President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

#43,626
#43,626
luthervol said:
That's not the only positive.
I'm just assuming there will be negatives because there are always tradeoffs.....but maybe not.
Click to expand...
One huge negative is that the state cannot provide healthcare to citizens.

They produce neither healthcare, nor the money to pay for healthcare. So, what you are doing is arguing for the state to take the wealth that some people worked for, and give it to those who have not worked for it.

So this is not a discussion about the state "providing" anything for anyone. It's not even a discussion about what they may or may not do well. It's a moral discussion that consists also of what "right" people have to the benefits.

It's nice to see you couching your responses in "opinion" and "I think" vocabulary since some of the more recent hard discussions you've been a part of. But since this is a moral conversation about taking from those who worked for their wealth to give to those who didn't, I'm not sure you can have the discussion at the "opinion" level. Those who worked for their wealth can rightly say, "I don't really care what you think about my wealth or what should be done with it."
 
#43,627
#43,627
Orange_Crush said:
One huge negative is that the state cannot provide healthcare to citizens.

They produce neither healthcare, nor the money to pay for healthcare. So, what you are doing is arguing for the state to take the wealth that some people worked for, and give it to those who have not worked for it.

So this is not a discussion about the state "providing" anything for anyone. It's not even a discussion about what they may or may not do well. It's a moral discussion that consists also of what "right" people have to the benefits.

It's nice to see you couching your responses in "opinion" and "I think" vocabulary since some of the more recent hard discussions you've been a part of. But since this is a moral conversation about taking from those who worked for their wealth to give to those who didn't, I'm not sure you can have the discussion at the "opinion" level. Those who worked for their wealth can rightly say, "I don't really care what you think about my wealth or what should be done with it."
Click to expand...
God grief.
I'll be honest, I only read the first couple of your sentences....
Education
Roads and highways
Parks an rec.
Prisons
Courts
Fire
Police
 
#43,628
#43,628
luthervol said:
That's not the only positive.
I'm just assuming there will be negatives because there are always tradeoffs.....but maybe not.
Click to expand...
We’re going to nationalize healthcare and there won’t be any negative trade offs?

That’s rather Pollyannaish. I have a hard time believing the “maybe not” here.

What happens when you spread the same amount of goods/services across an increased consumer base?
 
#43,630
#43,630
luthervol said:
God grief.
I'll be honest, I only read the first couple of your sentences....
Education
Roads and highways
Parks an rec.
Prisons
Courts
Fire
Police
Click to expand...
You probably should have read all of it. Your argument is like claiming that any time one forcibly takes from an individual, it's moral because they've been forcibly taken from before, so why even discuss this time or ask the question?

Would you care to actually discuss why it would be moral to do so in this case?
 
Last edited:
#43,631
#43,631
Orange_Crush said:
You probably should have read all of it. Your argument is like claiming that any time one forcibly takes from an individual, it's moral because they've been forcibly taken from before, so why even discuss this time or ask the question?

Would you care to actually discuss why it would be moral to do so in this case?
Click to expand...
Nope
 
#43,632
#43,632
Orange_Crush said:
You probably should have read all of it. Your argument is like claiming that any time one forcibly takes from an individual, it's moral because they've been forcibly taken from before, so why even discuss this time or ask the question?

Would you care to actually discuss why it would be moral to do so in this case?
Click to expand...
Looking at his examples, reading is the least of his worries.
 
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#43,635
#43,635
85SugarVol said:
We’re going to nationalize healthcare and there won’t be any negative trade offs?

That’s rather Pollyannaish. I have a hard time believing the “maybe not” here.

What happens when you spread the same amount of goods/services across an increased consumer base?
Click to expand...
You cannot nationalize America's version of health care. Our pharmaceutical usage, Dr visits, and surgical procedures are some of (if not the) highest usage in the world. And yet, we do not lead the world in health scores and quality of life indexes.
 
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#43,636
#43,636
McDad said:
You cannot nationalize America's version of health care. Our pharmaceutical usage, Dr visits, and surgical procedures are some of (if not the) highest usage in the world. And yet, we do not lead the world in health scores and quality of life indexes.
Click to expand...
That's a great point.
Yet many still claim we have the best healthcare in the world.
....and then many of those same people claim our educational system sux based solely on "scores and indexes".
 
#43,637
#43,637
luthervol said:
That's a great point.
Yet many still claim we have the best healthcare in the world.
....and then many of those same people claim our educational system sux based solely on "scores and indexes".
Click to expand...

We do have the best healthcare in the world if you look at actual outcomes that matter.
 
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#43,638
#43,638
luthervol said:
That's a great point.
Yet many still claim we have the best healthcare in the world.
....and then many of those same people claim our educational system sux based solely on "scores and indexes".
Click to expand...

We do have the best healthcare in the world and by every measure of survival it’s proven true.
 
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#43,641
#43,641
Here's AI's view................first sentence.

The U.S. ranks around the 50th globally for life expectancy and significantly lower than other wealthy nations, with projections suggesting a further decline.
 
#43,642
#43,642
luthervol said:
That's a great point.
Yet many still claim we have the best healthcare in the world.
....and then many of those same people claim our educational system sux based solely on "scores and indexes".
Click to expand...
We have the best healthcare in the world - for those that can access it. That’s a huge caveat, obviously.

And it doesn’t come cheap - most things people want, don’t.

We have some of the best Private education in the world (some really good Public too, in pockets). A lot of the Public is abysmal, though.
 
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#43,644
#43,644
McDad said:
You cannot nationalize America's version of health care. Our pharmaceutical usage, Dr visits, and surgical procedures are some of (if not the) highest usage in the world. And yet, we do not lead the world in health scores and quality of life indexes.
Click to expand...
Ok you can argue semantics. How would you classify “Universal Healthcare”?
 
#43,646
#43,646
McDad said:
You cannot nationalize America's version of health care. Our pharmaceutical usage, Dr visits, and surgical procedures are some of (if not the) highest usage in the world. And yet, we do not lead the world in health scores and quality of life indexes.
Click to expand...

A lot of those scores and indexes are not true measures of healthcare quality either. For example life expectancy.

If you adjust for things like car crashes and drug overdoses, Americans lead the world in that category. We do not have car crashes due to a lack of quality care nor due to “access to care”.
 
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#43,648
#43,648
luthervol said:
Life expectancy seems as if it would be the outcome that matters most.

And we're like 28th......maybe.......at best......the last time I checked.
Click to expand...

And if you adjust for things like car crashes and overdoses we are first.

Do Americans die of car crashes more than the Japanese due to poor healthcare?
 
#43,649
#43,649
luthervol said:
That's a great point.
Yet many still claim we have the best healthcare in the world.
....and then many of those same people claim our educational system sux based solely on "scores and indexes".
Click to expand...
I think we have the best 'cutting edge' care in the world. Likely the best emergency services, too. I haven't checked into it but that is my gut feeling. Also, suspect we innovate more in medical care than anyone else. Capitalism is at a natural advantage for that.
We don't do so well at staying healthy, though.
 
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