An attempt to explain the drop off in defensive performance

#51
#51
BreatheUT said:
There were some good points from the OP but seriously, "mediocre teams are better than they used to be"?

Arkansas going off on our defense had little to do with an up tempo offense. They marched down the field on the first drive of the game. Unless you're saying our defense was mentally exhausted knowing our uptempo offense was coming onto the field.

I thought Mississippi State had a a good offense until they played Texas A&M the next week and got shutdown.

And in all seriousness, Gunner Stockton played his best game of the year against this defense in Neyland. We all thought it was Georgia just waking up and being Georgia. However, Stockton did not play that well before and hasn't since. Overall, Austin Peay played better defense against Georgia.

I can't say I know what the solutions all are and what's causing all the problems, but it's easy to see gaping holes and lanes not being filled consistently, misalignment, poor 3rd down defense and too many open receivers in critical situations.
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You're arguing one point, when I'm explaining multiple variables that affect a team's progress. What I'm saying is that this years defense is the result of bad timing/ multiple unfortunate circumstances. The holes, misalignments, missed tackles etc. are all things that improve with experience. Theres nothing you can do except throw those kids out there and get them game reps... you should do it, maybe I don't know... when we're up by multiple touchdowns against an inferior opponent? The other half of that coin is the fact that our most experienced safeties/stars are guys like turrentine and McMurray who completely have the defense down and know what to do, but just aren't the most athletic guys. It's a series of unfortunate circumstances.

And yes you can say "well they should be recruiting better". Sometimes you miss on players. Sometimes a guy is committed to you for months and then decommits right before signing day (remember Lagonza Hayward?) and sometimes funds have to be allocated to positions that are considered a bigger need (see the recent success in QB, WR, OL, and LB). The university isn't made of money, and our athletic department spreads NIL across all sports so the coaches have to make do with what they have. Luckily it seems that the recruiting has turned around so we won't have to worry about it much longer.

@LWSVOL would you say my statements are fairly accurate?
 
#53
#53
Heupel's Offseason Beard said:
In time, they'll get better. These are young guys playing in a new system with a next level speed of play

Some are still in the "oh ****, what's my assignment, where do I go" phase.

Pretty soon they'll be in the "ok, my assignment is this, I need to go here" phase

With more game experience, eventually it'll just be "GO"

I don't know. I'm seeing random improvements from different players throughout the season. I just think we're seeing a lot of learning curves going on all at once. It's rarely a dude getting beat. It's almost always a dude being out of position or getting caught watching the QB in zone and not breaking to the ball quick enough. I just hope things keep improving because we have a lot of talented guys
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1) We can’t hold gaps in the intererior like last year. And this effects LB play.

2) We don’t have stingy run support from the secondary because Thomas and Charles were allowed to leave. Boo is in and out of his head. And we’re too young and not as talented as we need to be there.

3) Banks is calling a soft zone and those are basically free yards.

IMO (sorry I’ve stated this multiple times today)
But the. Off-season was not well spent defensively. That interior Dline is so suspect.
Spillman still play’s undisciplined which is why he hasn’t outright taken the job form Telander.

They really need to spend millions on defense in the portal and let the young guys come in and compete.

Jowell Combey should be a starter. And the who else a safety? Farooq is physical but often gets out of position and he’s not big. Not sold on Wyatt. Merritt needs to move back to safety. Poteat I think will be the STAR next season.
 
#54
#54
BreatheUT said:
There were some good points from the OP but seriously, "mediocre teams are better than they used to be"?

Arkansas going off on our defense had little to do with an up tempo offense. They marched down the field on the first drive of the game. Unless you're saying our defense was mentally exhausted knowing our uptempo offense was coming onto the field.

I thought Mississippi State had a a good offense until they played Texas A&M the next week and got shutdown.

And in all seriousness, Gunner Stockton played his best game of the year against this defense in Neyland. We all thought it was Georgia just waking up and being Georgia. However, Stockton did not play that well before and hasn't since. Overall, Austin Peay played better defense against Georgia.

I can't say I know what the solutions all are and what's causing all the problems, but it's easy to see gaping holes and lanes not being filled consistently, misalignment, poor 3rd downW
BreatheUT said:
There were some good points from the OP but seriously, "mediocre teams are better than they used to be"?

