War in Ukraine

[LSU-SIU]

It's a simple question, which one of the people mentioned in the "coup" call, won the 2014 election?

Strange enough that a "coup" would end in an election in and of itself.

What has that got to do with anything the coup was later in the year? Why the U.S. involving themselves which you admitted you wanted, you just wish there was more of it. I believe you. Now dead people.

Not sure what your point is? This is what you wanted, you just wanted more of it.

 

[LSU-SIU]

This is definitely an enlightening window into how you think and view the world.

You are admitting that you wanted the U.S. to undermine the Russians, they were. You just wish they were doing more of it. Now dead people. You are getting exactly what you wanted, you just wish there was more dead people.

This isn't about me. I want to be on this side of the pond and want nothing to do with it.

 

[appvol]

This is definitely an enlightening window into how you think and view the world.

I bet you are annoying as hell to sit beside at a football. Always think you are right. Probably coaching the game in the stands complaining. I would also bet you watch jeopardy and argue with the TV when you get one wrong. Got articles in notes on your device to prove you are right. Everyone is already enlightened to how you view people

 

[BeardedVol]

What has that got to do with anything the coup was later in the year? Why the U.S. involving themselves which you admitted you wanted, you just wish there was more of it. I believe you. Now dead people.

Not sure what your point is? This is what you wanted, you just wanted more of it.

Are you sure you know what a "coup" actually entails?

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

A transcript of the alleged conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt discussing the crisis in Ukraine.

www.bbc.com

 

[LSU-SIU]

Are you sure you know what a "coup" actually entails?
View attachment 764954

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

A transcript of the alleged conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt discussing the crisis in Ukraine.

www.bbc.com

View attachment 764955

This is what you wanted, you got it, you just wish there was more of it. Posting stuff from the internet doesn't change that.

You wanted a war, you got it... you are just too chicken to actually do anything yourself. Its not complex, you wanted it.

 

[BeardedVol]

You are admitting that you wanted the U.S. to undermine the Russians, they were. You just wish they were doing more of it. Now dead people. You are getting exactly what you wanted, you just wish there was more dead people.

This isn't about me. I want to be on this side of the pond and want nothing to do with it.

I'm just trying to figure out who "punched Russia" in your terrible analogy.

Which probably doesn't matter since you seem to think that all that is required for retaliation in your made up scenario is a belief that one has been punched, rather than actually suffering a punch.

So bizarre.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I'm just trying to figure out who "punched Russia" in your terrible analogy.

Which probably doesn't matter since you seem to think that all that is required for retaliation in your made up scenario is a belief that one has been punched, rather than actually suffering a punch.

So bizarre.

No, its not bizarre, you don't want to hear any of it... its not complex. We all don't have to agree to every detail but obviously everything wasn't alright as you admitted the U.S. was trying to undermine the Russians, you just wanted more of it. Whether we believe the Russians were punched or not is not material, they believe it. Now people are dead.

You just wish there was more of it. So, there is bunch of dead people now, you apparently just think you can magically solve something, which you yourself seem to be promoting. That is the bizarre part, you wanted all this.

 

[BeardedVol]

This is what you wanted, you got it, you just wish there was more of it. Posting stuff from the internet doesn't change that.

You wanted a war, you got it... you are just too chicken to actually do anything yourself. Its not complex, you wanted it.

Crazy to try to pretend that the Ukrainian people had zero agency in protesting Yanukovych trying to sell them out to Russia.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Crazy to try to pretend that the Ukrainian people had zero agency in protesting Yanukovych trying to sell them out to Russia.

I never said that, did I? Heck, there are protest against the Orange man, so what? You wanted all this, why are you complaining to me about something you wanted, that is the bizarre part.

You got your wish, you just want more of your wishes to come true, now people are dead.

Tomorrow most likely the Ukrainians will be in even a worse place to negotiate.

 

[appvol]

 

[Delmar]

Yeah, no...

There's a WHOLE lot of blame to go around about who started it. Putin might have pulled the proverbial trigger, but the US, Russia, EU, Ukraine, NATO, the MIC, etc, etc, etc all have some part in this.

You can't place the blame on one person here at all.

