Sharia Law: Coming to a Neighborhood Near You.

[Rickyvol77]

Did you ever answer @Dobbs 4 Heisman on your source(s) for those?

• Adil, Hajjah Amina (2002). Muhammad, the Messenger of Islam: His Life & Prophecy
• Ahmad, Anis (2009). "Dīn". In Esposito, John L. (ed.). The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Islamic World. Oxford University Press.
• Ahmed, Shahab (2017). Before Orthodoxy: The Satanic Verses in Early Islam. Harvard University Press. ISBN 978-0-674-04742-6.
• Al-Bukhari, Muhammed Ibn Ismaiel (1997). The Translation of the Meanings of Sahih Al-Bukhari: Arabic-English. Translated by Khan, Muhammad M. Dar-us-Salam.
• Al-Tabari, Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Jarir (1997). The History of al-Ṭabarī. Vol. 8: The Victory of Islam: Muhammad at Medina A.D. 626-630/A.H. 5-8.
• Al-Tabari, Muhammad ibn Jarir (1987). The History of al-Tabari. Vol. 6: Muhammad at Mecca. State University of New York Press.
• Anthony, Sean W. (2020). Muhammad and the Empires of Faith: The Making of the Prophet of Islam. University of California Press
• Ardic, Nurullah (2012). Islam and the Politics of Secularism. Routledge
• Arjomand, Said Amir (2022). Messianism and Sociopolitical Revolution in Medieval Islam. University of California Press.
• Armstrong, Karen (2007). Muhammad: A Prophet for Our Time. Harper Collins.
• Bearman, Peri; Bianquis, Thierry; Bosworth, C. Edmund; Donzel, E. J. van, eds. (2002). "Encyclopaedia of Islam, Volume XI (V-Z)". Encyclopaedia of Islam. Vol. XI (V–Z).
• Beeston, A. F. L. (1983). Arabic Literature to the End of the Umayyad Period. Cambridge University Press.
• Bennett, Clinton (1998). In search of Muhammad. Continuum.
• Bogle, Emory C. (1998). Islam: Origin and Belief. University of Texas Press. ISBN 978-0-292-70862-4.
• Borup, Jørn; Fibiger, Marianne Qvortrup; Kühle, Lene (2019). Religious Diversity in Asia. Brill. ISBN 978-90-04-41581-2.
• Brockopp, Jonathan E. (2010). The Cambridge Companion to Muhammad. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-1-139-82838-3.
• Brown, Daniel W. (2003). A New Introduction to Islam. Wiley. ISBN 978-0-631-21604-9.
• Brown, Jonathan A. C. (2011). Muhammad: A Very Short Introduction. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-955928-2.
• Çakmak, Cenap (2017). Islam: a worldwide encyclopedia. Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO. ISBN 978-1610692175.
• Cheikh, Nadia Maria El (2015). Women, Islam, and Abbasid Identity. Harvard University Press. ISBN 978-0-674-73636-8.
• Cimino, Richard (December 2005). ""No God in Common": American Evangelical Discourse on Islam after 9/11". Review of Religious Research. 47 (2): 162–174.
• Cole, W. Owen (1996). Six World Faiths. A&C Black. ISBN 978-0-8264-4964-1.
• Conrad, Lawrence I. (1987). "Abraha and Muhammad: some observations apropos of chronology and literary topoi in the early Arabic historical tradition".
• Curtis, Michael (2009). Orientalism and Islam: European Thinkers on Oriental Despotism in the Middle East and India. New York: Cambridge University Press.
• Deming, David (2014). Science and Technology in World History. Vol. 2: Early Christianity, the Rise of Islam and the Middle Ages. McFarland.
• Dibble, Roy (1926). Mohammed. Viking.
• Donner, Fred (1998). Narratives of Islamic Origins: The Beginnings of Islamic Historical Writing. Darwins.
• El-Azhari, Taef Kamal (2019). "Two Wives at the Same Time: Sawda and 'Aisha". Queens, Eunuchs and Concubines in Islamic History, 661-1257. Edinburgh University Press.
• Esposito, John (1998). Islam: The Straight Path (3rd ed.). Oxford University Press.
• Esposito, John (2002). What Everyone Needs to Know About Islam. Oxford University Press.
• Esposito, John, ed. (2003). The Oxford Dictionary of Islam. Oxford University Press. p. 198.
• Esposito, John (2011). What everyone needs to know about Islam (2nd ed.). Oxford University Press.
• Fontaine, P. F. M. (2022). Imperialism in Medieval History I: Dualism in Byzantine History 476–638 and Dualism in Islam 572–732. Brill.
• Forward, Martin (1997). Muhammad: A Short Biography. Oneworld. ISBN 978-1-85168-131-0.
• Gabriel, Richard A. (2007). Muhammad: Islam's First Great General. University of Oklahoma Press.
• Gibb, Hamilton Alexander Rosskeen; Lewis, Brian; Donzel, Emeri J. van; Bosworth, Clifford Edmund (1986). The Encyclopaedia of Islam. Vol. 1. Brill.
• Gil, Moshe (1997). A History of Palestine, 634–1099. Cambridge University Press.
• Glubb, Sir John Bagot (2001). The Life and Times of Muhammad. Cooper Square.
• Goddard, Hugh (2000). "The First Age of Christian-Muslim Interaction (c. 830/215)". A History of Christian-Muslim Relations. Edinburgh University Press. pp. 34–41.
• Goldman, Elizabeth (1995). Believers: spiritual leaders of the world. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-508240-1.
• Gordon, Matthew (2005). The Rise of Islam. Greenwood. ISBN 978-0-313-32522-9.
• Gottheil, Richard; Montgomery, Mary W.; Grimme, Hubert (1906). "Mohammed". Jewish Encyclopedia. Kopelman Foundation.
• Hazleton, Lesley (2014). The First Muslim: The Story of Muhammad. Penguin. ISBN 978-1-59463-230-3.
• Hodgson, Marshall G. S. (2009). The Venture of Islam. Vol. 1: The Classical Age of Islam. University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0-226-34686-1.
• Holt, P. M.; Lambton, Ann K. S.; Lewis, Bernard (1977). The Cambridge History of Islam (Paperback ed.). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-29135-4.
• Holt, P. M.; Lambton, Ann K. S.; Lewis, Bernard (1977). The Cambridge History of Islam. Vol. 1A, The Central Islamic Lands from Pre-Islamic Times to the First World War. Cambridge University Press.
• Hourani, Albert; Ruthven, Malise (2003). A History of the Arab Peoples (Revised ed.). Belknap. ISBN 978-0-674-01017-8.
• Howard-Johnston, James (2010). Witnesses to a World Crisis: Historians and Histories of the Middle East in the Seventh Century. Oxford University Press.
• Humphreys, R. Stephen (1991). Islamic History: A Framework for Inquiry (Revised ed.). Princeton University Press.
• Ibn Hisham, ʻAbd al-Malik; Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad (1978). The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Isḥāq's Sīrat Rasūl Allāh. Oxford University Press.
• Ibn Kathir; Gassick, Trevor Le (2000). The Life of the Prophet Muhammad. Vol. 1. Translated by Gassick, Trevor Le. Reading: Garnet.
• Ibn Kathīr, Ismāʻīl ibn ʻUmar (1998). The Life of the Prophet Muḥammad: A Translation of Al-Sīra Al-Nabawiyya. Center for Muslim Contribution to Civilization.
• Irving, Washington (1904). Mahomet and His Successors. P. F. Collier.
• Johnson, Scott Fitzgerald (2015). The Oxford Handbook of Late Antiquity. Oxford University Press.
• Katz, Steven (2022). The Cambridge Companion to Antisemitism. Cambridge University Press.
• Kister, M. J. (2022). Society and Religion from Jahiliyya to Islam. Routledge.
• Klein, F. A. (1906). The Religion of Islám. K. Paul, Trench, Trübner.
• Kloppenborg, Ria; Hanegraaff, Wouter J. (2018). Female Stereotypes in Religious Traditions. Brill.
• Lapidus, Ira (2002). A History of Islamic Societies (2nd ed.). Cambridge University Press.
• Lapidus, Ira M. (2012). Islamic Societies to the Nineteenth Century: A Global History. Cambridge University Press.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Did you ever answer @Dobbs 4 Heisman on your source(s) for those?

