrants, needless and excessive violence, generally acting like a bunch of punks, persecution of legal speech, and holding detainees in miserable conditions far from home and family, just off the top of my head.
Congress needs to come up with just and humane ways to address those who are here illegally and set new quotas for future immigration. The President needs to push them to do so. I see no hope of either Congress or Trump doing what they should.

 

[theFallGuy]

I completely understand and empathize with your perspective, but don't understand the logic.

Just because someone puts themselves in a bad position through their own personal choices does not mean that we should not enforce those laws. Just because they've been able to break the laws for years without consequence, we should refuse to enforce those laws? Just because the enforcement of laws would bring consequences to the person and their family, means we should not enforce the laws?

If I refused to pay my taxes for a couple of decades, we should do away with tax law enforcement? They shouldn't enforce tax law against me because I have a kid in college?

Every citizen here that breaks the law should expect it to have adverse ramifications on them and their family, but we should forego those expectations for non-citizens? As a citizen, if I were tried for tax evasion, I should be able to plead: "Your honor, I have a kid in college; it would break up our family"? Of course it would.

Understand that my view on this is informed by quite a bit of world traveling and a desire to gain residency overseas. As a matter of fact, I'm in the process of applying for residency right now. It's completely alien to me that one would expect to illegally enter a country, live illegally and expect them to forego their immigration laws for me out of some misplaced idea that it would be mean/dumb to do so.

Immigration laws exist for a reason. It would be unjust and unfair to enforce it inconsistently--especially to those going through the time, trouble, and money to do it right.



Do we want to live in a just society where application of the law is consistent? If there is a valid, legal reason not to enforce immigration law in a case, then by all means, don't enforce. If we don't like immigration law, change it. But to claim it's mean or dumb to enforce the law consistently is a strange take IMO.

This is too long for me to respond too and I'm at happy hour. Lol

 

[Orange_Crush]

This is too long for me to respond too and I'm at happy hour. Lol

Cheers!

 

[Orange_Crush]

It is a pretty loaded word, and it fits.
What's wrong? Concealing their faces, refusing to identify themselves, refusing to show warrants, needless and excessive violence, generally acting like a bunch of punks, persecution of legal speech, and holding detainees in miserable conditions far from home and family, just off the top of my head.
Congress needs to come up with just and humane ways to address those who are here illegally and set new quotas for future immigration. The President needs to push them to do so. I see no hope of either Congress or Trump doing what they should.

I've recently heard a few people chastising groups here for not condemning the 'things' ICE is doing, but they don't actually point to the specifics that should be condemned. Would you be willing to post examples, and include why said examples should be attributed to 'ICE' and not just some over-zealous agents?

As a beggar being a chooser, I'll apologize, but I'd like actual details and not vague, unsupported headline accusations--a la huff.

Much appreciated if you take the time and trouble of doing so. No worries if not.

I have no issue with them covering their faces when they are disrupting cartels that murder cops who disrupt their business, and in a culture where they are being threatened and attempted assassinations. Travel through Mexico and they do the same for the exact same reasons. It does not mean they are the equivalent of the Gestapo.

"Needless" and "excessive" are meaningless words outside of the context of each situation being referenced, which is why I asked for specific examples as opposed to vague talking points, which is all you've given despite the request. They're also important when you are attributing this to "ICE" as opposed to specific examples, which was another part of my request.

"Generally acting like a bunch of punks" fails those requests as well. It's vague and meaningless if we are going to have a legitimate discussion.

"Persecution of legal speech". Again. Vague and meaningless without specific examples that we can judge and then attribute to "ICE" as opposed to bad actors.

Same with detaining conditions.

I'm not sure that detaining lawbreakers away from home and family is "gestapo" activity. If I break the law, I can expect the same.

Despite the requests that would further discussion, you've just repeated vague talking points that can't be discussed or judged. It's no better than saying "All republicans are Nazis" or "All liberals are communists". It's useless and antithetical to profitable discussion. But that's pretty much all the PF is, and it's why I kick myself again for wasting my time here yet again.

Good evening. Like I said, no worries if you don't want to take the time or trouble to respond as requested. I hope you and yours are well.

 

[Vol423]

ICE douchebag thinks he's above the law even when off duty. Meanwhile, he's bulldogging 15 yo girls for paperwork violations and they treat this guy with kid gloves.

I see that the looney left has distributed its new idiotic talking point. "They're just paperwork violations."

 

[EasternVol]

I have no issue with them covering their faces when they are disrupting cartels that murder cops who disrupt their business, and in a culture where they are being threatened and attempted assassinations. Travel through Mexico and they do the same for the exact same reasons. It does not mean they are the equivalent of the Gestapo.

We're not discussing actions against cartels though. There's not much chance than any of the ICE targets which are the subject of the discussion will track down their AO and hit their house with an RPG.

"Needless" and "excessive" are meaningless words outside of the context of each situation being referenced, which is why I asked for specific examples as opposed to vague talking points, which is all you've given despite the request. They're also important when you are attributing this to "ICE" as opposed to specific examples, which was another part of my request.

You've seen the same video we all have here, ICE shoves women hard to concrete, ICE gasses and attacks peaceful protesters, Ice hits peaceful protester with LTL projectile (one instance) or have you not?

"Generally acting like a bunch of punks" fails those requests as well. It's vague and meaningless if we are going to have a legitimate discussion.

Here's one of many. Little boys must have felt threatened by the lady.

