Israel vs Palestinians II

[MAD]

You have two clear sides, one values life and the other death.

 

[hog88]

If you haven’t noticed, this isn’t as much as a forum than that of a pro Israel circlejerk. They could assassinate Peyton manning and people here would be questioning if he had ties to Hamas.

I thought you were smarter than this. Huff, Nash Eastern no but I did think you were.

 

[Persian Vol]

I thought you were smarter than this. Huff, Nash Eastern no but I did think you were.

Likewise.

 

[Smokey123]

You have two clear sides, one values life and the other death.

Claiming there are no innocent lives in Gaza is not valuing life.

 

[hog88]

Likewise.

Some people just let their emotions, politics, religion, race, ethnicity (you choose) override their common sense.

 

[Peradox1K]

Buddy, what? I get there are accidental casualties, and some you might intentionally abide to get a guy like Bin Ladin, but intentionally shooting children is not "war is war." War is war and war crimes are another thing.



It's not a genocide because "war is war?"

It is genocide because genocide has a legal definition and the criteria has been met.

Everyone who claims it's not genocide seems to think that Israel's goal has to be the complete annihilation of all Palestinians. And, conveniently, they're never going to believe that's Israel's intent unless Israel explicitly says it.

But the criteria isn't that stringent.

The legal definition of genocide is outlined in the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948), adopted by the United Nations. According to Article II of the convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group:

1. Killing members of the group; (big ol fkn check mark)
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (big ol fkn check mark)
3. Deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part (such as creating living conditions that lead to death); (big ol fkn check mark)
4. Imposing measures to prevent births within the group; (allegations)
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. (debatable)

These acts must be carried out with the specific intent to destroy the group, either in whole or in part. This intent is a key element in determining whether a crime qualifies as genocide under international law.

Arguably, they meet every condition and they definitely meet 3 of the most objective conditions. The subjective is the intent. In order to say this is not genocide, you have to believe that Israel's intent is not to destroy Gaza, it's just kinda happening even though they said their plan is to take Gaza and ethnically cleanse the region, which means erasing Palestinian Gaza life forever by killing 100k+ in the process, but not in a genocidal way.

No, their goal is get rid of Hamas. Some people may just get caught in crossfire.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I

This can be said for every single person using the IDF as a source, which is most of this thread

I see no reason to distrust the Iowa Dairy Federation……

 

[Ritzwatch]

I

I see no reason to distrust the Iowa Dairy Federation……

Nash’s lactose intolerance is getting ponderous.

 

[dalton_vol]

Some people just let their emotions, politics, religion, race, ethnicity (you choose) override their common sense.

You're describing the dimocrat party

 

[NashVol11]

Some people just let their emotions, politics, religion, race, ethnicity (you choose) override their common sense.

Exhibit A, but you liked this one

There are no innocent lives in Gaza,
Don’t talk to me about starvation, humanitarian aid.
...
And you and the others are….But yeah, yeah but Israel.
SHUT UP.

THIS IS ALL ON HAMAS
Laughing, mocking, soulless.

 

[n_huffhines]

No, their goal is get rid of Hamas. Some people may just get caught in crossfire.

You sure that's the only goal? You sure about that's why?

How about you believe the 99 American doctors who testified to the deliberate shooting of pre-teen kids?

How about you believe Netanyahu when he says the goal is to empty Gaza (Riviera plan). Literally, ethnic cleansing is the goal.

Here's to hoping you are one of the few people who will change their mind when confronted with new facts.

Netanyahu Sets Trump Plan to Forcibly Expel All Palestinians From Gaza as Condition for Ceasefire

The Israeli leader endorsed Trump’s plan for the forced displacement of all Palestinians from Gaza.

truthout.org

 

[NashVol11]

 

[n_huffhines]

I think I read about this part in the book of Revelation. Just fulfilling prophesy.

 

[Peradox1K]

You sure that's the only goal? You sure about that's why?

How about you believe the 99 American doctors who testified to the deliberate shooting of pre-teen kids?

How about you believe Netanyahu when he says the goal is to empty Gaza (Riviera plan). Literally, ethnic cleansing is the goal.

Here's to hoping you are one of the few people who will change their mind when confronted with new facts.

