Too much ice

#401
#401
LouderVol said:
incarceration =/= criminality.

slight difference but important. Especially considering some authorities going out of their way to NOT jail illegals.
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The entire study comes from 14 years of Texas data and a year of Georgia data. They are the only states that've been tracking this stuff.

I would say you are ignoring the key finding that legal immigrants make spectacular members of the community.

Legalize immigration.
 
#402
#402
n_huffhines said:
The entire study comes from 14 years of Texas data and a year of Georgia data. They are the only states that've been tracking this stuff.

I would say you are ignoring the key finding that legal immigrants make spectacular members of the community.

Legalize immigration.
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It is legal to immigrate to the US. After almost a decade our Aussie friends finally were approved for their green card.
 
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#403
#403
n_huffhines said:
The entire study comes from 14 years of Texas data and a year of Georgia data. They are the only states that've been tracking this stuff.

I would say you are ignoring the key finding that legal immigrants make spectacular members of the community.

Legalize immigration.
Click to expand...
there is a legal method to enter the country. what you are actually saying is to legalize SOME people breaking/ignoring the law. The much better argument would be to revise the immigration system to make the legal process easier. that way everyone would be happy. just making it legal for anyone to come into this country under whatever means they happen to have/use is not fixing the problem.

you knock on my door, I open it and let you in = legal.
same "you" don't knock on my door, and you let yourself in = not legal.
I let you in under set parameters, and you overstay, especially after being told to leave = not legal.
 
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#404
#404
NashVol11 said:
Several people have died in ICE custody, that has nothing to do with "interfering with a LEO"
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You're omitting some important information here, such as while they were in ICE custody, an anti-ICE protestor who was armed, shot and killed multiple in custody.
 
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#405
#405
jvol1 said:
I'm circling back to this because it's a prime example of how the laws are being enforced too harshly. This guy had been in the country for close to 30 years, competed in track for a us college, obtained multiple degrees from us colleges, and obtained a high paying job as a professional. It's a case where the system should've repaired his paperwork deficiency instead of arresting him.
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#406
#406
LouderVol said:
there is a legal method to enter the country. what you are actually saying is to legalize SOME people breaking/ignoring the law. The much better argument would be to revise the immigration system to make the legal process easier. that way everyone would be happy. just making it legal for anyone to come into this country under whatever means they happen to have/use is not fixing the problem.

you knock on my door, I open it and let you in = legal.
same "you" don't knock on my door, and you let yourself in = not legal.
I let you in under set parameters, and you overstay, especially after being told to leave = not legal.
Click to expand...

How about something in between the completely stupid current system and not doing anything at all?

You're getting pedantic about the idea that they are all criminals because they are here illegally. That's obviously aside from the point. One of the beauties of America is we are over-criminalized. I promise you, you and I have both committed crimes, too. We probably commit dozens every year. We all have. This is America. That's why the incarceration rate is the only way to look at it.
 
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#407
#407
n_huffhines said:
How about something in between the completely stupid current system and not doing anything at all?

You're getting pedantic about the idea that they are all criminals because they are here illegally. That's obviously aside from the point. One of the beauties of America is we are over-criminalized. I promise you, you and I have both committed crimes, too. We probably commit dozens every year. We all have. This is America. That's why the incarceration rate is the only way to look at it.
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Another dumb take with even dumber excuses to excuse criminal behavior. You should self report to local law enforcement or go to Mexico to avoid prosecution.
 
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#408
#408
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#409
#409
#410
#410
NashVol11 said:
Nope. Many have died seemingly due to conditions/treatment

www.theguardian.com

Ice detainees death toll reaches 16 amid concerns over ‘horrendous’ conditions

Rising toll worries activists as mass detention in US increases after Trump returned to White House in January
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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First, this article compares Biden detainees death numbers and those under Trump administration. That’s apples to oranges.

And not one explanation given as to the cause of these deaths. Was it from lack of or refusal of adequate medical care? Administrators say that’s not the case. Was it because of underlying previous health conditions? Possibly.

Finally, 16 deaths total out of 60,000 in custody.
those number speak for themselves.
 
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#412
#412
#415
#415
ETV said:
First, this article compares Biden detainees death numbers and those under Trump administration. That’s apples to oranges.

And not one explanation given as to the cause of these deaths. Was it from lack of or refusal of adequate medical care? Administrators say that’s not the case. Was it because of underlying previous health conditions? Possibly.

Finally, 16 deaths total out of 60,000 in custody.
those number speak for themselves.
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By the time you are making excuses (citing the admin, laughably) for why people keep dying in ICE custody, you have made my point for me
NashVol11 said:
Lmao, those ICE agents have committed a lot more violence than all of the protesting students combined
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#416
#416
n_huffhines said:
How about something in between the completely stupid current system and not doing anything at all?

You're getting pedantic about the idea that they are all criminals because they are here illegally. That's obviously aside from the point. One of the beauties of America is we are over-criminalized. I promise you, you and I have both committed crimes, too. We probably commit dozens every year. We all have. This is America. That's why the incarceration rate is the only way to look at it.
Click to expand...
to the bolded, you mean the part right before what you bolded?

this isn't like speeding or jay walking like you want to act as far as criminal effort goes. If I walk my butt into *enter central or south american country here* and jay walk and get arrested, no one would say THEY should change THEIR laws. everyone would shrug and say "should have followed the local laws".

you aren't proposing a middle ground. you are proposing one of the extremes, while the other side isn't proposing the opposite extreme. pretty much very MAGA on this board has made the distinction between legal and illegal immigration; you ignore that distinction because it kills your straw man.