Believe what you like. Last I checked, the guy who attacks a sovereign country first started the war. Others have a part in keeping it going but there is no question that Putin started it.

 

[BeardedVol]

No, its not bizarre, you don't want to hear any of it... its not complex. We all don't have to agree to every detail but obviously everything wasn't alright as you admitted the U.S. was trying to undermine the Russians, you just wanted more of it. Whether we believe the Russians were punched or not is not material, they believe it. Now people are dead.

You just wish there was more of it. So, there is bunch of dead people now, you apparently just think you can magically solve something, which you yourself seem to be promoting. That is the bizarre part, you wanted all this.

Lol who "undermined Russia" the US went out of its way trying to keep Yanukovych in power until he started shooting protesters.

The fact that you subscribe to the "Russia believes it's so it's real" mind set does explain your very warped view on actual documented events, but those views just aren't based in reality.

 

[Delmar]

NATO didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The US didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The EU didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.
The "MIC" didn't force Putin to invade Ukraine.

Putin chose to invade Ukraine.

Exactly

 

[LSU-SIU]

Lol who "undermined Russia" the US went out of its way trying to keep Yanukovych in power until he started shooting protesters.

The fact that you subscribe to the "Russia believes it's so it's real" mind set does explain your very warped view on actual documented events, but those views just aren't based in reality.

That is not relevant. We are not parties, you wanted the U.S. to undermine Russia. Whether you believe it or not is not material at this stage, the Russians believe it. And I agree with them, regardless if I agree - they believe it. They don't need your or my permission. FAFO Now people are dead.

 

[BeardedVol]

I never said that, did I? Heck, there are protest against the Orange man, so what? You wanted all this, why are you complaining to me about something you wanted, that is the bizarre part.

You got your wish, you just want more of your wishes to come true, now people are dead.

Tomorrow most likely the Ukrainians will be in even a worse place to negotiate.

No one is forcing Putin to continue killing Ukrainians. No one has ever forced him to so in the first place.

He could have not started killing them back in 2014, and he could have stopped at any point in the last 10 years.

 

[LSU-SIU]

No one is forcing Putin to continue killing Ukrainians. No one has ever forced him to so in the first place.

He could have not started killing them back in 2014, and he could have stopped at any point in the last 10 years.

This is mental illness. Nobody is forcing the Ukrainians to fight, try to join NATO for the last 20 years, or insert reason. Not material at this stage.

Now if you disagree, maybe you should be considering signing up, I support your position to self-eliminate.

You got what you wanted, but the end result is not going to work out.

 

[BeardedVol]

That is not relevant. We are not parties, you wanted the U.S. to undermine Russia. Whether you believe it or not is not material at this stage, the Russians believe it. And I agree with them, regardless if I agree - they believe it. They don't need your or my permission. FAFO Now people are dead.

This is honestly the dumbest justification for any act of violence that I've ever watched anyone try to make.

In your warped world view, any act of violence is justified as long as the perpetrator believes they are justified.

Like I said, it does explain a lot of your posts though.

 

[BeardedVol]

This is mental illness. Nobody is forcing the Ukrainians to fight, try to join NATO for the last 20 years, or insert reason. Not material at this stage.

Now if you disagree, maybe you should be considering signing up, I support your position to self-eliminate.

Lol what nation doesn't defend itself when invaded by another country?

BTW, NATO told Ukriane "no" back in 2008, 6 years before Putin invaded.

 

[LSU-SIU]

This is honestly the dumbest justification for any act of violence that I've ever watched anyone try to make.

In your warped world view, any act of violence is justified as long as the perpetrator believes they are justified.

Like I said, it does explain a lot of your posts though.

Hm. The U.S. killed either directly or indirectly 100,000s of people over a lie. That can be your opinion, if you feel differently you can sign up.

I don't believe you believe that.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Lol what nation doesn't defend itself when invaded by another country?

BTW, NATO told Ukriane "no" back in 2008, 6 years before Putin invaded.

That is beside the point - the Russians believe the agreement was breached, the Ukraine was attempting to join nato, and they needed to bring the internal war to an end in the East. Whether you agree or not is not material, you have elected to stay at home.

