War in Ukraine

#88,627
#88,627
The negotiations of the land was done over the last 30 years, this is just the end result of those negotiations.
 
#88,629
#88,629
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Politely, many in Europe feared speaking out or doing anything against Hitler because they worried he'd strike them. Before Europe knew it, he was almost done with them.

You have to grow a pair and take care of things sometimes. I don't want war but Russia has zero right to invade other countries and needs to know the world won't tolerate it.

Putin won't stop at Ukraine. If bullying the world works, why should he stop there? We've seen this with Crimea. Why let it continue?
Click to expand...
Hitler also didn’t have nukes, so these aren’t the same scenarios. There is and should be a concern Putin “could” start throwing nukes as a desperate measure if he sees his defeat and hold on power is at hand. I understand where you’re coming from, but I doubt it’s a risk anyone is willing to take against this megalomaniac without coordinated help from the inside….and I don’t see that happening at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hog88 and volbound1700
#88,630
#88,630
LSU-SIU said:
Who is "we"? Sounds like you need to suit up. 🤷‍♂️

https://www.ildu.com.ua/

15673.jpg
Click to expand...

Putin nuthugger says what?
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40 and BeardedVol
#88,631
#88,631
MercyPercy said:
Putin nuthugger says what?
Click to expand...

Insane person just continues to be insane, when presented with obvious observation... insane attacks. We have a whole thread of insane people, this thread and your comments are something. 🤷‍♂️

Sign up tough guy, the world probably would be better off.
 
#88,632
#88,632
LSU-SIU said:
Insane person just continues to be insane, when presented with obvious observation... insane attacks. We have a whole thread of insane people, this thread and your comments are something.

Sign up tough guy, the world probably would be better off.
Click to expand...

Still throwing tantrums when people suggest Russia is the bad guy here. Yikes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40 and BeardedVol
#88,634
#88,634
volfanhill said:
Do you mean we should not be promising Ukraine security?
Click to expand...

Putin will not accept Ukraine joining NATO, which should be the goal for us. Those should be part of our terms. This entangling alliance is not good for us and would be a lot easier to swallow if it was officially on NATO. Putin doesn't want that because he wants to **** with Ukraine again, soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: volbound1700
#88,635
#88,635
LSU-SIU said:
You are the one that threw a tantrum when I presented an obvious observation. I can't help you, you are clearly insane.

Join up, it really is that simple.
Click to expand...

You literally responded with a non-sequitor to my post. In response to me saying why should we expect Russia to hold up their end of a peace deal, you suggest that I should go fight in Ukraine. How does that follow?

Wait, it doesn't.

You got the response you deserved for that nonsense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NorthDallas40 and BeardedVol
#88,637
#88,637
n_huffhines said:
Putin will not accept Ukraine joining NATO, which should be the goal for us. Those should be part of our terms. This entangling alliance is not good for us and would be a lot easier to swallow if it was officially on NATO. Putin doesn't want that because he wants to **** with Ukraine again, soon.
Click to expand...

For Russia to be great again (especially in his mind), they need Ukraine. I agree, he will go back. The issue, for him, is that this war was kind of a disaster as the Russian Army underperformed. I think he had expected to take Kiev in the opening move and it failed. He also, from what I hear, didn't expect the resistance from Ukrainians like what happened.

People say Putin is a genius, I disagree. The guy has made a lot of bad moves for Russia. Despite that, we can't underestimate them as they likely have learned from this failure for a second run at Ukraine (or someone else) in the future.

I would keep our eyes on Belarus situation. If Lukashenko's regime starts to crack, Russia will intervene and try to annex them.
 
#88,638
#88,638
MercyPercy said:
You literally responded with a non-sequitor to my post. In response to me saying why should we expect Russia to hold up their end of a peace deal, you suggest that I should go fight in Ukraine. How does that follow?

Wait, it doesn't.

You got the response you deserved for that nonsense.
Click to expand...

Its not nonsense, there is no "we", there is a "you". Go join up Z lover

we expect
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

"we" have no expectations, if "you" have expectations - go join up with the dwarf.
 
#88,640
#88,640
volfanhill said:
Seeing as how we are not capable of forcing Russia or Ukraine to do anything I'd say we are mediating
Click to expand...

The U.S. is not capable of forcing Russia of much of anything, basically the U.S. is all in absent direct war and probably nuclear war. The U.S. more or less can force the Ukraine either indirectly or directly. Not much has changed in 3 years i.e. Fall of 2022.
 
#88,641
#88,641
volfanhill said:
Do you mean we should not be promising Ukraine security?
Click to expand...
When ND40 and I were getting into the details of the Memorandum from which our commitment to Ukraine originates, the degree of security (or protection) is somewhat debatable. Is it a promise? an obligation? an assurance? I share that right now because I wanted to provide context on my question.

If you are the leader of another country where a bigger, more powerful country has set its sights on you, do you put any confidence in America's assurance we will get into the fray should an invasion occurs?
 
  • Like
Reactions: midnight orange and BernardKingGOAT
#88,642
#88,642
McDad said:
When ND40 and I were getting into the details of the Memorandum from which our commitment to Ukraine originates, the degree of security (or protection) is somewhat debatable. Is it a promise? an obligation? an assurance? I share that right now because I wanted to provide context on my question.