"Persecution of legal speech". Again. Vague and meaningless without specific examples that we can judge and then attribute to "ICE" as opposed to bad actors.

You're unaware of Rumeysa OztUrk who was detained for writing an op-ed which displeased Li'l Marco's handlers? Of Mahmoud Khalil and Mohsen Madawi? The bad actors are ICE.

Same with detaining conditions.

You've seen the complaints though. Students Document Reports of Abuse at Immigration Detention Center

I'm not sure that detaining lawbreakers away from home and family is "gestapo" activity. If I break the law, I can expect the same.

It's a baby step for the wannabes though, which is what I called them. Moving them so far from home makes it more difficult for them to coordinate their personal affairs including fighting ICE's actions. I very seriously doubt you'd be held a thousand miles from home pending trial.

Despite the requests that would further discussion,you've just repeated vague talking points that can't be discussed or judged. It's no better than saying "All republicans are Nazis" or "All liberals are communists". It's useless and antithetical to profitable discussion. But that's pretty much all the PF is, and it's why I kick myself again for wasting my time here yet again.

One day you'll learn, fishing is more relaxing than the PF. Or maybe you already know.

Good evening. Like I said, no worries if you don't want to take the time or trouble to respond as requested. I hope you and yours are well.

 

[Orange_Crush]

One day you'll learn, fishing is more relaxing than the PF. Or maybe you already know.

And far more profitable than watching a bunch of strangers try to out-douche one another.

 

[n_huffhines]

You'd think ICE would be full of the best people, given the fact that they get the sacred duty of ruining lives, families, and our economy over paperwork crimes.

 

[whodeycin85]

point is every case is unique. You don't always throw the baby out with the bathwater but typically this is what you get when government tries to "fix something"

No offense to your wife friend but if she has lived most of her life her and still doesn't have her paper work together to become a citizens then she needs to go back. Its sad because it personal to you but bottom line is she's had time to be here legally and to continues to be here illegally. That's her personal responsibility.

 

[FLVOL_79]

They're doing what the majority of people elected Trump to do. This should not be a surprise to anyone, unless one is surprised that a politician is doing what they promised to do in campaign season.

This.

 

[jvol1]

First Maine, now Illinois: a suburban Chicago officer’s arrest by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has exposed another stunning breach in the nation’s vetting system, marking at least the second time in three months that an armed lawman turned out to be in the U.S. illegally.

On July 25, according to ICE, Jon Luke Evans, of Jamaica, was serving as a reserve officer with Old Orchard Beach, Maine Police Department when he was arrested after he unlawfully attempted to purchase a gun. Old Orchard Beach, according to the Department of Homeland Security, is considered a sanctuary jurisdiction, due to their refusal to comply with the administration's immigration enforcement efforts.

The back-to-back arrests of Evans and Bojovic, occurring within just three months and both in sanctuary jurisdictions, highlight the Trump administration’s ongoing crackdown aimed at removing illegal aliens from the streets.

View attachment 782223
ICE officials say Jamaican national Jon Luke Evans attempted to illegally purchase a gun for his employment as a local police officer. (Old Orchard Beach Police Department Facebook)

View attachment 782224
Radule Bojovic, an illegal immigrant from Montenegro, was working as a sworn police officer with the Hanover Park Police Department before he was arrested, authorities said Thursday. (Hanover Police Department Faceook)

Both police departments involved have defended their hiring practices and stopped short of accepting responsibility for the vetting failures that allowed the two men to serve as officers.

Two illegal immigrant police officers busted in just 3 months have one thing in common

Jon Luke Evans and Radule Bojovic, serving as police officers in Maine and Illinois, were arrested by ICE for being in the U.S. illegally despite passing background checks.

www.foxnews.com

Let's take a perfectly useful potential citizen and get rid of them. The baby should be thrown out with the bathwater. The pharisees would be pleased with handling deporting a productive person holding down a difficult job because of a paper deficiency in this way.

 

[jvol1]

'Gestapo' is a pretty big and loaded word that should not be used carelessly.

I'm genuinely curious what, specifically 'they' are doing that is wrong or illegal. I've recently heard a few people chastising groups here for not condemning the 'things' ICE is doing, but they don't actually point to the specifics that should be condemned. Would you be willing to post examples, and include why said examples should be attributed to 'ICE' and not just some over-zealous agents?

As a beggar being a chooser, I'll apologize, but I'd like actual details and not vague, unsupported headline accusations--a la huff.

Much appreciated if you take the time and trouble of doing so. No worries if not.

Part of this moment is remaking the right in this country into 21st century nazis, like literally. Those leaked texts the other day just underscore this point. The reason this is being done is to visit the same fate on the 21st century nazis as the one visited on the 20th century ones. The only question is whether the 21st century ones will see the blade in time to deflect the blow. Probably everyone on the left hopes that everyone on the right will start to ask a lot more questions about what's going on right now. It's like getting bit by a rabid animal and not getting the vax.

 

[theFallGuy]

No offense to your wife friend but if she has lived most of her life her and still doesn't have her paper work together to become a citizens then she needs to go back. Its sad because it personal to you but bottom line is she's had time to be here legally and to continues to be here illegally. That's her personal responsibility.

Like I said I don't know all the specifics of her situation or her immigration status. I know she has an attorney "working on some things". I also don't trust the immigration system to not be a complete chitshow for people trying to do the right thing because usually government run systems are. The question is, are we taking people that have immigration cases that are currently in process and just rounding them up to meet a quota? I have mixed feelings about all of it and I'm no immigration attorney.