Charlie Kirk Shot and killed

[NashVol11]

If the statement by the airline is never made I don't ask the question, I assume its the best guy or gal for the job. If the airline says they want to prioritize white pilots id have a similar problem. The issue isn't the race it's prioritizing based on race. You are conflating two separate things and calling them one.

You are explaining the reasons behind the racist statement, or bigoted if you prefer, which does not make the statement any less racist or bigoted. The "why" doesn't change whether or not it's racist, just gives context for said racism

 

[NashVol11]

There absolutely is. We are all bigots. Racism is bigotry on steroids with a superiority complex.

One could argue that most or all of us are somewhat racist, as well, and Avenue Q actually does that. The second sentence above sounds like a made-up definition

 

[KB5252]

Is it OK to extrapolate this to every other AA airline pilot that has been working for a carrier that has been in the 2-3% AA range for a decade plus?

It's not ok at all, the airline should have never insinuated anything other than they prioritize the best person for the job. As I've said over an over you take two candidates with equal aptitude and competency, if you want to give the minority priority based on past exclusion I have no problem with that, it's a choice your making for your company . Your race should neither count for or against you.

 

[KB5252]

You are explaining the reasons behind the racist statement, or bigoted if you prefer, which does not make the statement any less racist or bigoted. The "why" doesn't change whether or not it's racist, just gives context for said racism

you couldn't be more incorrect, but we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[jp1]

“I’m sorry if I see a black pilot I’m going to be like boy I hope he’s qualified” It’s questioning his skill based off race. You can try spinning it however you want it’s intellectually dishonest to say otherwise

Skill. In the quote he even goes on to say “that’s not who I am and I don’t wanna think this way” further clarifying his comments were not who he was.

Thank you for answering the question. He said numerous times that he wanted people to be judged based on merit not their skin color. Its not being intellectually dishonest because he clarified his position as to why he made the statement. He wasn't being racist.

 

[NashVol11]

you couldn't be more incorrect, but we'll just agree to disagree.

Right back at ya, there are plenty of places for you to learn what racism is

 

[Smokey123]

I think assuming and wondering/asking the question are two different things. No assumptions are made.

For example 6 months after 9/11 I boarded a flight and there were two obviously middle eastern men on it, and I sat there with my internal dialogue. Surely they were just men traveling like me ........but the mind asks the questions it asks.

If I had boarded an airline flight 6 months after this diversity announcement and I saw an AA pilot I my mind might wonder. But surely he's an ex air force pilot overly qualified........ But the mind asks the questions it asks. It's a defense mechanism, most intellectually honestly called bigotry, an unfortunate defense mechanism, most often called racism in ignorance.

You’re right assumption may not best word usage. Questioning his skill based off race, similar but different. I don’t think it’s inherently “bad”, I think we all have done it to a certain extent that’s kind of why I think it’s hilarious people are so persistent his comment isnt about race.

You asked questions because of their race, some might call it racist, prejudice or bigoted. IMO it’s semantics but it doesn’t make the person a racist. I do think there’s a difference

If I see a white man lined up at cornerback I’m gonna question if he’s gonna get cooked all game. It’s a question based off race, some might even say a racist comment. It’s the same principle

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

It's not ok at all, the airline should have never insinuated anything other than they prioritize the best person for the job. As I've said over an over you take two candidates with equal aptitude and competency, if you want to give the minority priority based on past exclusion I have no problem with that, it's a choice your making for your company . Your race should neither count for or against you.

I just hate painting every AA pilot nationwide with a broad brush because of what one company has stated as a long term goal.....

 

[Smokey123]

Thank you for answering the question. He said numerous times that he wanted people to be judged based on merit not their skin color. Its not being intellectually dishonest because he clarified his position as to why he made the statement. He wasn't being racist.

Yes he did say that, he also went on to say his comments about the black pilots is not him or what he actually believes. That implies his comments did not reflect his beliefs, right? Meaning his comment was based off skin and not merit. Whether it was actually racist isn’t my point, my point is saying it had nothing to do with race is just simply not true

He even went onto say something along the lines of “I want a cooker cutter pilot not someone with the name Laqueesha James”

 

[NashVol11]

Questioning his skill based off race, similar but different. I don’t think it’s inherently “bad”, I think we all have done it to a certain extent that’s kind of why I think it’s hilarious people are so persistent his comment isnt about race.

It is funny to me that people are okay with saying that he was "questioning someone's skill based off of race" but have a completely different reaction when one says that's racism, IMO we are essentially saying the same thing

 

[n_huffhines]

My mistake on that. Care to explain?

.

There are all kinds of reasons to be skeptical that your pilot is a great pilot. Every pilot thinks he's an above-average pilot, but the harsh reality is somebody's gotta be the bottom 10% and whether they're white or black or whatever, they rarely, rarely, ever crash planes. So yeah, to look at your black pilot and be afraid at the 0.000017% chance that there will be a fatal crash is 100% ignorant and racist.

 

[jp1]

Yes he did say that, he also went on to say his comments about the black pilots is not him or what he actually believes. That implies his comments did not reflect his beliefs, right? Meaning his comment was based off skin and not merit. Whether it was actually racist isn’t my point, my point is saying it had nothing to do with race is just simply not true

He even went onto say something along the lines of “I want a cooker cutter pilot not someone with the name Laqueesha James”

Sure the conversation was regarding race, and discussing DEI. By saying that DEI would make you question if someone was hired for their competence or hired based on their race/sex, is not being racist. He explained exactly that, thats why he said thats not who I am.