Lassner, Jacob (2012). Jews, Christians, and the Abode of Islam: Modern Scholarship, Medieval Realities. University of Chicago Press
Lewis, Bernard (1993). Islam and the West. Oxford University Press.
Lewis, Bernard (2002) [1993]. The Arabs in History. Oxford University Press.
Lewis, David Levering (2009). God's Crucible: Islam and the Making of Europe, 570-1215. W. W. Norton. ISBN 978-0-393-06790-3.
Lindemann, Albert S.; Levy, Richard S. (2010). Antisemitism: A History. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-923503-2.
Madelung, Wilferd (1997). The Succession to Muhammad: A Study of the Early Caliphate. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-64696-3.
Margoliouth, David S. (2010). Mohammed and the Rise of Islam. Cosimo. ISBN 978-1-61640-503-8.
Miller, Judith (2011). God Has Ninety-Nine Names: Reporting from a Militant Middle East. Simon & Schuster.
Muir, William (1861). The Life of Mahomet and History of Islam to the Era of the Hegira: With Introductory Chapters on the Original Sources for the Biography of Mahomet and on the Pre-Islamite History of Arabia. Smith, Elder&Company, 65, Cornhill.
Muranyi, Miklos (1998). The Life of Muhammad. Ashgate.
Morgan, Diane (2009). Essential Islam: A Comprehensive Guide to Belief and Practice.
Muesse, Mark W. (2018). Four Wise Men. Lutterworth.
Murray, Alexander (2011). Suicide in the Middle Ages. Vol. 2: The Curse on Self-Murder. Oxford University Press.
Nagel, Tilman (2020). Muhammad's Mission: Religion, Politics, and Power at the Birth of Islam. Walter de Gruyter.
Netton, Ian Richard (2013). Encyclopaedia of Islam. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-135-17960-1.
Nigosian, Solomon A. (2004). Islam: Its History, Teaching, and Practices. Indiana University Press. ISBN 978-0-253-11074-9.
Peters, F. E. (1994). Muhammad and the Origins of Islam. State University of New York Press. ISBN 978-1-4384-1597-0.
Peters, Francis Edward (2003). Islam: A Guide for Jews and Christians. Princeton University Press.
Peters, Francis Edward (2003b). The Monotheists: Jews, Christians, and Muslims in Conflict and Competition. Vol. 1. Princeton University Press.
Peters, Francis Edward (2010). Jesus and Muhammad: Parallel Tracks, Parallel Lives. Oxford University Press.
Peterson, Daniel (2007). Muhammad, Prophet of God. Wm. B. Eerdmans.
Phipps, William E. (2016). Muhammad and Jesus: A Comparison of the Prophets and Their Teachings. Bloomsbury.
Powers, David S. (2014). Zayd. University of Pennsylvania Press.
Quinn, Frederick (2008). "The Prophet as Antichrist and Arab Lucifer (Early Times to 1600)". The Sum of All Heresies: The Image of Islam in Western Thought. New York: Oxford University Press. pp. 17Ramadan, Tariq (2007). In the Footsteps of the Prophet: Lessons from the Life of Muhammad. Oxford University Press.
Rāshid, Maʿmar ibn (2015). The Expeditions: An Early Biography of Muḥammad. NYU Press.
Reeves, Minou (2003). Muhammad in Europe: A Thousand Years of Western Myth-Making. New York University Press. pp. 6–7.
Reynolds, Gabriel Said (2023). The Emergence of Islam: Classical Traditions in Contemporary Perspective. Augsburg Fortress.
Robin, Christian J. (2012). "Arabia and Ethiopia". In The Oxford Handbook of Late Antiquity. Oxford University Press.
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Roggema, Barbara (2008). The Legend of Sergius Baḥīrā: Eastern Christian Apologetics and Apocalyptic in Response to Islam. Brill.
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[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Not going to re-write, but no don't know many. How that affects what experience I may have can be viewed in mine and Persian's exchanges. I did not grow up in a time where you just ran into many. And have never lived in large metros where the majority reside. And I live out of town where my neighbor's on either side are a half mile journey. I do meet quite a few college age because we do have a local university that is highly academic and attracts more Saudi's than any other, and they love to come in and bowl. So, I'm also not ignorant to the fact that a good deal are just regular people like me. Props to him for some very nice back and forth. I've also never been one to hate people for not being me.

