So flying the english flag is now racist.

[n_huffhines]

You mean Irish and Italians and Germans turn of the century who blended in and learned English fluently?

There are also the Chinese and the Dutch, and the Polish, and the Scandinavians, etc....the complaint with every wave was that language was a problem and immigrants didn't integrate enough...but with historical hindsight we can see they were all wrong. The people saying it about Mexicans and Central Americans in the 80s and 90s were also wrong. LOL. Are the people saying this finally right this time? Or are you just repeating a common lie from history?

 

[n_huffhines]

Hey huff. What happens when a computer code suddenly cannot communicate with another code?

System failure?

Why is that Huff?

Because it's a computer program, LOL.

We're not talking about a software program where complete top-down control can be achieved by following the rules of the language. We're talking about society and culture, which survives and adapts. We're not so fragile that the whole app breaks because God forgot to close a bracket.

 

[EasternVol]

Would you say effective communication is necessary for a people to live in a peaceful and prosperous nation?

When have we been peaceful? We were pretty prosperous from 1900 to 1930, well 1929 anyway, with a lower rate of English proficiency than from1980 to 2010. Table 3 refers.

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/irpb14.pdf

 

[EasternVol]

You mean Irish and Italians and Germans turn of the century who blended in and learned English fluently?

Did they at a high rate or was it their children?

 

[207 others]

Access to white countries is a human right and flag flying is hindering this, it is a global united world nation now!!

 

[volfanhill]

Access to white countries is a human right and flag flying is hindering this, it is a global united world nation now!!

We are royally screwed if we don't figure out how to get more people immigrating here. The population replacement rate demands it. Doesn't mean we can't be selective.

 

[LouderVol]

No, higher up the list than that.

really, can you point to any issue that was a threat to this country that was created by some people not speaking english?

 

[MemphisVol77]

@hog88 Hasn't POTUS gone back and forth the past few administrations undoing each others EO's requiring CDL drivers to understand English? I can think of a few high profile trucking accidents involving fatalities over the past few years where some claimed the driver wasn't at fault because he didn't understand the signage.

I've read a few concern articles over the years from Guardian & Huffpost type rags about the difficulties children of non English speaking immigrants have enrolling and participating in public services(school) or receiving healthcare. They have my sympathy, but I don't want the government trying to solve their problems with my tax dollars.

Google translation and advancement in Ai translation helps, but it certainly isn't always applicable or viable in real time. There's obviously a need for some baseline standardization of communication.

 

[LouderVol]

Be my guest and show some stats on this. How many 1st generation German immigrants pre WW2 never learned English? Or pick any other immigrant group for all I care.

Then show us the stats for 2nd generation immigrants in the same time frame. It didn’t and doesn’t take generations.

As for german:

Study debunks myth that early immigrants quickly learned English

Joseph Salmons has always been struck by the pervasiveness of the argument. In his visits across Wisconsin, in many newspaper letters to the editor, and in the national debates raging over modern immigration, he encounters the same refrain:

news.wisc.edu

"Not only did many early immigrants not feel compelled out of practicality to learn English quickly upon arriving in America, they appeared to live and thrive for decades while speaking exclusively German."

Second and third generation

"Some second- and even third-generation German immigrants who were born in Wisconsin were still monolingual in German as adults.

“These folks were committed Americans,” says Salmons. “They participated in politics, in the economy, and were leaders in their churches and their schools. They just happened not to conduct much of their life in English.”"

Percentages

"In 1910, the researchers still found robust populations of German-only speakers in these communities. The census identified 24 percent German-only speakers in Hustisford, 22 percent in Schleswig (Manitowoc County), 21 percent in Hamburg and 18 percent in Kiel."


German in government coorespondence.

" The researchers found correspondence in the 1890s from school districts to the office of the state school superintendent that were written entirely in German. This is after the Bennett law of 1889 that required schools to be taught in English."

For general trends. This only goes up to 2010, but other data suggests the percentage of English speakers continue to rise.