 

[KB5252]

You’re right assumption may not best word usage. Questioning his skill based off race, similar but different. I don’t think it’s inherently “bad”, I think we all have done it to a certain extent that’s kind of why I think it’s hilarious people are so persistent his comment isnt about race.

You asked questions because of their race, some might call it racist, prejudice or bigoted. IMO it’s semantics but it doesn’t make the person a racist. I do think there’s a difference

If I see a white man lined up at cornerback I’m gonna question if he’s gonna get cooked all game. It’s a question based off race, some might even say a racist comment. It’s the same principle

But that comment about the white corner is not a racist comment. It's imperative we define things properly and in context. If we do not we water down that term, cheapen it.

I'm my scenario the question about competency isn't related directly to the pilots race, it's directed at and as a result of the actions of the airline. I dont question competency without their actions.

Racist-a person who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

 

[NashVol11]

Sure the conversation was regarding race, and discussing DEI. By saying that DEI would make you question if someone was hired for their competence or hired based on their race/sex, is not being racist. He explained exactly that, thats why he said thats not who I am.

The fact that he had to say "that's not who I am" shows that even he realized that the words he was saying were racist. Otherwise, what is the "that"? What is "not who he is"?

 

[Smokey123]

It is funny to me that people are okay with saying that he was "questioning someone's skill based off of race" but have a completely different reaction when one says that's racism, IMO we are essentially saying the same thing

It is the same. I go back and forth on racist, it’s a big word that carries a lot of history I do think people get labeled it far too often. So I see where it’s coming from but I also don’t know what other word takes its place for things like this

 

[NashVol11]

But that comment about the white corner is not a racist comment. It's imperative we define things properly and in context. If we do not we water down that term, cheapen it.

I'm my scenario the question about competency isn't related directly to the pilots race, it's directed at and as a result of the actions of the airline. I dont question competency without their actions.

Racist-a person who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

And with just one simple change, "Racism - prejudice or antagonism toward people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group."

See that word "prejudice"? Like pre-judging that a given Black pilot, Black doctor, Black lawyer might not be qualified? I agree, I would love to define things properly

 

[jp1]

The fact that he had to say "that's not who I am" shows that even he realized that the words he was saying were racist. Otherwise, what is the "that"? What is "not who he is"?

No he said it because he realized what some people would try to turn it into, even though he qualified his position. He was exactly right.

 

[NashVol11]

It is the same. I go back and forth on racist, it’s a big word that carries a lot of history I do think people get labeled it far too often. So I see where it’s coming from but I also don’t know what other word takes its place for things like this

I agree, I think the word is loaded enough that people jump to the worst assumptions when they see it. I guess ideally for me we would be able to get past that rather than having to come up with a new word, but it is what it is

 

[KB5252]

I just hate painting every AA pilot nationwide with a broad brush because of what one company has stated as a long term goal.....

I do too, it's why I hate the way they handled their initiative.

 

[OHvol40]

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified.'" isn't lacking context lol. Same with blaming the deaths of little girls at Camp Mystic on a "DEI fire chief" that IIRC was hundreds of miles away

If you find yourself constantly searching for qualification, or “context” to explain somebody’s words, maybe you should consider that the content IS the context, and the words you’re trying to explain away should be take at face value. In short, CK said many bigoted things, and that IS the context.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

If you take a look at the numbers for United, their DEI program isnt about as much as hiring diversity as it is packaging existing long term hiring into a pretty PC bow..

The plan for United was to train and hire 250 non white males esch year for a decade (Half of 5,000 for a decade). Between retirements, pilots leaving, and new routes, United averages close to 2K hires per year. Somewhere around 15% of pilots are not white males. 15% of 2,000 is roughly 250-300 per year. Crazy how that math works, right?

@KB5252 - My thoughts on their "initiative"

 

[KB5252]

And with just one simple change, "Racism - prejudice or antagonism toward people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group."

See that word "prejudice"? Like pre-judging that a given Black pilot might not be qualified? I agree, I would love to define things properly

Yes but I'm not judging him because he's a black man....or woman. That's what you are failing to grasp

 

[Smokey123]

Sure the conversation was regarding race, and discussing DEI. By saying that DEI would make you question if someone was hired for their competence or hired based on their race/sex, is not being racist. He explained exactly that, thats why he said thats not who I am.

It may not be “racist” but it is a comment/question based off race. He even clarified that a few days before he was shot when he was on megyn Kelly. He was asked about it he said “DEI causes you look through a hyper racial lenses”. I’m not agreeing with DEI, or disagreeing with Charlie. I’m saying it’s wrong to say it’s not a comment about race and it’s about skill. And then to call others names (not necessarily you) because they said it was a racist comment seems insane to me

 

[NashVol11]

Yes but I'm not judging him because he's a black man....or woman. That's what you are failing to grasp

But you are. When you have one set of judgments for one race and another set for another race, at a certain point "it's not because they're Black" is semantics and the result is the same. If they weren't Black, those judgments would not exist, so how is it not?

 

[Smokey123]

But that comment about the white corner is not a racist comment. It's imperative we define things properly and in context. If we do not we water down that term, cheapen it.

I'm my scenario the question about competency isn't related directly to the pilots race, it's directed at and as a result of the actions of the airline. I dont question competency without their actions.

Racist-a person who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

Would you consider it to be a prejudice comment? Like what word would you use to define if? I do agree we have to define and use words correctly

Yours may not be related to race, but Charlie’s was imo