President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

#37,652
#37,652
apevol said:
there is 0 moral obligation for any woman who claims to have been raped to carry a child beyond the embryonic stage so whats the point of an investigation?
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Because then you have no abortion law

apevol said:
Should we enforce ectopic pregnancies?

God deals in miracles, maybe that otherwise fatal pregnancy will work out
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Has zero to do with the topic of rape
 
#37,653
#37,653
85SugarVol said:
Forget about fake claims for a moment.

Actual instances of rape where the victim is impregnated by her attacker - force her to carry the viable baby to term?
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There should be a reasonable line. Maybe 8-12 weeks. With only medically necessary abortions after that point.

If you’re raped, morning after pill exists.
 
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#37,655
#37,655
Vol8188 said:
Doesn’t seem remotely reasonable. Morning after pill exists.
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Obviously you've not heard of rapes and pregnancies of children who cannot or are too terrified to tell of the pregnancy before the morning after pill is useless.

Please, speak to a woman who has been raped and see if a morning after pill was on her radar for 72hrs after the event. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no.

I'll agree the morning after pill is a good thing but it's not a magic bullet for abortion.

And, I absolutely loathe abortion before anyone accuses me of being a liberal but I know too much personally and medically about conception to go full on "life is sacred from conception."
 
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#37,656
#37,656
Vol8188 said:
There should be a reasonable line. Maybe 8-12 weeks. With only medically necessary abortions after that point.

If you’re raped, morning after pill exists.
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Why should you get a say at all in whether any woman carries a pregnancy to term?

What's the arbitrary line of 12 weeks? A fetus couldn't survive under the best medical care currently possible until 24 weeks.
 
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#37,657
#37,657
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Obviously you've not heard of rapes and pregnancies of children who cannot or are too terrified to tell of the pregnancy before the morning after pill is useless.

Please, speak to a woman who has been raped and see if a morning after pill was on her radar for 72hrs after the event. Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no.

I'll agree the morning after pill is a good thing but it's not a magic bullet for abortion.

And, I absolutely loathe abortion before anyone accuses me of being a liberal but I know too much personally and medically about conception to go full on "life is sacred from conception."
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I’m open to abortion around 8-12 weeks. Anything after that should only be for medical necessity.

If you allow someone to claim rape in order to get an abortion, your only accomplishment will be significantly increasing the number of reported rapes, both real and fake
 
#37,660
#37,660
BeardedVol said:
Why should you get a say at all in whether any woman carries a pregnancy to term?
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Because civilized societies have laws against murder, to include murdering your own child.

BeardedVol said:
What's the arbitrary line of 12 weeks? A fetus couldn't survive under the best medical care currently possible until 24 weeks.
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Why does only viability matter? It’s not that 12 is magical, but rather that 12 is reasonable.
 
#37,662
#37,662
DinkinFlicka said:
Aside from a lower success rate than an abortion (I can't believe I'm having to illustrate this to someone who claims to practice medicine), there are several scenarios in which this isn't considered.
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I’m not a 0 abortion ever kind of person. I said I think there should be a line probably around 8-12 weeks.

Anything past that, there should be only medical exemptions.
 
#37,664
#37,664
Vol8188 said:
Because civilized societies have laws against murder, to include murdering your own child.



Why does only viability matter? It’s not that 12 is magical, but rather that 12 is reasonable.
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Good thing abortion isn't murder, and even if it were, if according to the Supreme Court, police officers have no obligation to protect citizens, then the government has no business trying to protect a cluster of fetal cells in a woman's uterus.

Viability matters because you've picked date prior to viability to make it as hard as possible for a woman to get an abortion when even if she birthed the fetus 3 weeks later from your arbitrary date, it still wouldn't survive without major health issues.

You guys always rant and rave about getting the government out of your life except when it comes to forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term, then all those "conservative" values go out the window.
 
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#37,666
#37,666
BeardedVol said:
Good thing abortion isn't murder, and even if it were, if according to the Supreme Court, police officers have no obligation to protect citizens, then the government has no business trying to protect a cluster of fetal cells in a woman's uterus.
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Your Supreme Court example is beyond stupid to bring up here. Obviously at some point abortion becomes murder. So yes, the government should intervene in murder. Even if it’s your kid.

BeardedVol said:
Viability matters because you've picked date prior to viability to make it as hard as possible for a woman to get an abortion when even if she birthed the fetus 3 weeks later from your arbitrary date, it still wouldn't survive without major health issues.
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12 weeks is a very long time. Doesn’t sound “as hard as possible”.

BeardedVol said:
You guys always rant and rave about getting the government out of your life except when it comes to forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term, then all those "conservative" values go out the window.
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You’re confusing conservative and anarchy. I’ve never claimed I want a government so small that it lacks murder laws.
 
#37,667
#37,667
apevol said:
i didnt realize we were talking exclusively about rape

so theres nothing wrong with abortion, just when rape is involved?
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lol now you’ve completely lost me with that question. As far as morally, yes there’s something wrong with abortion.
 
#37,670
#37,670
Vol8188 said:
lol now you’ve completely lost me with that question. As far as morally, yes there’s something wrong with abortion.
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we were talking about exceptions. so hand waving ectopic pregnancies as not related to rape is some bad mischief
 
#37,671
#37,671
Vol8188 said:
I’m open to abortion around 8-12 weeks. Anything after that should only be for medical necessity.

If you allow someone to claim rape in order to get an abortion, your only accomplishment will be significantly increasing the number of reported rapes, both real and fake
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There's definitely a point where society's interest in the developing embryo as human becomes a factor that's equal or greater than that of the woman.

At one point Israel had an abortion law that did not prevent abortion even up to term. Despicable. Barbaric. And that's Israel which still, I believe, has one of the most liberal abortion laws in the world. It's obviously not a moral question there.

My issue socially is you cannot force motherhood even if you can force birth and lots of children age out of foster care now in America and straight into poverty. That, again, shouldn't figure into abortion but draws a CLEAR picture that saying we "value the child" and actually valuing the child are not meeting up for those of us who hate abortion passionately.

I don't have a "set number of weeks" that I can say should be a cutoff.

Morally, I hate justifying intentionally killing a potential human life under any circumstances. I'm also EXTREMELY passionate that govt can kiss my butt on controlling my personal life and certainly an early pregnancy is a woman's very personal life.

I'd love to have a clear "this many weeks" answer but I can't do it. I feel for any family or individual who is placed in that dilemma.
 
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#37,672
#37,672
Vol8188 said:
Your Supreme Court example is beyond stupid to bring up here. Obviously at some point abortion becomes murder. So yes, the government should intervene in murder. Even if it’s your kid.



12 weeks is a very long time. Doesn’t sound “as hard as possible”.



You’re confusing conservative and anarchy. I’ve never claimed I want a government so small that it lacks murder laws.
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It's the Supreme Court that decided that women in fact do not have a right to control their own bodies after the fact, their various rulings on the obligation of the government to protect citizens is quite relevant, especially given that it's zero.

No fetus is viable a 12 weeks. No fetus is viable at 16 weeks. No fetus is viable at 20 weeks. You're picking a number that you feel will reduce the likelihood of a woman being able to get an abortion because of when most women realize they are pregnant.

No, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of your belief system that champions removing government interference in our lives, except when it comes to forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term.
 
#37,675
#37,675
BernardKingGOAT said:
Trump firing a statistician because he didn't like the the numbers and then issuing an order to only release the job numbers quarterly is a textbook move of an authoritarian
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What does that have to do with the crime in DC. Keep reaching though. The statistician has been awful at her job for years
 
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