Arkansas going off on our defense had little to do with an up tempo offense. They marched down the field on the first drive of the game. Unless you're saying our defense was mentally exhausted knowing our uptempo offense was coming onto the field.

I thought Mississippi State had a a good offense until they played Texas A&M the next week and got shutdown.

And in all seriousness, Gunner Stockton played his best game of the year against this defense in Neyland. We all thought it was Georgia just waking up and being Georgia.However, Stockton did not play that well before and hasn't since. Overall, Austin Peay played better defense against Georgia.
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You ever thought about why most every qb and rb we play has the best game of the year against us? There is a reason for that.

 
#55
#55
Heupel's Offseason Beard said:
You're arguing one point, when I'm explaining multiple variables that affect a team's progress. What I'm saying is that this years defense is the result of bad timing/ multiple unfortunate circumstances. The holes, misalignments, missed tackles etc. are all things that improve with experience. Theres nothing you can do except throw those kids out there and get them game reps... you should do it, maybe I don't know... when we're up by multiple touchdowns against an inferior opponent? The other half of that coin is the fact that our most experienced safeties/stars are guys like turrentine and McMurray who completely have the defense down and know what to do, but just aren't the most athletic guys. It's a series of unfortunate circumstances.

And yes you can say "well they should be recruiting better". Sometimes you miss on players. Sometimes a guy is committed to you for months and then decommits right before signing day (remember Lagonza Hayward?) and sometimes funds have to be allocated to positions that are considered a bigger need (see the recent success in QB, WR, OL, and LB). The university isn't made of money, and our athletic department spreads NIL across all sports so the coaches have to make do with what they have. Luckily it seems that the recruiting has turned around so we won't have to worry about it much longer.

@LWSVOL would you say my statements are fairly accurate?
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Our talent is just not as good as many would like it believe but that is true across the conference now. I don't know if its NIL or Portal or both having that effect. I've watched every SEC game thus far this year (haven't finished yesterday games yet) and I just see teams not as good as they have been, from a talent standpoint.

Alabama and Georgia have been the bell cows of the conference for several years now. They still have a lot of talent but they also have players that have to play that just don't measure up to the championship caliber they've had. Its across the board. Look at Ole Miss. A QB from Ferris State has them without a loss at this point. They have losses coming and you can count on that.

So when teams have holes, from a talent standpoint, those holes are going to cost you as the season moves along. Inexpereince for Tennessee is a big deal for us. I've stated elsewhere how many "new" starters we have this year. that equates to inexperience and mistakes, especially in the SEC.

Having said that, Tennessee is 5-1 halfway through the season. They go 5-1 and in the last half, they will be in the college football playoffs. All this angst will be for nothing. Accept wins no matter how ugly the wins look. You always take them.

I've not read the entire thread so might be speaking out of context. But Tennessee fans should be very happy right now, not upset or disappointed. 5-1 and ranked 11th in the country...
 
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#56
#56
LWSVOL said:
Our talent is just not as good as many would like it believe but that is true across the conference now. I don't know if its NIL or Portal or both having that effect. I've watched every SEC game thus far this year (haven't finished yesterday games yet) and I just see teams not as good as they have been, from a talent standpoint.

Alabama and Georgia have been the bell cows of the conference for several years now. They still have a lot of talent but they also have players that have to play that just don't measure up to the championship caliber they've had. Its across the board. Look at Ole Miss. A QB from Ferris State has them without a loss at this point. They have losses coming and you can count on that.

So when teams have holes, from a talent standpoint, those holes are going to cost you as the season moves along. Inexpereince for Tennessee is a big deal for us. I've stated elsewhere how many "new" starters we have this year. that equates to inexperience and mistakes, especially in the SEC.

Having said that, Tennessee is 5-1 halfway through the season. They go 5-1 and in the last half, they will be in the college football playoffs. All this angst will be for nothing. Accept wins no matter how ugly the wins look. You always take them.

I've not read the entire thread so might be speaking out of context. But Tennessee fans should be very happy right now, not upset or disappointed. 5-1 and ranked 11th in the country...
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Well put, Larry. Thank you for your insight. I think the portal is definitely getting in the way of teams retaining a cohesive unit with one goal in mind. Guys coming in and out can disturb a locker room quickly. I think this is something that Heupel saw coming, and it's why he and his staff have been so picky with their portal additions. In recruiting, he also seems to put a ton of emphasis on "team first" guys. You hear it in the player interviews all talking about "building a culture". I think handling a locker room is one of Heupel's strengths that people don't really think about. Remember, he was a JUCO transfer who won the starting job at Oklahoma and led them to a championship that same year. That takes heart and all kinds of guts. He may be awkward in front of the camera, but I guarantee he can light a fire under these kids' asses at halftime.