That's fine. I don't blame you. When you don't know people you are bound to believe what the media says. And the media has done a good job demonizing Muslims for 30+ years now. Its understandable you wouldn't know they're mostly normal people.

I remember I had a roommate in college who was white. And when he told his grandparents that he was living with a black guy they were horrified. They thought I would kill him in his sleep. Because they never met anyone black growing up in Montana and the only black people they ever saw was on TV. And back in the day black people weren't exactly portrayed well by the media.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Muslims do not believe Jesus was the messiah the way Christians do, i.e. the divine son of God.

Christians don't hate Muslims. I think most non-Muslims are at the very least wary of a religion founded and spread through warfare, that has an unbroken chain of violence, including war between its own sects, and that allows for wildly different interpretations of its theology. Not to mention the dozen or so terrorist groups that operate under the banner of Islam.

Many Christians feel a kinship to Israel and the Jewish people because of their role as God's chosen people in the Tanakh and being the lineage of Christ.

Messiah means leader and/or savior. And in Islam Jesus is considered the savior of mankind. He is the one who will return on the day of judgment to defeat the Anti-Christ (dajjal in Islam). Not Muhammad. So while you are correct Muslims don't believe Jesus is the "son of God" or God himself. They do believe that he is the savior of mankind from the Anti-Christ.

With regard to the Jews being the chosen people. I'm pretty sure that ended after they rejected Jesus. I'm pretty sure mainstream Christian theology says that the people who followed Christ are the ones who then became God's chosen people not those who rejected Christ.

Christians didn't like Jews for most of their history. This love affair with Jews by Evangelical Christians is a relatively new phenomenon. Go back a century and there was no kinship by Christians with Jews. The Jews were viewed as the ones who killed Jesus and despised for it.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

There's a catch 22 on the muslim version. You say they believe Jesus was the Messiah, yet they adhere to a book written by a sinful prophet. If they truly believe and accept Jesus as the Messiah, why the Quran? Why not the Bible that came from the God that sent the Messiah?

