Charlie Kirk Shot and killed

[volbeast33]

And my question is why does everything Charlie said require context? I don’t recall ever searching for context when quoting people worth quoting.

First day on the internet? Everybody does gotcha quotes, nowadays. That is including the mainstream media. If I find a story that is interesting, I have to find four or five stories on the topic to determine the truth.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

Was it OK for Kirk to play a partial CEO quote, intentionally misrepresent it or does this lack of full context only go 1 way?

 

[Smokey123]

Why does it matter when it was said? He clarified his feelings when questioned. It has been proven that when you have racial quotas then usually standards are lowered. Look at the lawsuit against Harvard as an example.

CK did a podcast/college tours. It is fine to disagree with him and maybe beat him in a debate. The racist, mysoginist being thrown around is ridiculous though.

It matters because it provides the correct context, he himself said he was looking through a racial lens yet some on here say otherwise. Very odd

 

[volbeast33]

Thanks for agreeing the comment was race related

Aren’t we discussing DEI?

 

[hndog609]

Thanks for agreeing the comment was race related

It would have been exactly the same statement if he'd used "female". In fact it would have probably played better if he had*.

*I actually wonder if he made that observation as well. He might have but I don't know.

 

[Smokey123]

Aren’t we discussing DEI?

People in this thread said he was saying that based off merit and not race.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

View attachment 778012

Kirk said their entire pilot base (all 20-25K of them by 2029) was going to be 50/50. The clip was edited to avoid any discussion about it being a training school and only included when CEO said the entire pilot class would be 50/50. Kirk thought this was talking about all 20K pilots at United and not the 400-500 that annually will go through the school.

The school was just a small portion of the pilot base of United

 

[MOOOOONEY]

And my question is why does everything Charlie said require context? I don’t recall ever searching for context when quoting people worth quoting.

That’s the question I’m asking.

Why not share the full context?

Why take snippets?

Don’t mislead the public. Post the whole content and then let the public decide.

 

[volbeast33]

It matters because it provides the correct context, he himself said he was looking through a racial lens yet some on here say otherwise. Very odd

I think people are not claiming that it involved race but that it wasn’t racist. There is a difference.

 

[jp1]

No, they said they want their training program to be 50%, not all pilots in the program pass and meet the standards. Some airlines even encourage children of former pilots to join. Encouraging more women and POC to pursue a career isn’t lowering qualifications

Correct.....hire was not the right word, instead train.

 

[Smokey123]

It would have been exactly the same statement if he'd used "female". In fact it would have probably played better if he had*.

*I actually wonder if he made that observation as well. He might have but I don't know.

Yes except he didn’t mention females, Asians, etc. only blacks

 

[LouderVol]

And my question is why does everything Charlie said require context? I don’t recall ever searching for context when quoting people worth quoting.

usually Kirk's quotes come from his debates where there is at least some back and forth. knowing the question, the prompt, or the full statement would clearly be important to understanding what is said. we also have multiple examples in this thread where some of Kirks comments were clearly taken out of context.

at least in the political arena we don't get a lot of real debate or conversation between both sides, so there are limited examples where the person being quoted is actually responding to a direct prompt. so rarely is that context necessary. most politicians take any prompt and just run sideways with it to whatever point they wanted to make while barely even acknowledging the prompt. others are taken from press conferences, or some heated argument with a political foe.

regardless I find it difficult to assume much of what Kirk said should be taken as direct implications of how he thought things should be when he died. some of these are years old, and don't compare what he said then to what he said at the end. also given the format its unlikely Kirk was up their preaching, but again responding to prompts. and anyone says enough things they are eventually going to say something hypocritical, it does little to dismiss him as a whole. and these debates aren't people he really knows he probably isn't going to be able to speak directly to their situation and will stick with generalities. trying to get specific to how Kirk would handle that exact situation wouldn't make sense.

^and I still don't really care for Kirk or most of his stances.

 

[volbeast33]

People in this thread said he was saying that based off merit and not race.