I just wish that my fellow Vols fans could see what I see going on around Rocky Top. We've played SO WELL during a very tumultuous time for the university and we haven't even hit our peak yet. These young guys might get lost at times, but I've been seeing a lot of them taking advantage of the moment recently, and that has me thrilled for the future.
 
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#57
#57
cgrish said:
You ever thought about why most every qb and rb we play has the best game of the year against us? There is a reason for that.
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Last year, our defense literally ended multiple QB's careers. We just have a bunch of young guys. I can almost guarantee that we're going to have a top 10-25 defense again in the next two years when our young guys grow up.
 
#58
#58
The defensive challenges are pretty simple in my book and the Arkansas game was a perfect example.

1. Poor run fits. D-Line are not getting off of blocks and LBs are not filling/pursuing well. When we corrected this we scored 17 unanswered points and stuffed them. This includes contain when 10 got out and killed us on third and forever. Fundamentals matter.
2. Poor Tackling. We don't hit we catch. Lack of physicality and form at the point of contact are giving too many YAC.
3. Young secondary. Doing better than it appears but down two high level starters we just don't see the routes developing fast enough and we tend to blow assignments.

This defense is opportunistic and have helped us win games. Heck, they got turnovers the offense did NOTHING with which was why this game remained close. It is a team sport and when the offense and defense play complimentary football, this team is VERY, VERY good. Is Bama the week we put it all together? They have similar problems on D so we should be able to score. May be a who has the ball last type of game.
 
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#61
#61
One thing that most didn't notice In the game, during the game (I didn't either) we did d
Something er haven't done all year, we put Hood on there best reciever everywhere in the field. Thats a bye week install and it worked. Banks knew Patrino would scheme his guy to Boo or Redmond and countered it! That's good coaching! I'm sure that had some affect on how fast pur guys were "thinking". ALSO, we may have e to do the same thing a Alabama, so atleast we got reps at it.
I got this good feeling that the D puts a whole game together and looks elite against Bama. The offense just might break records down there. They cannot cover Brazzel, Stanley, and Mathews!!!!
 
#63
#63
All this talk about player talent/execution is moot as it is simply the scheme and coaching. I don't know how much more obvious it could be. Banks' soft zone is just comical at this point...corners just line up and stand stationary 7 yards behind the line to gain. Just over and over again. Pure and utter stupidity.
 
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#64
#64
Defensive rankings at mid-point of season:

Points per game: 104th
3rd down defense: 69th
4th down defense: 106th
Passing yards allowed: 121st
Rushing yards allowed: 59th
Red zone defense: 111th
 
#66
#66
Godfatha said:
Defensive rankings at mid-point of season:

Points per game: 104th
3rd down defense: 69th
4th down defense: 106th
Passing yards allowed: 121st
Rushing yards allowed: 59th
Red zone defense: 111th
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You forgot a few stats:

Sacks: 1st
Fumbles recovered: 2nd
Defensive touchdowns: 2nd
Tackles for loss: 7th
Turnovers gained: 16th
Time of Possession: 124th


Guys. Can we just do a TINY bit of analysis before calling for the heads of coaches who are adored by players?
 
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#67
#67
Heupel's Offseason Beard said:
You forgot a few stats:

Sacks: 1st
Fumbles recovered: 2nd
Defensive touchdowns: 2nd
Tackles for loss: 7th
Turnovers gained: 16th
Time of Possession: 124th


Guys. Can we just do a TINY bit of analysis before calling for the heads of coaches who are adored by players?
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The stats you ignore are analysis, just analysis you don’t like.

Much of what you stated is meaningless when the PPG, the most important stat is 104th.
 
#68
#68
I’m hoping if we get McCoy back(notice I said IF) I hope it will allow Banks to play less zone since McCoy and Hood should be able to man up against most receivers. I realize they don’t want to give up the big play but this death by 1000 cuts when you can’t get off the field really sucks as a fan. On 3rd down just play tight man with 2 deep safeties and if they beat you deep they have to make a perfect throw
 
#69
#69
Godfatha said:
The stats you ignore are analysis, just analysis you don’t like.

