Too much ice

#276
#276
n_huffhines said:
My history of holding LEO's to a high standard doesn't indicate that I think the work is shameful. We need law enforcement and it's a tough job that I would never want to do. I'm proud of my Uncle and cousin who were LEO's.
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Amen!
 
#277
#277
n_huffhines said:
No, what??? LOL

I don't think you understand what masking LEO's does to public trust. I don't think you understand how much public trust matters to law and order.

I think you would understand if they were violating the rights of people you cared about, like say right-wing religious anti-government types.
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Oh, I do.

I'm neither, but I'm both. Circumstances matter.
 
#280
#280
n_huffhines said:
No, what??? LOL

I don't think you understand what masking LEO's does to public trust. I don't think you understand how much public trust matters to law and order.

I think you would understand if they were violating the rights of people you cared about, like say right-wing religious anti-government types.
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You are claiming that ICE is "disappearing" people and should expose themselves and their families to potential assassination at a time that they're actually being targeted. You are the one that's said that anything done to an ICE agent is ethical, I do believe. You are the one fomenting distrust of law enforcement while calling us anti-government.

Really?
 
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#281
#281
KB5252 said:
It absolutely does offer protection from doxxing.

It isn't dox proof in a similar manner that wearing a bullet proof vest doesn't make you bullet proof but it offers protection.
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lets spin this argument on its head. because I think you guys are caught in a white lab coat fallacy.

a criminal robs a bank while wearing the best mask ever, but in the neck cut out of his wife beater he has his name and social security number tattoo'd to him.
assuming there is video, or eye witnesses:
Can the cops still find him? yes.
Does him wearing a mask hinder them from finding him? no. he is just an idiot who thinks a mask is going to protect his identity while displaying other identifiable markers.
 
#282
#282
CobbVol said:
By thinking illegals will just domicile in one place;
By thinking that the sanctuary cities will "come around";
By thinking we should ignore the centers where the illegals are located in the name of efficiency.

Looks good on the ole white board but crashes and burns in the reality room.
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how many guys do you think are out there rounding up illegals? 100,000? 1,000,000?

lets just say there are a million of them out there. there are 330 odd million civilians. there are 3.5 million square miles of US territory.

One agent would be responsible for going thru about 330 people spread out over 3.5 square miles. how efficient does that sound? to me that sounds like a disaster.

now what if I told you there are actually 20,000 ICE agents. each agent is responsible for going thru 16,500 people, and covering 175 square miles. that sounds even more unreasonable to me.

and you think I am the one working in a "white paper" by saying we should focus the efforts, instead of trying to cover everything all at once?
 
#285
#285
OrangeTsar said:
Actually most libertarians would support EITHER side as long as they promised to legalize drugs.
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Yet another misrepresentation of the libertarian stance. It’s about government infringement on personal liberties and choices. Give up the big government party authoritarian imposed morality stances and try it sometime.
 
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#289
#289
NorthDallas40 said:
Yet another misrepresentation of the libertarian stance. It’s about government infringement on personal liberties and choices. Give up the big government party authoritarian imposed morality stances and try it sometime.
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Oh I once flirted with libertarianism. But it seemed like all they ever wanted to talk about was how much less dangerous weed was compared to alcohol.
Then when one started arguing that even fentanyl should be legalized, I decided that I had had enough.
Once someone begins to argue against ANY restrictions on personal behavior; they are on the road to anarchy.
 
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#290
#290
Orange_Crush said:
If the mainstream left starts painting them as nazi gestapo members as radical leftist terror cells start trying to assassinate them, then...Sure.
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It may have been brought up here somewhere already so SIAP but I ran across a quote that stuck in my head.

"They don't kill us because we're Nazis...they call us Nazis so they can kill us."

There's always been rhetoric in politics, by which I mean pretty much always, but when even the upper end of the politicians and media will relentlessly cloak the opposition in literally the worst descriptions that they can summon it's essentially impossible not to expect bad outcomes.
 
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#293
#293
hndog609 said:
It may have been brought up here somewhere already so SIAP but I ran across a quote that stuck in my head.

"They don't kill us because we're Nazis...they call us Nazis so they can kill us."

There's always been rhetoric in politics, by which I mean pretty much always, but when even the upper end of the politicians and media will relentlessly cloak the opposition in literally the worst descriptions that they can summon it's essentially impossible not to expect bad outcomes.
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the left have been called Communists, thats at least as bad as fascists.
speaking of the term fascists many Rs like to turn it around and say "no you guys are the actual fascists, you know nazis were socialists"
how many on the right have said that illegal immigrants don't have any rights in this country?

its not a one sided thing. both sides say the same crap.
 