That's a very good question. Now modern Muslims are just sectarian so they'll say things like the Bible was corrupted to justify why they follow the Quran instead. However, the Quran never says the Bible or Torah were corrupted. In fact the Quran explicitly endorses the Gospel and Torah as equally valid to the Quran. There's even a story in the Quran where a group of Jews come to the Prophet Muhammad asking him to resolve a dispute. God tells Muhammad in the Quran "Why are they coming to you? Did I not give them the Torah to judge themselves by?". Basically saying that Jews and Christians are obligated to follow their own religious books that came from the same God who gave Muhammad the Quran.

Now the question becomes why did the Quran have to be sent? Well God says the reason the Quran exists is because the Arabs had not yet gotten a messenger. And that God sends messengers to every nation. So Muhammad was the messenger for the Arabs who were mostly pagans at that time. So in a way the Quran endorses itself as a religion just for Arabs despite in modern times Muslims claiming Islam is a universal religion for all peoples.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Why do you have an opinion on something that you’ve never read? On top of that you clearly don’t know what the Talmud is, or intentionally being disingenuous

So unless I've read something I can't have an opinion on it? I've never read the Declaration of Independence. Does that mean I can't think its the document where the United States declared its independence from Great Britain?

I'm not the only one whose talked about how the Talmud treats Jesus. I'm simply repeating what others who have studied those Jewish texts say. And by the way the Jews rejecting Jesus as the Messiah isn't breaking news. If they didn't reject him they would be Christians.

 

[85SugarVol]

Why do you have an opinion on something that you’ve never read? On top of that you clearly don’t know what the Talmud is, or intentionally being disingenuous

Bro, he’s seen a lot of YouTube videos.

 

[Smokey123]

So unless I've read something I can't have an opinion on it? I've never read the Declaration of Independence. Does that mean I can't think its the document where the United States declared its independence from Great Britain?

I'm not the only one whose talked about how the Talmud treats Jesus. I'm simply repeating what others who have studied those Jewish texts say. And by the way the Jews rejecting Jesus as the Messiah isn't breaking news. If they didn't reject him they would be Christians.

Thanks for telling everyone you don’t know the difference between a subjective opinion and an objective fact