Nobody is asking you to agree, its immaterial at this stage, what is material is you wanted this. You just wish there was more of it. At the end of the day this is most likely not going to work out for the Ukraine and probably not Europe for obvious reasons.

The good guys always win, come back and in time you will see who that is.

 

[BeardedVol]

That is beside the point - the Russians believe the agreement was breached, the Ukraine was attempting to join nato, and they needed to bring the internal war to an end in the East. Whether you agree or not is not material, you have elected to stay at home.

Nobody is asking you to agree, its immaterial at this stage, what is material is you wanted this. You just wish there was more of it. At the end of the day this is most likely not going to work out for the Ukraine and probably not Europe for obvious reasons.

The good guys always win, come back and in time you will see who that is.

There it is again. Reality doesn't matter, only belief. Russia believed "x did or didn't happen", so regardless of reality, Russia was justified in responding by attacking Ukraine.

It's like you are (willfully) incapable of even entertaining the thought that Russia could use a misrepresentation, or an outright lie, as justification for visiting violence upon Ukraine.

Which is funny that you are so critical of the US, who could argue similar justification on any number of instances of military adventurism.

 

[Grand Vol]

Please elaborate for the people not named Bearded. I am very curious how NATO and the US would be to blame for Putin invading Ukraine.

I'll be more than happy to elaborate further when I'm not on mobile, but up front, they share the blame, not "are to blame" implying that Russia/Putin is absolved of any responsibility.

 

[LSU-SIU]

No, you are missing the point. That is your reality, but regardless it doesn't matter at this stage. I generally agree with them, but it that doesn't matter at this stage either.

Which is funny that you are so critical of the US, who could argue similar justification on any number of instances of military adventurism.

Because it was lie, which is why the U.S. lost.

You claimed imo this is what you wanted, you wanted more of it.... the only issue is the end result is not what you want or more like that is the most likely outcome.

The good guys will win.


Good guys.

Bad guys.

Bad guys.

Good guys.

Its really not that complex, time makes everything 20/20. The amount of good guys located in South and Central America are too numerous for me to show, Americans have no idea how many failed plots they have had down there ask George he made a pretty penny off quite a bit of it. Give it a little more time and we'll get to the end of Iraqi and Syria and the good guys will have the final victory lap.

I would probably say this guy is a good guy, although he lost personally - his side won and is the good guys. Matter of fact, the U.S. is actually paying them and doing their bombing for them now.

Good guy.

 

[Delmar]

“Let’s Make A Deal!” Where’s Monty Hall when you need him? The only way I see big concessions from Ukraine is if they just don’t have the desire or wherewithal to continue to fight. Don’t know if that’s the case or not. But somehow I doubt either is going to agree with what the other wants. The only way I Putin backing down is if he gets some concessions where he can ride into Moscow shirtless on his white horse looking like a hero.

Just a guess but here’s what I think happens.
- Everybody agrees to a meeting. Maybe with a truce, maybe not.
- Putin demands huge land concessions either before or during the meeting.
- Ukraine declines and the meeting either doesn’t happen or it breaks up quickly. (My understanding is that Putin already demanded one big section and Ukraine declined immediately.)
- Trump throws a hissy fit and blames Zelensky. And then Biden three more times.

 

[LSU-SIU]

“Let’s Make A Deal!” Where’s Monty Hall when you need him? The only way I see big concessions from Ukraine is if they just don’t have the desire or wherewithal to continue to fight. Don’t know if that’s the case or not. But somehow I doubt either is going to agree with what the other wants. The only way I Putin backing down is if he gets some concessions where he can ride into Moscow shirtless on his white horse looking like a hero.

Just a guess but here’s what I think happens.
- Everybody agrees to a meeting. Maybe with a truce, maybe not.
- Putin demands huge land concessions either before or during the meeting.
- Ukraine declines and the meeting either doesn’t happen or it breaks up quickly. (My understanding is that Putin already demanded one big section and Ukraine declined immediately.)
- Trump throws a hissy fit and blames Zelensky. And then Biden three more times.

When is someone going to address the Russians concerns? This seems to be the most important part, just saying.