War in Ukraine

#88,727
#88,727
BeardedVol said:
Please, enlighten me how the EU/NATO/US MIC were factors in Putin deciding to invade Ukraine in 2014, and escalate that invasion in 2022.

I mean, Putin himself has said that he wouldn't have invaded 'had Trump been president', right?
Click to expand...

Are you willing to be open minded, rationally discuss the matter and even change your mind if needed?

Nah, probably not
 
  • Like
Reactions: dalton_vol
#88,730
#88,730
lawgator1 said:
Possible. Many points to go.

Does the US put a contingent of troops in Ukraine, along with Europe? And does Ukraine give up some territory?
Click to expand...

I think the answer to the first one is no. I don't think we put anyone there. But then again, it could be something like the Balkans and IFOR in the 90s and early 2000s where you have NATO chipping in which brings in American troops.

But just unilateral assignment of a rotation of US forces? Doubtful. I think Trump believes (rightly so) that it's a European problem.

The second question about the territory is the tricky part. I could almost see it going to the UN for international observed elections to determine if there's any validity for the Donbas and other areas in dispute to be assigned to Russia. Ukraine is going to have a hard time giving them up and Russia will have a hard time giving them up after paying for them in blood.

I do think both sides are going to give and take a little bit. I think Ukraine does lose some territory (likely areas that were heavy with Russian populations to begin with) and Russia gives up a lot of the territory they gained during the fighting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: midnight orange
#88,732
#88,732
If he pulls this off and its lasting then he'll deserve many kudos. I think we are all hopeful, maybe guardedly optimistic even.
 
#88,733
#88,733
volbound1700 said:
Wow, I actually agree with a BearedVol post.
Click to expand...

Actually, from a factual standpoint he is correct, from a position of context of how reality works not so much. Hey, I hit you but you know what nobody is forcing you to hit me back. It makes little sense in the real world.
 
#88,734
#88,734
Grand Vol said:
I think the answer to the first one is no. I don't think we put anyone there. But then again, it could be something like the Balkans and IFOR in the 90s and early 2000s where you have NATO chipping in which brings in American troops.

But just unilateral assignment of a rotation of US forces? Doubtful. I think Trump believes (rightly so) that it's a European problem.

The second question about the territory is the tricky part. I could almost see it going to the UN for international observed elections to determine if there's any validity for the Donbas and other areas in dispute to be assigned to Russia. Ukraine is going to have a hard time giving them up and Russia will have a hard time giving them up after paying for them in blood.

I do think both sides are going to give and take a little bit. I think Ukraine does lose some territory (likely areas that were heavy with Russian populations to begin with) and Russia gives up a lot of the territory they gained during the fighting.
Click to expand...

But how does that address the issue of what Russia has stated was the purpose of the operation? I guess positions can change but the Russians have been pretty clear as to what needs to take place and it wasn't about land.
 
#88,735
#88,735
lawgator1 said:
If he pulls this off and its lasting then he'll deserve many kudos. I think we are all hopeful, maybe guardedly optimistic even.
Click to expand...
While I think Trump has overstated the multiple conflicts he has acted to mediate on this term the simple fact is he has had some pretty good success. If he actually does get both parties to agree to a durable peace agreement he absolutely should be considered for a Noble Peace Prize. In fact if he pulls off Ukraine one could argue any exclusion of him in the nomination process would be comical
 
#88,737
#88,737
LSU-SIU said:
Actually, from a factual standpoint he is correct, from a position of context of how reality works not so much. Hey, I hit you but you know what nobody is forcing you to hit me back. It makes little sense in the real world.
Click to expand...
i·ro·ny
/ˈīrənē/
noun
  1. the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.
    "“Don't go overboard with the gratitude,” he rejoined with heavy irony"
 
#88,738
#88,738
BeardedVol said:
Look at all those US politicians.
Click to expand...


I don't know what your point is, you are saying you wanted exactly what the U.S. did and you actually want more of it. You appear to be upset because the U.S. didn't do more evil. Well, this is the outcome - dead people.
 
#88,739
#88,739
Grand Vol said:
Nah, but you seem really open minded to discussing how a lot of factors could play into it.

Good job on keeping an open mind and discussion.
Click to expand...

Please elaborate for the people not named Bearded. I am very curious how NATO and the US would be to blame for Putin invading Ukraine.
 
#88,740
#88,740
LSU-SIU said:
Actually, from a factual standpoint he is correct, from a position of context of how reality works not so much. Hey, I hit you but you know what nobody is forcing you to hit me back. It makes little sense in the real world.
Click to expand...

In what "real world scenario" is it the expectation that a nation state doesn't respond to defend itself when attacked?
 
#88,741
#88,741
LSU-SIU said:
I don't know what your point is, you are saying you wanted exactly what the U.S. did and you actually want more of it. You appear to be upset because the U.S. didn't do more evil. Well, this is the outcome - dead people.
Click to expand...

Lol, so you really think those were US politicians in the video?

I guess I should have added blue font.
 
#88,743
#88,743
BeardedVol said:
In what "real world scenario" is it the expectation that a nation state doesn't respond to defend itself when attacked?
Click to expand...

Exactly. The Russians took that as a no go zone, you went and now dead people. You just don't think the Russians should be able to response, that is simply not how the world works.

You got what you wanted, now dead people, now you want more dead people. It really is that simple.
 
#88,744
#88,744
LSU-SIU said:
Exactly. The Russians took that as a no go zone, you went and now dead people. You just don't think the Russians should be able to response, that is simply not how the world works.

You got what you wanted, now dead people, now you want more dead people. It really is that simple.
Click to expand...
Lol, so who do you believe "punched Russia"?
 
#88,747
#88,747
BeardedVol said:
Lol, so who do you believe "punched Russia"?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter, they believe what you did was a punch and you have admitted it was a punch imo, you actually wanted the U.S. to punch more, see your posts above. This is like have a conversation with 10 second time. This has been explained to you many many times.

 
#88,748
#88,748
#88,749
#88,749
LSU-SIU said:
You admitted it, meaning you believe the U.S. should have been working against Russia. Should I not believe you?

I believe you, the U.S. was working against the Russians, and I believe you wished they would have done more. None of that matters at this point. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

It's a simple question, which one of the people mentioned in the "coup" call, won the 2014 election?

Strange enough that a "coup" would end in an election in and of itself.
 
#88,750
#88,750
LSU-SIU said:
It doesn't matter, they believe what you did was a punch and you have admitted it was a punch imo, you actually wanted the U.S. to punch more, see your posts above. This is like have a conversation with 10 second time. This has been explained to you many many times.
Click to expand...
This is definitely an enlightening window into how you think and view the world.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top