I think both sides would be happier if the immigration system got reworked and made easier, while also banning any benefit from being here illegally. both sides only focus on the half of the argument they care about.

we have seen the previous compromises fail because they continue to ignore the other half. things like DREAMER were supposed to fix the issue of what to do with those who have been here for so long. but it didn't actually ensure they were on the path to legal citizenship, it just carved out a loophole.
 
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#417
#417
NashVol11 said:
By the time you are making excuses (citing the admin, laughably) for why people keep dying in ICE custody, you have made my point for me
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Excuses? Seriously, I said more or less, where’s the data about those that passed. No further explanation given. No details, just the guardian wanting everyone to assume they passed due to excessive brutality from ICE agents.

If you have 60000 and subtract 16, that’s .027% of 60k total.

Your point was made long before I joined the conversation, as you were screeching about .027%.
 
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#419
#419
LouderVol said:
to the bolded, you mean the part right before what you bolded?

this isn't like speeding or jay walking like you want to act as far as criminal effort goes. If I walk my butt into *enter central or south american country here* and jay walk and get arrested, no one would say THEY should change THEIR laws. everyone would shrug and say "should have followed the local laws".

you aren't proposing a middle ground. you are proposing one of the extremes, while the other side isn't proposing the opposite extreme. pretty much very MAGA on this board has made the distinction between legal and illegal immigration; you ignore that distinction because it kills your straw man.

I think both sides would be happier if the immigration system got reworked and made easier, while also banning any benefit from being here illegally. both sides only focus on the half of the argument they care about.

we have seen the previous compromises fail because they continue to ignore the other half. things like DREAMER were supposed to fix the issue of what to do with those who have been here for so long. but it didn't actually ensure they were on the path to legal citizenship, it just carved out a loophole.
Click to expand...

What do you think I'm proposing?

We are a far cry from the original point, from which you've been deflecting with a slew of arguments that don't address the point. When I show you that it's data from Texas, you pivot to the next deflection. Just accept the original point and stop inventing side convos to disagree with me about.

For the last 14 years, Illegals in Texas have been incarcerated at half the rate of Americans, and the rate of legal immigrants is 1/5. That's it. Accept it.
 
#420
#420
ETV said:
Excuses? Seriously, I said more or less, where’s the data about those that passed. No further explanation given. No details, just the guardian wanting everyone to assume they passed due to excessive brutality from ICE agents.

If you have 60000 and subtract 16, that’s .027% of 60k total.

Your point was made long before I joined the conversation, as you were screeching about .027%.
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"Excuses?" *Proceeds to make more excuses and minimize deaths in service of a terrible argument*

Very funny, I'll give you that
 
#421
#421
n_huffhines said:
What do you think I'm proposing?

We are a far cry from the original point, from which you've been deflecting with a slew of arguments that don't address the point. When I show you that it's data from Texas, you pivot to the next deflection. Just accept the original point and stop inventing side convos to disagree with me about.

For the last 14 years, Illegals in Texas have been incarcerated at half the rate of Americans, and the rate of legal immigrants is 1/5. That's it. Accept it.
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I addressed that in my first response. the data is slanted. SOME locations have been given them a free pass. not every AG in the state is going to be a MAGA boi waiting to lasso up some dark skinned people.

I know Georgia gave free passes. we have had a couple catch-and-release murders here. Ibarra (Laken Riley) had been arrested in Texas, NY, and Georgia, and released each time, before the murder. he wouldn't have shown up in your stats until the murder charge.

Congress literally passed a law, in 2025 based on that murder and situation, so that criminal illegals would have to be detained instead of being released, and thus not showing up in the stats. pretty easy to see how the data isn't going to be trust worthy, from any state, with the reality out there.

I moved on to other points because you didn't address my point.
 
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#422
#422
NashVol11 said:
"Excuses?" *Proceeds to make more excuses and minimize deaths in service of a terrible argument*

Very funny, I'll give you that
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Can you answer my previous question? Did those in custody die at the hands of federal agents or natural causes? I’m guessing if it were due to abusive behavior, the number would have been considerably higher.
 
#424
#424
ETV said:
No counter. Just deflection.

Charlie was right about the majority of those on the left.
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Very funny thing to say when you are the one minimizing and deflecting. ICE committing more violence than any of the student protestors is an objective fact, you went from "nuh uh they were provoked" to "nuh uh it was a shooter" to now talking just to talk
 
#425
#425
NashVol11 said:
Very funny thing to say when you are the one minimizing and deflecting. ICE committing more violence than any of the student protestors is an objective fact, you went from "nuh uh they were provoked" to "nuh uh it was a shooter" to now talking just to talk
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ICE responding with violent actions due to behavior of those interfering with detainment and / or arrests. Either let the individuals perform the duties of their job and stay out of the way or FAFO.
 
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