Too much ice

#652
#652
Sandman 423 said:
I ask a question about how to tell which are which. I didn't say they should be covering their faces, did I?

You can tell you are ignorant of my faith in government.
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you are defending them covering their faces, and arguing with those who don't want ICE to not have masks. and you aren't just arguing they have a bad argument, you are arguing for ICE to wear masks.
 
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#654
#654
LouderVol said:
you are defending them covering their faces, and arguing with those who don't want ICE to not have masks. and you aren't just arguing they have a bad argument, you are arguing for ICE to wear masks.
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You assume to much. I argue that everyone should be held accountable for their actions. If you find yourself on just one side of the mask issue, you are an idiot. I don't believe that ice or the police should ever cover their face. However, they shouldn't have to worry about people, that we elect to represent us, giving out their name and addresses either which makes me understand why they would chose to do it. You don't go after officers for doing their job and you don't defend people that advocate attacking them or their families. Instead change the law that you don't like being enforced.
 
#655
#655
Sandman 423 said:
You assume to much. I argue that everyone should be held accountable for their actions. If you find yourself on just one side of the mask issue, you are an idiot. I don't believe that ice or the police should ever cover their face. However, they shouldn't have to worry about people, that we elect to represent us, giving out their name and addresses either which makes me understand why they would chose to do it. You don't go after officers for doing their job and you don't defend people that advocate attacking them or their families. Instead change the law that you don't like being enforced.
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that is exactly what I have said. and I have said if ICE doesn't like the position they are being put in, should be the loudest ones pushing for change. they know what is going on, and aren't pushing back on being used as blunt instrument that puts them in danger.

it probably wouldn't even take a strike by ICE to get the admin to change how they are being used. probably just one statement backed by X number of ICE agents, and the admin has a PR nightmare on their hands that would force change without removing accountable. if anything it would hold the government accountable.

the situation isn't nearly as impossible as people are acting like. it just takes actions that aren't politically convenient.
 
#656
#656
LouderVol said:
that is exactly what I have said. and I have said if ICE doesn't like the position they are being put in, should be the loudest ones pushing for change. they know what is going on, and aren't pushing back on being used as blunt instrument that puts them in danger.

it probably wouldn't even take a strike by ICE to get the admin to change how they are being used. probably just one statement backed by X number of ICE agents, and the admin has a PR nightmare on their hands that would force change without removing accountable. if anything it would hold the government accountable.

the situation isn't nearly as impossible as people are acting like. it just takes actions that aren't politically convenient.
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I agree with your sentiments, but I decisively disagree with a PR nightmare forcing any degree of change.

Trump and Noem would cream their respective britches and use it to double down, and they'd somehow blame people who think like you and I for it.
 
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#657
#657
Sandman 423 said:
You assume to much. I argue that everyone should be held accountable for their actions. If you find yourself on just one side of the mask issue, you are an idiot. I don't believe that ice or the police should ever cover their face. However, they shouldn't have to worry about people, that we elect to represent us, giving out their name and addresses either which makes me understand why they would chose to do it. You don't go after officers for doing their job and you don't defend people that advocate attacking them or their families. Instead change the law that you don't like being enforced.
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Agreed. ICE is enforcing immigration laws that the previous administration ignored and was not held accountable by anyone for not doing so.
 
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#658
#658
DinkinFlicka said:
I agree with your sentiments, but I decisively disagree with a PR nightmare forcing any degree of change.

Trump and Noem would cream their respective britches and use it to double down, and they'd somehow blame people who think like you and I for it.
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I think how it would turn out depends entirely on what type of message ICE pushed forward. some of the maga balking at the handling of Epstein gives me some hope.

If they are blaming the admin its going to be hard for the admin to spin it on someone else.

if its a general complaint then yeah the admin will of course try and spin it.
 
#659
#659
LouderVol said:
I think how it would turn out depends entirely on what type of message ICE pushed forward. some of the maga balking at the handling of Epstein gives me some hope.

If they are blaming the admin its going to be hard for the admin to spin it on someone else.

if its a general complaint then yeah the admin will of course try and spin it.
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Didn't the admin do that by tossing Epstein into the hoax bin?

Am I tripping acid?
 
#662
#662
tim said:
There’s 20 million illegals. It’s gonna take some coin
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not really. punish those employing them and you dry up the biggest draw for them.

depending no who you believe as many as 1.6 million immigrants have voluntarily self deported.

having a quota system makes it far more expensive than it otherwise would be.
 
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#663
#663
LouderVol said:
not really. punish those employing them and you dry up the biggest draw for them.

depending no who you believe as many as 1.6 million immigrants have voluntarily self deported.

having a quota system makes it far more expensive than it otherwise would be.
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Too many under the table jobs for this to succeed. I do agree with punishing the employers, but farmers and rich folk don’t 10-99 employees.
 
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#666
#666
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#669
#669
#671
#671
Persian Vol said:
Had a patient today who is an FBI agent, says that now they’re making them focus on immigration cases. He hates it.
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It is unfortunate for him. His focus is the result of non-MAGA staying silent as their elected leaders walked 20M illegals across our border. The dems view their supporters as morons and they seem to be right as their silence and inaction spoke volumes.
 
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#672
#672
Persian Vol said:
Had a patient today who is an FBI agent, says that now they’re making them focus on immigration cases. He hates it.
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Probably thought he'd be fighting real crimes, not paperwork violations.

So much energy and resources are getting poured into something that will make our economy worse. So tired of #winning
 
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#674
#674
n_huffhines said:
Probably thought he'd be fighting real crimes, not paperwork violations.

So much energy and resources are getting poured into something that will make our economy worse. So tired of #winning
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depends on what part of the FBI he is with.

depending on what you mean by "paperwork violations" exactly there are any number of FBI offices/divisions that deal with that stuff. Cyber, Counterintelligence, Civil Rights, Corruption, and White Collar. according to the FBI they have about 11k "agents" and 13k "professional support"

its a pretty dismissive term too, "illegal guns" are a paperwork violation. anything tax or fraud related is a paperwork violation, forgery and so forth. with as many laws as we have you could be describing hundreds of different "real" crimes as "paperwork violations"

how does "breaking and entering" sound to you, for anyone who didn't cross at a port of entry?
or "criminal trespassing", just because they had a visa to be here at one point does not guarantee them free access for their lives. just like I can buy a ticket for a concert, but they can kick me out after the show is over, or a tour of a government/public institution doesn't give me license to kick it.

you are trying to make the exception the rule here. those getting tossed because they said something Trump doesn't like are the exceptions. Don't get me wrong, Trump is wrong is to toss them, but that is hardly the rule for what is going on. it would help your cause if you acknowledged that some/most of the people getting tossed are deserving. back in July it was something like 82% of those being deported had criminal records/warrants, or had existing deportation orders. granted at some point that ratio is going to change, and change drastically, but until such time trying to dismiss it as paperwork crimes is false.

its never as bad, or as good, as either side wants to pretend it is.
 
#675
#675
LouderVol said:
not really. punish those employing them and you dry up the biggest draw for them.

depending no who you believe as many as 1.6 million immigrants have voluntarily self deported.

having a quota system makes it far more expensive than it otherwise would be.
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I've said the first part for years. You need some migrants for a few jobs, but they need to do it legally and pay taxes. There is a check system in place I think, make the employers use that to verify if an individual is here legally or not.
 
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