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/immigrants-learn-english-immigrants-language

 

[LouderVol]

So you can't call fascism "fascism?" LOL

We literally have the Trump admin defying judges, attacking them in the press, bypassing due process and privacy protections from the Constitution, we've got troops in the streets of our cities that are unwanted from both the city and state governments, we're deporting legal immigrants over their speech, we're doing loyalty tests to the president, we're bombing fishing boats for no reason (can't even name the "terrorists" that we are certain we killed), the admin is finding all kinds of ways to punish the press and speech, and we can't call it fascism?

I get it if I were saying "MAGA fascists want you dead." That would be fear-mongering. But saying "MAGA fascism" is just an accurate label.

Under Biden and Obama I called it "authoritarianism," and I don't recall anybody here thinking that was fear-mongering.

its still just "authoritarianism". you are getting lost in the rhetoric and losing site of truth.

Obama signed into law a secret bill no one saw before hand. Obama ordered the direct killing of Americans, just because they happened to be overseas. either of those are far more "fascist" than having troops in the streets.

again there are some things that Trump does that are actually more fascist than authoritarian, but no one seems to complain about those aspects.

communists also deny judges, communists attack enemies in the press, they bypass due process, they have troops in the streets, they deported the unwanted, certainly had loyalty tests. like if you took that whole paragraph of yours and looked at Stalin, you would find the same things. why? because he was also authoritarian, but certainly wasn't fascist.

 

[LouderVol]

You mean Irish and Italians and Germans turn of the century who blended in and learned English fluently?

got data to back that up?

 

[MemphisVol77]

really, can you point to any issue that was a threat to this country that was created by some people not speaking english?

I don't know that's it's a threat but order a "medium" coffee at Starbucks and tell it me isnt worth fighting over!!!

 

[LouderVol]

I don't know that's it's a threat but order a "medium" coffee at Starbucks and tell it me isnt worth fighting over!!!

easy, don't go to Starbucks. I pass three other coffee shops, at least one of them being a chain like Dunkin, on the way to any starbucks I would go to. its not like you are lacking in options, and from what I have heard starbucks coffee is pretty mid.

take away good mexican food from me, and you will have a worse problem.

 

[midnight orange]

When have we been peaceful? We were pretty prosperous from 1900 to 1930, well 1929 anyway, with a lower rate of English proficiency than from1980 to 2010. Table 3 refers.

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/irpb14.pdf

Like most Cato studies….that one is bunk. Deceptive methodology.

 

[MemphisVol77]

easy, don't go to Starbucks. I pass three other coffee shops, at least one of them being a chain like Dunkin, on the way to any starbucks I would go to. its not like you are lacking in options, and from what I have heard starbucks coffee is pretty mid.

take away good mexican food from me, and you will have a worse problem.

Lol, I don't go to Starbucks but it's because they're over priced. I was just joking about how cliche it's become for them to recite it back "grande" or "venti" depending on what size you ordered.

 

[LouderVol]

Like most Cato studies….that one is bunk. Deceptive methodology.

using the census is bunk?

"This brief uses decennial U.S. Census data from the1900–1930 and 1980–2010 censuses to compare English fluency rates for the groups of foreign-born residents in eachperiod.12"

 

[midnight orange]

using the census is bunk?

"This brief uses decennial U.S. Census data from the1900–1930 and 1980–2010 censuses to compare English fluency rates for the groups of foreign-born residents in eachperiod.12"

Keep reading.

“The 1900–1930 decennial Census reported on a binary scale whether respondents knew English or not. Starting in 1980, the government altered the question to measure the level of English language proficiency on a spectrum. For comparability with prior data, we recoded the 1980–2010 responses as a binary “know English” or “don’t know English.” The original version of the 1980–2010 question has a three-point proficiency scale: “speaks [English] very well,” “speaks [English] well,” and “speaks [English] but not well.” For our analysis we have combined all three responses into “know English.”

 

[hog88]

As for german:

Study debunks myth that early immigrants quickly learned English

Joseph Salmons has always been struck by the pervasiveness of the argument. In his visits across Wisconsin, in many newspaper letters to the editor, and in the national debates raging over modern immigration, he encounters the same refrain:

news.wisc.edu

"Not only did many early immigrants not feel compelled out of practicality to learn English quickly upon arriving in America, they appeared to live and thrive for decades while speaking exclusively German."