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

• Adil, Hajjah Amina (2002). Muhammad, the Messenger of Islam: His Life & Prophecy
• Ahmad, Anis (2009). "Dīn". In Esposito, John L. (ed.). The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Islamic World. Oxford University Press.
• Ahmed, Shahab (2017). Before Orthodoxy: The Satanic Verses in Early Islam. Harvard University Press. ISBN 978-0-674-04742-6.
• Al-Bukhari, Muhammed Ibn Ismaiel (1997). The Translation of the Meanings of Sahih Al-Bukhari: Arabic-English. Translated by Khan, Muhammad M. Dar-us-Salam.
• Al-Tabari, Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Jarir (1997). The History of al-Ṭabarī. Vol. 8: The Victory of Islam: Muhammad at Medina A.D. 626-630/A.H. 5-8.
• Al-Tabari, Muhammad ibn Jarir (1987). The History of al-Tabari. Vol. 6: Muhammad at Mecca. State University of New York Press.
• Anthony, Sean W. (2020). Muhammad and the Empires of Faith: The Making of the Prophet of Islam. University of California Press
• Ardic, Nurullah (2012). Islam and the Politics of Secularism. Routledge
• Arjomand, Said Amir (2022). Messianism and Sociopolitical Revolution in Medieval Islam. University of California Press.
• Armstrong, Karen (2007). Muhammad: A Prophet for Our Time. Harper Collins.
• Bearman, Peri; Bianquis, Thierry; Bosworth, C. Edmund; Donzel, E. J. van, eds. (2002). "Encyclopaedia of Islam, Volume XI (V-Z)". Encyclopaedia of Islam. Vol. XI (V–Z).
• Beeston, A. F. L. (1983). Arabic Literature to the End of the Umayyad Period. Cambridge University Press.
• Bennett, Clinton (1998). In search of Muhammad. Continuum.
• Bogle, Emory C. (1998). Islam: Origin and Belief. University of Texas Press. ISBN 978-0-292-70862-4.
• Borup, Jørn; Fibiger, Marianne Qvortrup; Kühle, Lene (2019). Religious Diversity in Asia. Brill. ISBN 978-90-04-41581-2.
• Brockopp, Jonathan E. (2010). The Cambridge Companion to Muhammad. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-1-139-82838-3.
• Brown, Daniel W. (2003). A New Introduction to Islam. Wiley. ISBN 978-0-631-21604-9.
• Brown, Jonathan A. C. (2011). Muhammad: A Very Short Introduction. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-955928-2.
• Çakmak, Cenap (2017). Islam: a worldwide encyclopedia. Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO. ISBN 978-1610692175.
• Cheikh, Nadia Maria El (2015). Women, Islam, and Abbasid Identity. Harvard University Press. ISBN 978-0-674-73636-8.
• Cimino, Richard (December 2005). ""No God in Common": American Evangelical Discourse on Islam after 9/11". Review of Religious Research. 47 (2): 162–174.
• Cole, W. Owen (1996). Six World Faiths. A&C Black. ISBN 978-0-8264-4964-1.
• Conrad, Lawrence I. (1987). "Abraha and Muhammad: some observations apropos of chronology and literary topoi in the early Arabic historical tradition".
• Curtis, Michael (2009). Orientalism and Islam: European Thinkers on Oriental Despotism in the Middle East and India. New York: Cambridge University Press.
• Deming, David (2014). Science and Technology in World History. Vol. 2: Early Christianity, the Rise of Islam and the Middle Ages. McFarland.
• Dibble, Roy (1926). Mohammed. Viking.
• Donner, Fred (1998). Narratives of Islamic Origins: The Beginnings of Islamic Historical Writing. Darwins.
• El-Azhari, Taef Kamal (2019). "Two Wives at the Same Time: Sawda and 'Aisha". Queens, Eunuchs and Concubines in Islamic History, 661-1257. Edinburgh University Press.
• Esposito, John (1998). Islam: The Straight Path (3rd ed.). Oxford University Press.
• Esposito, John (2002). What Everyone Needs to Know About Islam. Oxford University Press.
• Esposito, John, ed. (2003). The Oxford Dictionary of Islam. Oxford University Press. p. 198.
• Esposito, John (2011). What everyone needs to know about Islam (2nd ed.). Oxford University Press.
• Fontaine, P. F. M. (2022). Imperialism in Medieval History I: Dualism in Byzantine History 476–638 and Dualism in Islam 572–732. Brill.
• Forward, Martin (1997). Muhammad: A Short Biography. Oneworld. ISBN 978-1-85168-131-0.
• Gabriel, Richard A. (2007). Muhammad: Islam's First Great General. University of Oklahoma Press.
• Gibb, Hamilton Alexander Rosskeen; Lewis, Brian; Donzel, Emeri J. van; Bosworth, Clifford Edmund (1986). The Encyclopaedia of Islam. Vol. 1. Brill.
• Gil, Moshe (1997). A History of Palestine, 634–1099. Cambridge University Press.
• Glubb, Sir John Bagot (2001). The Life and Times of Muhammad. Cooper Square.
• Goddard, Hugh (2000). "The First Age of Christian-Muslim Interaction (c. 830/215)". A History of Christian-Muslim Relations. Edinburgh University Press. pp. 34–41.
• Goldman, Elizabeth (1995). Believers: spiritual leaders of the world. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-508240-1.
• Gordon, Matthew (2005). The Rise of Islam. Greenwood. ISBN 978-0-313-32522-9.
• Gottheil, Richard; Montgomery, Mary W.; Grimme, Hubert (1906). "Mohammed". Jewish Encyclopedia. Kopelman Foundation.
• Hazleton, Lesley (2014). The First Muslim: The Story of Muhammad. Penguin. ISBN 978-1-59463-230-3.
• Hodgson, Marshall G. S. (2009). The Venture of Islam. Vol. 1: The Classical Age of Islam. University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0-226-34686-1.
• Holt, P. M.; Lambton, Ann K. S.; Lewis, Bernard (1977). The Cambridge History of Islam (Paperback ed.). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-29135-4.
• Holt, P. M.; Lambton, Ann K. S.; Lewis, Bernard (1977). The Cambridge History of Islam. Vol. 1A, The Central Islamic Lands from Pre-Islamic Times to the First World War. Cambridge University Press.
• Hourani, Albert; Ruthven, Malise (2003). A History of the Arab Peoples (Revised ed.). Belknap. ISBN 978-0-674-01017-8.
• Howard-Johnston, James (2010). Witnesses to a World Crisis: Historians and Histories of the Middle East in the Seventh Century. Oxford University Press.
• Humphreys, R. Stephen (1991). Islamic History: A Framework for Inquiry (Revised ed.). Princeton University Press.
• Ibn Hisham, ʻAbd al-Malik; Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad (1978). The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Isḥāq's Sīrat Rasūl Allāh. Oxford University Press.
• Ibn Kathir; Gassick, Trevor Le (2000). The Life of the Prophet Muhammad. Vol. 1. Translated by Gassick, Trevor Le. Reading: Garnet.
• Ibn Kathīr, Ismāʻīl ibn ʻUmar (1998). The Life of the Prophet Muḥammad: A Translation of Al-Sīra Al-Nabawiyya. Center for Muslim Contribution to Civilization.
• Irving, Washington (1904). Mahomet and His Successors. P. F. Collier.
• Johnson, Scott Fitzgerald (2015). The Oxford Handbook of Late Antiquity. Oxford University Press.
• Katz, Steven (2022). The Cambridge Companion to Antisemitism. Cambridge University Press.
• Kister, M. J. (2022). Society and Religion from Jahiliyya to Islam. Routledge.
• Klein, F. A. (1906). The Religion of Islám. K. Paul, Trench, Trübner.
• Kloppenborg, Ria; Hanegraaff, Wouter J. (2018). Female Stereotypes in Religious Traditions. Brill.
• Lapidus, Ira (2002). A History of Islamic Societies (2nd ed.). Cambridge University Press.
• Lapidus, Ira M. (2012). Islamic Societies to the Nineteenth Century: A Global History. Cambridge University Press.