Netanyahu Sets Trump Plan to Forcibly Expel All Palestinians From Gaza as Condition for Ceasefire

The Israeli leader endorsed Trump’s plan for the forced displacement of all Palestinians from Gaza.

truthout.org

Hey genius, did you think that the preteens might've tried to injure them? No one's innocent here.

 

[n_huffhines]

Hey genius, did you think that the preteens might've tried to injure them? No one's innocent here.

No one? Not even a starving infant? What does that even mean? Is this some original sin BS? How could no one be innocent?

Thanks for demonstrating early that you are hopeless.

 

[KB5252]

You sure that's the only goal? You sure about that's why?

How about you believe the 99 American doctors who testified to the deliberate shooting of pre-teen kids?

How about you believe Netanyahu when he says the goal is to empty Gaza (Riviera plan). Literally, ethnic cleansing is the goal.

Here's to hoping you are one of the few people who will change their mind when confronted with new facts.

Netanyahu Sets Trump Plan to Forcibly Expel All Palestinians From Gaza as Condition for Ceasefire

The Israeli leader endorsed Trump’s plan for the forced displacement of all Palestinians from Gaza.

truthout.org

How do American doctors know by treating them the kids were shot deliberately?

I've asked this question elsewhere and received no response. That statement screams an agenda, unless there is something I'm missing, this statement seems to be completely agenda driven.

I believe objective people look at those statements as a means to exert pressure on HAMAS sponsors and operatives. If their goal was ethnic cleansing high yield large scale bombs as opposed to smaller yield strikes would be taking place. There are millions of people crammed together. If they wanted them erased it should have taken weeks, maybe a month or two.

 

[KB5252]

I think I read about this part in the book of Revelation. Just fulfilling prophesy.

Seems to me it's equally in line with the Quran too no?

 

[hog88]

Exhibit A, but you liked this one

I do disagree with MAD about the "no innocent lives".

 

[Persian Vol]

Some people just let their emotions, politics, religion, race, ethnicity (you choose) override their common sense.

Again, likewise.

 

[jp1]

Hey genius, did you think that the preteens might've tried to injure them? No one's innocent here.

There are innocents in every war.

 

[Persian Vol]

“War is war, and innocents will die”

A common rhetoric that gets tossed around, often celebrated as wisdom as if this is anything other than the lowest form critical thinking.

Appeal to inevitability: It assumes civilian deaths are unavoidable in war, therefore they are automatically justified or excusable, skipping over whether this specific conduct was necessary or proportionate.

False dichotomy: It frames the situation as if the only options are (1) war with civilian deaths or (2) doing nothing, ignoring the nuance of alternative strategies.

This grotesque line of thinking serves only to erase accountability and dull our moral conscience.

 

[Smokey123]

Hey genius, did you think that the preteens might've tried to injure them? No one's innocent here.

What about the 6 children collecting water that was bombed and IDF admitted was an error. The 15 aid workers that were killed and the IDF fired the commander bcuz he lied about what happened. How about the family shot in their car evacuating Gaza city, the 5 year old calls the dispatcher while she’s sitting beside her dead parents, only for her body to also be discovered 10 days later along with the ambulance that was on their way to get her but never came

 

[Persian Vol]

Hey genius, did you think that the preteens might've tried to injure them? No one's innocent here.

What leads you to believe they are not innocent? Why is this your default stance?

 

[KB5252]

“War is war, and innocents will die”

A common rhetoric that gets tossed around, often celebrated as wisdom as if this is anything other than the lowest form critical thinking.

Appeal to inevitability: It assumes civilian deaths are unavoidable in war, therefore they are automatically justified or excusable, skipping over whether this specific conduct was necessary or proportionate.

False dichotomy: It frames the situation as if the only options are (1) war with civilian deaths or (2) doing nothing, ignoring the nuance of alternative strategies.

This grotesque line of thinking serves only to erase accountability and dull our moral conscience.

I understand what you're getting at and agree to some extent. But considering this is guerilla warfare in an urban/densely populated area civilian deaths are inevitable.

Necessary or proportionate aren't part of the calculus. Removing Hamas is the objective. Hamas has embedded itself among under and behind Palestinians.

Given the stated goal of removing Hamas how would you prosecute this conflict if you had the control?

Not trying to play gotcha, just wanting to see if there are means or strategies I hadn't considered.

 

[hog88]

Again, likewise.

You'd have a point if Hamas gave up the hostages. But as long as you defend people holding hostages and the people providing them aid you're failing to use common sense.