Second and third generation

"Some second- and even third-generation German immigrants who were born in Wisconsin were still monolingual in German as adults.

“These folks were committed Americans,” says Salmons. “They participated in politics, in the economy, and were leaders in their churches and their schools. They just happened not to conduct much of their life in English.”"

Percentages

"In 1910, the researchers still found robust populations of German-only speakers in these communities. The census identified 24 percent German-only speakers in Hustisford, 22 percent in Schleswig (Manitowoc County), 21 percent in Hamburg and 18 percent in Kiel."


German in government coorespondence.

" The researchers found correspondence in the 1890s from school districts to the office of the state school superintendent that were written entirely in German. This is after the Bennett law of 1889 that required schools to be taught in English."

For general trends. This only goes up to 2010, but other data suggests the percentage of English speakers continue to rise.

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/immigrants-learn-english-immigrants-language

So less than a 1/4 percent did not speak English after almost 30 years. How does that back up your argument?

 

[LouderVol]

So less than a 1/4 percent did not speak English after almost 30 years. How does that back up your argument?

my bad, I forgot to quote that part of the second study, but its currently 91% of immigrants who speak english.

you think its a problem NOW. so you should have been twice as freaked out by the 1800s percentages.

 

[LouderVol]

Keep reading.

“The 1900–1930 decennial Census reported on a binary scale whether respondents knew English or not. Starting in 1980, the government altered the question to measure the level of English language proficiency on a spectrum. For comparability with prior data, we recoded the 1980–2010 responses as a binary “know English” or “don’t know English.” The original version of the 1980–2010 question has a three-point proficiency scale: “speaks [English] very well,” “speaks [English] well,” and “speaks [English] but not well.” For our analysis we have combined all three responses into “know English.”

its still true, all three of those options "Speak English". so its not incompatible with the previous data.

it would be bunk if they claimed the census in 1930 meant they spoke English very well.

 

[midnight orange]

its still true, all three of those options "Speak English". so its not incompatible with the previous data.

it would be bunk if they claimed the census in 1930 meant they spoke English very well.

It’s not true. It’s apples and oranges and worse if you read further in the methodology. Cato is basically known for coming up with a conclusion and creating a “study” that “proves” their claim. This is exactly that. They even say as much further in their methodology.

Cato exists to serve the “got a link?” and “prove me wrong” bros who just want an easy answer and ignore their shoddy “research”.

 

[Sandman 423]

It is funny to see the the far right from the greatest colonizer of modern history get butthurt about other people living among them.

Is that why they are upset?

 

[C-south]

easy, don't go to Starbucks. I pass three other coffee shops, at least one of them being a chain like Dunkin, on the way to any starbucks I would go to. its not like you are lacking in options, and from what I have heard starbucks coffee is pretty mid.

take away good mexican food from me, and you will have a worse problem.

How do you read the menus.

 

[LouderVol]

It’s not true. It’s apples and oranges and worse if you read further in the methodology. Cato is basically known for coming up with a conclusion and creating a “study” that “proves” their claim. This is exactly that. They even say as much further in their methodology.

Cato exists to serve the “got a link?” and “prove me wrong” bros who just want an easy answer and ignore their shoddy “research”.

yes it is true:

"Speaks English very well"
"Speaks English well"
"Speaks English, but not well"

literally, all three of those options include "Speaks English", which was the claim.

I also linked a study by UW on towns in Wisconsin. there are other studies that support what CATO is saying. you can go dig up the history on any of these towns and other communities and find similar stories. There was no great push to "englishize" the immigrants as they came in.

you just bought the textbook version of history. that is far more watered down than anything CATO has put out there.

 

[midnight orange]

yes it is true:

"Speaks English very well"
"Speaks English well"
"Speaks English, but not well"

literally, all three of those options include "Speaks English", which was the claim.

I also linked a study by UW on towns in Wisconsin. there are other studies that support what CATO is saying. you can go dig up the history on any of these towns and other communities and find similar stories. There was no great push to "englishize" the immigrants as they came in.

you just bought the textbook version of history. that is far more watered down than anything CATO has put out there.

So a kid in Nepal who can say “Nike” is considered an English speaker. Good to know. Great methodology.

“but I linked a study”