Do you know what primary source materials are? Most of these sources are from people who lived a thousand years after Muhammad lived.

In history when someone asks you for the source its typically in the form of what are your primary sources. Not what did someone else have to say about things they never saw or experienced.

So once again what primary source materials do you have to support any of those claims?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Thanks for telling everyone you don’t know the difference between a subjective opinion and a objective fact

The Talmud saying Jesus is boiling in excrement isn't a subjective opinion. That's what they have written in their books.

Gittin 57a:4

Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling...

www.sefaria.org

 

[Rickyvol77]

Do you know what primary source materials are? Most of these sources are from people who lived a thousand years after Muhammad lived.

In history when someone asks you for the source its typically in the form of what are your primary sources. Not what did someone else have to say about things they never saw or experienced.

So once again what primary source materials do you have to support any of those claims?

So you are saying that dozens of actual Muslim scholars who studied every piece of text and tradition of the ancient Islamic world, and that have been verified through Christian, Jewish, Greek and Arabic sources who experienced these events are all wrong, and made it up, even things Muhammed's followers and family members and the victims all stated?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Thanks for telling everyone you don’t know the difference between a subjective opinion and an objective fact

He's not the sharpest, but then again when you lie in the gutter and ignore actual historians to excuse evil behavior, what do you expect? He's the same as those gullible people who believe Gaza bollywood type videos..like that one guy who's been "murdered by the IDF" like 200 times now

 

[Smokey123]

The Talmud saying Jesus is boiling in excrement isn't a subjective opinion. That's what they have written in their books.

Gittin 57a:4

Onkelos said to him: What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling...

www.sefaria.org

There’s no “Jesus” in the Talmud. There’s Yeshu which was a very common name and multiple different stories of Yeshu in the Talmud and plenty don’t line up to Jesus of the Bible.
That specific story is aggadah, which is essentially folklore that not even the strictest Jews accept as true. It’s essentially a parable, unless you think a rabi that was born 40 years after Jesus was raising 3 men from the grave. Also Jews don’t believe in hell (at least in the way Christian’s do)
You said the Talmud was very clear on this (wrong) and Jews believe it. A very large portion of Jews, especially secular ones don’t care about the Talmud let alone read it

 

[Smokey123]

It’s funny how the Talmud theories originated from the far right anti-semites. Since when are they fluent in Hebrew and Aramaic?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

So you are saying that dozens of actual Muslim scholars who studied every piece of text and tradition of the ancient Islamic world, and that have been verified through Christian, Jewish, Greek and Arabic sources who experienced these events are all wrong, and made it up, even things Muhammed's followers and family members and the victims all stated?

If you actually knew what the primary sources were then you would know the answer to that question.

Here's my challenge to you. Go look up the dates of when Muhammad was said to have lived. Then I want you to look up the earliest Islamic sources on him. Compare those dates and tell me what you make of it.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

A very large portion of Jews, especially secular ones don’t care about the Talmud let alone read it

Couldn't the same be said for Muslims? Yet I don't see folks excusing violent rhetoric in the Quran or hadiths. Saying believers don't follow certain parts of a religion doesn't make that part of the religion disappear. Its still there in their books whether they like it or not.

 

[Rickyvol77]

If you actually knew what the primary sources were then you would know the answer to that question.

Here's my challenge to you. Go look up the dates of when Muhammad was said to have lived. Then I want you to look up the earliest Islamic sources on him. Compare those dates and tell me what you make of it.

Executed Nadr/Uqba along with about 50 others after the Battle of Badr which he raided a village for goods, and held other 70 villagers for ransom
- Encouraged Muslims to fight and kill the Meccans, Something Jesus would never have done
- Ordered raids on tons of Meccan caravans, to loot goods, kill people and take prisoners
- Ordered a seige and blockade of Jewish camps, and ordered the murder of Ka'B ibn al-Ashraf under the guise of needing food
- Decided after one of his schizophrenic episodes with Satan, to allow Muslim men to "own" up to 4 wives
- Stole more Jewish land from villages after claiming "he saw a vision where someone dropped a boulder on his head" thus the muslims needed to take the fertile lands
- Invaded the Banu Mustaliq taking all their animals and food, and enslaved 200 women as sex slaves who were raped
- Invaded the Banu Quranyza and beheaded 600-900 of men and enslaved all the women and children; Before the battle Muhammad personally gestured that if they didn't surrender he would slit their throats
- Marrying and having sexual relations with a 6 year old
- Ordered the execution of village leader Umm Qirfa
- Invaded the Jewish city of Khaybar; again executed male prisoners and used the women as sex slaves
- Tortured the chief of the Jews to get treasure and then executed him, and took his wife for his own sex slave
- Invaded Mecca and and forced their residents to convert to Islam or be killed; again killed hundreds, took their wives and children as slaves
- Invaded Syria and forced paid extortion under penalty of death