CK said that people should be hired based off merit and not race. DEI promotes race instead of merit.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

Kirk said their entire pilot base (all 20-25K of them by 2029) was going to be 50/50. The clip was edited to avoid any discussion about it being a training school and only included when CEO said the entire pilot class would be 50/50. Kirk thought this was talking about all 20K pilots at United and not the 400-500 that annually will go through the school.

The school was just a small portion of the pilot base of United

May please ask if you could post the full quote or video.

I’ve tried different ways of searching and I’m not finding that.

 

[jp1]

No, they said they want their training program to be 50%, not all pilots in the program pass and meet the standards. Some airlines even encourage children of former pilots to join. Encouraging more women and POC to pursue a career isn’t lowering qualifications

I think that was the premise of what he was saying. If you go from a training class of 19% of a certain demographic to a goal of 50% immediately, then the question of if a standard/qualification has been lowered has to come up.

 

[Smokey123]

I think that was the premise of what he was saying. If you go from a training class of 19% of a certain demographic to a goal of 50% immediately, then the question of if a standard/qualification has been lowered has to come up.

It can come into question but that doesn’t make it a true statement. In fact standards were much lower when black people were barred from being pilots

 

[Smokey123]

I think people are not claiming that it involved race but that it wasn’t racist. There is a difference.

Prejudice is an opinion not based off reason or logic. Saying something Prejudice is a form of racism. Implying a black person is less qualified because “standards are lower for blacks” is not based in truth

 

[Smokey123]

CK said that people should be hired based off merit and not race. DEI promotes race instead of merit.

Can you provide an example of airlines hiring pilots on race? Or lowering standards for blacks like people on here said?

 

[jp1]

It can come into question but that doesn’t make it a true statement. In fact standards were much lower when black people were barred from being pilots

Again, I dont think Charlie was saying that it was true at all. He was saying that DEI type decisions like this make people have those questions.

 

[hndog609]

Yes except he didn’t mention females, Asians, etc. only blacks

1. Maybe, are you certain he never did?
2. Does any explanation (not just for this example mind you) require a full listing of all possible examples each time it's brought up?
3. Changes nothing on my original observation. The DEI argument CK made (whether one agrees or not) here was made relative to DEI involving, per UA's diversity goals, being "women and people of color." I think arguments that solely center on the one example being "black" is a bit disingenuous wrt CK's DEI observations. (again, whether one agrees with CK's DEI take or not)

 

[Smokey123]

Again, I dont think Charlie was saying that it was true at all. He was saying that DEI type decisions like this make people have those questions

If you question something about someone that is not based on truth is that not prejudice?

 

[jp1]

Prejudice is an opinion not based off reason or logic. Saying something Prejudice is a form of racism. Implying a black person is less qualified because “standards are lower for blacks” is not based in truth

He didn't say that a black person was less qualified. I think that is the part you are missing. He implied that he wanted the best pilot, regardless of the race/sex.

 

[Smokey123]

1. Maybe, are you certain he never did?
2. Does any explanation (not just for this example mind you) require a full listing of all possible examples each time it's brought up?
3. Changes nothing on my original observation. The DEI argument CK made (whether one agrees or not) here was made relative to DEI involving, per UA's diversity goals, being "women and people of color." I think arguments that solely center on the one example being "black" is a bit disingenuous wrt CK's DEI observations. (again, whether one agrees with CK's DEI take or not)

I listened to the episode when it first came out, I’m almost positive he didn’t. He actually went on to say he wants a cookie cutter pilot not laquesha James

The problem is his argument was based on truth, he mislead the people he was talking to

 

[LouderVol]

Prejudice is an opinion not based off reason or logic. Saying something Prejudice is a form of racism. Implying a black person is less qualified because “standards are lower for blacks” is not based in truth

prejudice is based on the underlying logic of something different and unknown is not to be trusted. its literally a survival mechanism. its as logical and reasonable as it gets.

its the same reason that many women says they would rather come across a random bear in the woods, rather than a random man.

there a lot of survival "tools" that have been forgotten the "why" of after we have assigned more civilized explanations to them.

 

[Smokey123]

He didn't say that a black person was less qualified. I think that is the part you are missing. He implied that he wanted the best pilot, regardless of the race/sex.

Questioning if someone is less qualified based off race and using a (false) reason is implying that though