If you are the leader of another country where a bigger, more powerful country has set its sights on you, do you put any confidence in America's assurance we will get into the fray should an invasion occurs?
Click to expand...

Nobody wants the Western Ukraine, and it will have to be a welfare state for the rest of your life if someone came in. Nobody wants it, nobody wants to do anything other than take a dump in it for their own personal benefit.

The parties just gave assurances that they would not interfere, the Ukraine had just as much to worry about from the U.S. Ironically that is what happened under McCain and the CIA.

There isn't any 3d chess going on here. NOBODY wanted the Ukraine to have nukes including the U.S. Parties agreed to not interfere. Obviously that is over now.

What is there to discuss?

As far as the present situation, same as it was in 2022... nobody wants the Western Ukraine. The neocons set it up pretty well.

War in Ukraine
 
Last edited:
#88,643
#88,643
McDad said:
When ND40 and I were getting into the details of the Memorandum from which our commitment to Ukraine originates, the degree of security (or protection) is somewhat debatable. Is it a promise? an obligation? an assurance? I share that right now because I wanted to provide context on my question.

If you are the leader of another country where a bigger, more powerful country has set its sights on you, do you put any confidence in America's assurance we will get into the fray should an invasion occurs?
Click to expand...
It’s highly debatable and vague on purpose. Of the three languages the memorandum is written in ours says assurances and the other two say guarantees. Everyone associated with generating and signing off on the memorandum deserves some flogging on the intentional ambiguity
 
#88,645
#88,645
McDad said:
When ND40 and I were getting into the details of the Memorandum from which our commitment to Ukraine originates, the degree of security (or protection) is somewhat debatable. Is it a promise? an obligation? an assurance? I share that right now because I wanted to provide context on my question.

If you are the leader of another country where a bigger, more powerful country has set its sights on you, do you put any confidence in America's assurance we will get into the fray should an invasion occurs?
Click to expand...
Nope
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDad
#88,646
#88,646
Vol737 said:
Hitler also didn’t have nukes, so these aren’t the same scenarios. There is and should be a concern Putin “could” start throwing nukes as a desperate measure if he sees his defeat and hold on power is at hand. I understand where you’re coming from, but I doubt it’s a risk anyone is willing to take against this megalomaniac without coordinated help from the inside….and I don’t see that happening at this point.
Click to expand...
When did America start letting any nuclear nation turn us into jelly? The USSR had nukes and Reagan and Europe CRUMBLED it.

Was Gorbie LESS desperate than Putin? His entire country was disintegrating and no nukes but you guys think Putin is going to nuke somebody over Ukraine????
 
#88,648
#88,648
n_huffhines said:
Putin will not accept Ukraine joining NATO, which should be the goal for us. Those should be part of our terms. This entangling alliance is not good for us and would be a lot easier to swallow if it was officially on NATO. Putin doesn't want that because he wants to **** with Ukraine again, soon.
Click to expand...
This is correct.

Making Putin and Russia realize it's our (Europe's primarily but also America) will, not Russia's will is the goal. Keeping Russia from becoming a bigger menace and weaker is the goal.

It's as though some on VN think "we can just get along" or "be friends with everyone" in the world. We can't and Russia and China are bigger threats to freedom than al Qaeda ever was to our nation.
 
#88,649
#88,649
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
When did America start letting any nuclear nation turn us into jelly? The USSR had nukes and Reagan and Europe CRUMBLED it.

Was Gorbie LESS desperate than Putin? His entire country was disintegrating and no nukes but you guys think Putin is going to nuke somebody over Ukraine????
Click to expand...

If the Russians we being attacked across the Western front and were going to lose, the plan has been since the time Da Pootin was moonlighting as a taxi driver that tactical nukes would be used first. See Congressional Record. I would assume we would work under a similar plan if we had enemies at the border, other than that why would the Russians need nukes? I could see a situation where the Ukrainians or third party target nuclear reactors, I guess. Other than that I would agree.
 
#88,650
#88,650
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Making Putin and Russia realize it's our (Europe's primarily but also America) will, not Russia's will is the goal. Keeping Russia from becoming a bigger menace and weaker is the goal.
Click to expand...

The goal was to take over the Ukraine which is what happened and than creep mission into Russia in a similar manner. Now lots of people are dead. The U.S. military informed Congress in 1998 that a conventional war in Europe because of an expanding NATO would end up with Russia using tactical nuclear weapons if they were outmatched. The U.S./Europe stopped large spending on traditional warfare especially large systems in Europe, war was redirected to the middle east.

Europe and what is the Ukrainian leadership have to continue the war as long as possible. Eventually, Europe will go back to doing what they do best... go at war with each other.

What has changed in 3 years, not much, if nobody plays ball Russia will have to continue till they force the Ukrainians out of the Ukraine - which I said in 2022 could take considerable time i.e. 20 years if someone wanted to fund it with money and meat. Someone is going to have to come up with trillions $$ and lots of meat absent some outside factor.

I'm confused as to why this thread is 3500 pages. There simply is not much to this war, other than the neocons set it up very well.
 
Last edited:
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top