Here's my challenge to you...you try to refute each of these points with actual facts

Hint (You can't)

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Executed Nadr/Uqba along with about 50 others after the Battle of Badr which he raided a village for goods, and held other 70 villagers for ransom
- Encouraged Muslims to fight and kill the Meccans, Something Jesus would never have done
- Ordered raids on tons of Meccan caravans, to loot goods, kill people and take prisoners
- Ordered a seige and blockade of Jewish camps, and ordered the murder of Ka'B ibn al-Ashraf under the guise of needing food
- Decided after one of his schizophrenic episodes with Satan, to allow Muslim men to "own" up to 4 wives
- Stole more Jewish land from villages after claiming "he saw a vision where someone dropped a boulder on his head" thus the muslims needed to take the fertile lands
- Invaded the Banu Mustaliq taking all their animals and food, and enslaved 200 women as sex slaves who were raped
- Invaded the Banu Quranyza and beheaded 600-900 of men and enslaved all the women and children; Before the battle Muhammad personally gestured that if they didn't surrender he would slit their throats
- Marrying and having sexual relations with a 6 year old
- Ordered the execution of village leader Umm Qirfa
- Invaded the Jewish city of Khaybar; again executed male prisoners and used the women as sex slaves
- Tortured the chief of the Jews to get treasure and then executed him, and took his wife for his own sex slave
- Invaded Mecca and and forced their residents to convert to Islam or be killed; again killed hundreds, took their wives and children as slaves
- Invaded Syria and forced paid extortion under penalty of death



Here's my challenge to you...you try to refute each of these points with actual facts

Hint (You can't)

Okay. I guess its time to educate you. The Prophet Muhammad is claimed to have lived from 570 AD to 632 AD. And yet we have zero contemporary accounts of his life from that time period. The first biography on the Prophet Muhammad was allegedly written by Ibn Ishaq. Ibn Ishaq - Wikipedia

Ibn Ishaq died in 768 AD. Over 130 years after Prophet Muhammad died. That means he never knew the Prophet nor anyone who knew him. His alleged biography came from oral traditions that were passed down. And if you know anything about oral traditions they're not exactly considered historically reliable. Now I kept using the word "alleged" here because no manuscripts from Ibn Ishaq have ever survived. The first biography to actually survive was written by another guy named Ibn Hisham who died in 833 AD. Ibn Hisham - Wikipedia

That means the first biography of the Prophet Muhammad that anyone ever wrote came out nearly 200 years after his death. Now I ask you would such a document be considered reliable? Imagine if the first biography on George Washington was written in 1999. 200 years after his death in 1799. And that before that time nobody ever wrote down anything about him. Would such a document be considered trustworthy?

Everything about Prophet Muhammad that people claim to know comes from documents that are alleged to have been written at a minimum 200 years after his death. Its why some historians argue he might not have even existed in the manner Muslims believe. But that he was instead a fabrication created by the Abbasid Caliphate to consolidate power in their vast kingdom by creating a unifying religion for their followers different from Christianity and Judaism.

 

[EasternVol]

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So which sources go with which point?
Did you read all those and extract the list yourself? Why not just say where you got the list?

 

[GVF]

That's a very good question. Now modern Muslims are just sectarian so they'll say things like the Bible was corrupted to justify why they follow the Quran instead. However, the Quran never says the Bible or Torah were corrupted. In fact the Quran explicitly endorses the Gospel and Torah as equally valid to the Quran. There's even a story in the Quran where a group of Jews come to the Prophet Muhammad asking him to resolve a dispute. God tells Muhammad in the Quran "Why are they coming to you? Did I not give them the Torah to judge themselves by?". Basically saying that Jews and Christians are obligated to follow their own religious books that came from the same God who gave Muhammad the Quran.

Now the question becomes why did the Quran have to be sent? Well God says the reason the Quran exists is because the Arabs had not yet gotten a messenger. And that God sends messengers to every nation. So Muhammad was the messenger for the Arabs who were mostly pagans at that time. So in a way the Quran endorses itself as a religion just for Arabs despite in modern times Muslims claiming Islam is a universal religion for all peoples.

Actually they did get a messenger. Jesus Christ. Through Jesus, God in fact did say that what once was for the Jews (Mosaical Law) is now for all people (the Gentiles- anyone other than Jews). Through Jesus' death and ressurection, God's Word was hte end all for all people that would accept it. I would like to see where you say God says the Quran was necessary and why it exists. The Law of God is a perfected law through the death and ressurection. It needs no other endorsement.