Much of what you stated is meaningless when the PPG, the most important stat is 104th.
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That's not true dude. I know that the defense is struggling. The ENTIRE point of the post is for people to understand the complexities and catalysts that can cause a team to drop off like this. If you're saying that your statistics are the end all be all of if a coach is good or not, well then consider Banks' rankings last year:
Total defense yards: 6th in the nation
Points per game: 7th in the nation
3rd down defense: 6th in the nation
Stop rate: 3rd in the nation

Now you can either say:
1. Last year was just a complete fluke
2. Tim Banks just isn't trying this year
3. Maybe replacing so much EXPERIENCED production who all played together for 3-4 years with 1st and 2nd year players while also dealing with injuries and switching back to an up tempo offense is going to cause a some confusion and mistakes to happen.

Starting to make sense? There are more complex things at play than just "Tim Banks sucks"
 
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#70
#70
Heupel's Offseason Beard said:
That's not true dude. I know that the defense is struggling. The ENTIRE point of the post is for people to understand the complexities and catalysts that can cause a team to drop off like this. If you're saying that your statistics are the end all be all of if a coach is good or not, well then consider Banks' rankings last year:
Total defense yards: 6th in the nation
Points per game: 7th in the nation
3rd down defense: 6th in the nation
Stop rate: 3rd in the nation

Now you can either say:
1. Last year was just a complete fluke
2. Tim Banks just isn't trying this year
3. Maybe replacing so much EXPERIENCED production who all played together for 3-4 years with 1st and 2nd year players while also dealing with injuries and switching back to an up tempo offense is going to cause a some confusion and mistakes to happen.

Starting to make sense? There are more complex things at play than just "Tim Banks sucks"
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Last year’s stats were kinda boom/bust. Against bowl teams, Tennessee was 36th in total defense, 26th in scoring defense, and 36th in 3rd down conversion rate. Those are good—really good—numbers, but they reflect a schedule that only ended up including 3 games against ranked opponents. Tennessee’s total defense in YPP against ranked teams was 8th in the SEC and 29th nationally.

When you take away elite talent lost in the draft and to injury, a modest decline doesn’t take a ton of analysis.
 
#71
#71
Heupel's Offseason Beard said:
And..... while those things can be true, they can also be examined. Not just "this thing bad...this thing good". Try asking "why is this aspect of the team performing poorly?" Not "WHO DO I BLAME AND DEMAND WE FIRE NOW?"
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I know you mentioned this, but safety recruiting has to improve. Like you mentioned, we got a couple of studs committed to us so that’s good. But in year 5 we should have better caliber players back there.
 
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#72
#72
Visidog said:
Last year’s stats were kinda boom/bust. Against bowl teams, Tennessee was 36th in total defense, 26th in scoring defense, and 36th in 3rd down conversion rate. Those are good—really good—numbers, but they reflect a schedule that only ended up including 3 games against ranked opponents. Tennessee’s total defense in YPP against ranked teams was 8th in the SEC and 29th nationally.

When you take away elite talent lost in the draft and to injury, a modest decline doesn’t take a ton of analysis.
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Apparently it does for the majority of this fan base. That's the point of the post. To remind people of everything that's happened between this season and last season, and that this season was always going to be a rebuilding year. A LOT of fans were saying we were going to lose to Syracuse, Arkansas, Mississippi St and that we had no chance at beating Georgia this offseason. They can deny it now, but I saw all of the hand wringing this offseason. Now we're one missed field goal away from being a top 5 team despite everything that's happened.

Yes we should have probably held onto Jakobe Thomas. But Miami has been known to pay way over market value for players so decisions had to be made. Yes, it would have been great to get a top safety in the portal. But we don't know the whole financial situation. Colton Hood was brought in because of his versatility at corner and safety so maybe that was their answer before Rickey went down and he had to slide to corner?

All I know is that this is a very young, inexperienced, and injury plagued defense that is generating a ton of sacks, turnovers, and defensive touchdowns. And we're on track to make the playoffs in a year where many wrote us off. Is it perfect? No. Does it work? So far, yes it has worked.
 
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