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#294
#294
LouderVol said:
lets spin this argument on its head. because I think you guys are caught in a white lab coat fallacy.

a criminal robs a bank while wearing the best mask ever, but in the neck cut out of his wife beater he has his name and social security number tattoo'd to him.
assuming there is video, or eye witnesses:
Can the cops still find him? yes.
Does him wearing a mask hinder them from finding him? no. he is just an idiot who thinks a mask is going to protect his identity while displaying other identifiable markers.
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If your doxxed only where you live is known, yeah someone could use that info to then make a speculative ID on you.

But if they have your picture they can positively ID you, that picture can then be used to target you in your city/neighborhood etc.

Think about the company you work for. Your information is coded, then stored behind multiple layers so as better to protect you.

The whole purpose of this unmask ICE is to fight their enforcement of immigration policy under the current administration, that's it. A small portion truly fear any mashed agent but I didn't see the outrage at swat etc. If they truly wanted accountability they would demand video recording of every interaction and review of reported wrongdoing.

This is a red herring, the issue isn't the masks, the issue is the enforcement. The biggest rabble rousers on the issue are the biggest beneficiaries of illegal immigrants in their cities. We all know why they are doing this, or at least they should.
 
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#295
#295
OrangeTsar said:
Oh I once flirted with libertarianism. But it seemed like all they ever wanted to talk about was how much less dangerous weed was compared to alcohol.
Then when one started arguing that even fentanyl should be legalized, I decided that I had had enough.
Once someone begins to argue against ANY restrictions on personal behavior; they are on the road to anarchy.
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I have no desire to impose any morality requirements on anyone else that’s their business. They just need to deal with any consequences of their choices.

And on the bolded I couldn’t disagree more. Personal liberty /= lack of societal structure. It basically just means the government should butt out.
 
#296
#296
Peradox1K said:
Realistic

Realistically we're in libertarian right.
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“We’re”? I took the political compass test and yes I was libertarian right. Stronger libertarian emphasis than right however.

If by “we’re” you mean the GOP they are 100% authoritarian right. Just as the Dems are 100% authoritarian left. Based on the inane ramblings out of each party we see daily I don’t see anyone being able to change my mind on that either.
 
#297
#297
LouderVol said:
the left have been called Communists, thats at least as bad as fascists.
speaking of the term fascists many Rs like to turn it around and say "no you guys are the actual fascists, you know nazis were socialists"
how many on the right have said that illegal immigrants don't have any rights in this country?

its not a one sided thing. both sides say the same crap.
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I dare you to show where I made my observation one sided.

Now having said that the only recent outright high profile political assassination I can think of is CK and there's been nothing but a deluge of Nazi/racist/fascist not only continuing from the Left but leveled (sometimes with outright glee) at the dead guy himself. It's a terrible course to go on and yes, I mean from anywhere on the political spectrum.
 
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#298
#298
hndog609 said:
I dare you to show where I made my observation one sided.

Now having said that the only outright high profile political assassination I can think of is CK and there's been nothing but a deluge of Nazi/racist/fascist not only continuing from the Left but leveled (sometimes with outright glee) at the dead guy himself. It's a terrible course to go on and yes, I mean from anywhere on the political spectrum.
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I didn’t infer that he implied you were playing sides. More just amplifying your statement.
 
#299
#299
NorthDallas40 said:
I have no desire to impose any morality requirements on anyone else that’s their business. They just need to deal with any consequences of their choices.

And on the bolded I couldn’t disagree more. Personal liberty /= lack of societal structure. It basically just means the government should butt out.
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I understand exactly where you are coming from because like I said; I was a prime candidate for libertarianism. I am a strict 10th Amendment guy.
But many libertarians I have encountered take it too far.
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Law by definition is the imposition of community morality on the individual. The goal of course is to not regulate behavior that effects only the individual doing said behavior. But when it comes to drug legalization; it harms a whole lot more than just one individual.
That is where I just couldn’t get on board. Then there are the absolute loons The libertarians keep nominating for President. The party is just so „non serious“ at least in my exposure to it.
But I will not fault someone for considering themselves one.
 
#300
#300
OrangeTsar said:
I understand exactly where you are coming from because like I said; I was a prime candidate for libertarianism. I am a strict 10th Amendment guy.
But many libertarians I have encountered take it too far.
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Law by definition is the imposition of community morality on the individual. The goal of course is to not regulate behavior that effects only the individual doing said behavior. But when it comes to drug legalization; it harms a whole lot more than just one individual.
That is where I just couldn’t get on board. Then there are the absolute loons The libertarians keep nominating for President. The party is just so „non serious“ at least in my exposure to it.
But I will not fault someone for considering themselves one.
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Honestly I don’t think you get it at all. I see the general case as laws should protect the rights of the individual from infringement by other individuals and the government. That’s it. The goal is to get everyone to leave each other alone.
 
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