 

[EasternVol]

Absolute disgrace that is in the United States of America.

What's disgraceful about it exactly?

 

[EasternVol]

Is there a point?

 

[Smokey123]

Couldn't the same be said for Muslims? Yet I don't see folks excusing violent rhetoric in the Quran or hadiths. Saying believers don't follow certain parts of a religion doesn't make that part of the religion disappear. Its still there in their books whether they like it or not.

You just keep showing more and more you have no idea wtf the Talmud is. You can’t be a Muslim and not follow the Quran. Hadith is supposed to be a moral guidance on how to live your life. But yes, people take verses out of context in both of those to fit their agenda.

The Talmud is a combination of Folklore, Philosophy, Jewish history, Halakha, debates and opinions from thousands of rabis. You’re supposed to study it for years for a better understanding of the laws, and traditions.

You said Jews believe in an eternal hell so I’m not sure why I’m even wasting time with you

 

[GVF]

That's fine. I don't blame you. When you don't know people you are bound to believe what the media says. And the media has done a good job demonizing Muslims for 30+ years now. Its understandable you wouldn't know they're mostly normal people.

I remember I had a roommate in college who was white. And when he told his grandparents that he was living with a black guy they were horrified. They thought I would kill him in his sleep. Because they never met anyone black growing up in Montana and the only black people they ever saw was on TV. And back in the day black people weren't exactly portrayed well by the media.

Media has nothing to do with it. I grew up in a town that was around 50/50 white/black. I was raised in a church that was attended by both. One of those lifelong friends and I joke that we didn't know we were supposed to be different. Point being, different doesn't bother me as you portay it for me. I'm old enough to know what's in today's media is not always "exact". Just look at hte left leaning regurgitated trash on here about Kirk. I'm also old enough to know how to read history for myself from multiple outlets. I don't live in fear. I don't treat the people different than me as different. That's not my purpose in life. I will always be christian to the people around me who are and who are not. It's the only option God gave me if I am trying to live that life as he'd like.

Fact is, there will always be exceptions to all rules about different peoples. There are absolutely Godly and wonderful people from all races and colors. There are also well-meaning and misguided ones. African christianity has a tendancy to be very literal with scripture and persucute gays as we speak. Then there's the evil bands within the groups and sub groups. And discerning which is which is not an exact science. Real life, though, we all know there are sleepers in this country tht were sent to be normal. It's historically the way. I may never experience it first hand. I may never meet anyone less than cordial and normal, and haven't yet. The majority may be peaceful, but you and I both know they do exist and they are here, and you won't know till it it happens. And that also applies to the McVeys of the world. Sleepers are not a byproduct of just one group. I just happen to think ignoring that the constitutionally given american way is under constant threat and attack from many forces is irresponsible. It should be protected for all who seek it.

 

[GVF]

If so then there should be a lot of reports of it, which I don't see. Didn't a fairly famous Protestant minister preach God Dxxx America' not that long ago? Are Protestants a menace?

Do you mean by allowing the calls to prayer or accommodating prayer in school?

It's good that relations are better there now. I'm a little older and remember integration in Virginia. Things went pretty well in my community. A few years later there was a lot more trouble integrating the kids from a town a few miles away who shifted to our HS. I'll have to check but I think the black community there still maintains their church so worship isn't really integrated. Several towns around the region had the reputation of sundown communities well into the 70's.

In my experience wandering around Sydney there are heavily Muslim areas but there aren't any no go zones. I can't speak on London except the one in Kentucky. I seriously doubt we'd ever have one in the US. Muslims are generally sociable and welcoming as long as no one's trying to antagonize, like just about everyone else.

Agreed on your later points. Except when was last time you've been to Sydney. I've never been. Just had some reels coming accross my feed of whites trying to go in those areas peacefully and local Aussie cops threatening that they'd be arrested for disrupting peace. One could also argue their intentions. I took it they were trying to show what was going on. It could also be isolated. The one thing that was obvious is that it was strictly a 'muslim' reatil area, except for the cop assigned to that area to ask the whotey why they were there. But, to be honest and fair, one needs to acknowledge the mass migrations to these large cities and the issues it has caused them.

First question about the protestant...I'm not sure who you are referencing or when it happened. More detail might jog the memory, so I'd be remiss to attempt to put more thought on it. But, as you have referenced it I know what my first thought would be at a high level.

The call to prayer reference...There are towns, up north, that have relaxed noise ordinances in order to allow calls to prayer in the public 5 times a day. This is integrating church and state for a specific group or religion, while at the same time saying christian prayer can't be allowed in schools or other places constitutionally. We have local governments cowtailing to one group and denying others. A religion of love would be able to maintain those daily prayers without demanding all others make room for them unequivocally. If these are those friendly normal neighbors that demand their religion be above our laws....just sayin'.