War in Ukraine

#88,079
#88,079
MontyPython said:
The obvious.

Establish a specific date in the future, say October 1, 2025. Tell Putin that on that day, Ukraine will be admitted to NATO. As such, any attack on Ukraine after that date would trip Article 5 and NATO would declare war on Russia.

Ain't complicated. No way on God's green Earth would Putin want war with NATO.

War would end and Ukraine now part of Europe.
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Or we get nuclear Armageddon
 
#88,081
#88,081
hog88 said:
Or we get nuclear Armageddon
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So... do we let Russia act against our best national interests because it may resort to nukes? I gather we also now treat North Korea with kid gloves too, as Kim Jong loves to threaten with his nukes?

And then when Iran finally gets their nukes (won't be long), then we also let them invade / attack whomever they like because, hey, they got nukes and might use them?

The answer to all of this is NO.

Mutually Assured Destruction has worked since the USSR got the bomb. It will continue to work moving forward. What we really need to worry about is a terrorist-, splinter- or covert state-supported sneak attack with nukes on our ports and coastal cities If we'll see nukes go off in our future, I'd wager that's how and why.
 
#88,082
#88,082
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#88,083
#88,083
MontyPython said:
So... do we let Russia act against our best national interests because it may resort to nukes? I gather we also now treat North Korea with kid gloves too, as Kim Jong loves to threaten with his nukes?

And then when Iran finally gets their nukes (won't be long), then we also let them invade / attack whomever they like because, hey, they got nukes and might use them?

The answer to all of this is NO.

Mutually Assured Destruction has worked since the USSR got the bomb. It will continue to work moving forward. What we really need to worry about is a terrorist-, splinter- or covert state-supported sneak attack with nukes on our ports and coastal cities If we'll see nukes go off in our future, I'd wager that's how and why.
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Ukraine is of no national interest to the US. Admitting Ukraine to NATO and going to war on their behalf gains us nothing.

If you truly wanted to end this war you would be advocating for severe, economy killing sanctions on any nation that buys 1 drop of Russian oil or gas but oops that would mean sanctioning the European NATO countries you want to fight Russia with. Europe, India and China are funding Russias war effort yet I don’t see you calling for them to be punished for it.
 
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#88,084
#88,084
hog88 said:
Are you really this dumb or do you just play complete idiot on VN?

Monty advocated for bringing Ukraine into NATO and threatening to declare war on Russia. Where do you think declaring war on Russia will lead?
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Lol, resorting to an ad hominem isn't going to cover up the fact that you were silent when Trump moved US nuclear assets in response to a twitter spat, nor is it going to erase all of the nuclear threats put for by Russia over literal decades.
 
#88,085
#88,085
BeardedVol said:
Lol, resorting to an ad hominem isn't going to cover up the fact that you were silent when Trump moved US nuclear assets in response to a twitter spat, nor is it going to erase all of the nuclear threats put for by Russia over literal decades.
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We move nuclear assets all over the world, 99% of the time the public has no idea where they are. That’s a nothingburger.
 
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#88,086
#88,086
hog88 said:
We move nuclear assets all over the world when the president gets their feelings hurt on twitter, 99% of the time the public has no idea where they are. That’s a nothingburger.
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oh-sure-john-candy.gif


The things you people are willing to carry water for...
 
#88,088
#88,088
BeardedVol said:
Lol, Trump moved nuclear-capable submarines closer to Russia because he has twitter beef with Medvedev, but this where you draw the line and start clutching your pearls about "nuclear armageddon".
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Announcing the movement of a couple of subs that were already in the area to begin with knowing Russia also has subs deployed similarly isn't even in the same Hemisphere as admitting the country they are already at war with into NATO as far as provocations go.

It's already been stated it was a red line for Russia that would lead directly to nuclear standoff and likely war.
 
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#88,089
#88,089
BeardedVol said:
Lol, resorting to an ad hominem isn't going to cover up the fact that you were silent when Trump moved US nuclear assets in response to a twitter spat, nor is it going to erase all of the nuclear threats put for by Russia over literal decades.
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Those subs were already in theatre most likely, it was posturing......... What you're advocating for is declaring war on Russia. Those are two every different things.
 
#88,090
#88,090
hog88 said:
Ukraine is of no national interest to the US. Admitting Ukraine to NATO and going to war on their behalf gains us nothing.

If you truly wanted to end this war you would be advocating for severe, economy killing sanctions on any nation that buys 1 drop of Russian oil or gas but oops that would mean sanctioning the European NATO countries you want to fight Russia with. Europe, India and China are funding Russias war effort yet I don’t see you calling for them to be punished for it.
Click to expand...

On the latter, true but the net effect is a spike in oil prices, so it would affect us.

On the former, both the Biden and the Trump administration have continued funding them and/or provided them weapons, so our nation seems to find Ukraine of national interest... as do I.
 
#88,091
#88,091
KB5252 said:
Announcing the movement of a couple of subs that were already in the area to begin with knowing Russia also has subs deployed similarly isn't even in the same Hemisphere as admitting the country they are already at war with into NATO as far as provocations go.

It's already been stated it was a red line for Russia that would lead directly to nuclear standoff and likely war.
Click to expand...

If Russia wants to commit suicide, NATO is happy to oblige.

Any conventional war would result in Russian troops being routed. Putin knows this, as do we.

Should Russia strike with tactical nukes, Putin would seal his fate as we would seek regime change.

He's got far too much to risk... and what would be his potential 'rewards'? There are, literally, none.
 
#88,092
#88,092
KB5252 said:
Announcing the movement of a couple of subs after getting mad about some tweets that might have were already been in the area to begin with knowing Russia also has subs deployed similarly isn't even in the same Hemisphere as admitting the country they are already at war with into NATO as far as provocations go.

It's already been stated it was a red line for Russia that would lead directly to nuclear standoff and likely war.
Click to expand...
Added the context you intentionally left out.
 
#88,093
#88,093
KB5252 said:
Those subs were already in theatre most likely, it was posturing......... What you're advocating for is declaring war on Russia. Those are two every different things.
Click to expand...
Again, you want to leave out the context of him doing so, because he got into a Twitter spat with Medvedev.

If this were a Democrat, your be calling for a congressional inquiry, and questioning their sanity.
 
#88,094
#88,094
MontyPython said:
On the latter, true but the net effect is a spike in oil prices, so it would affect us.

On the former, both the Biden and the Trump administration have continued funding them and/or provided them weapons, so our nation seems to find Ukraine of national interest... as do I.
Click to expand...

What do you think would happen if we went to war with Russia? Basically you want us involved but only if it doesn’t affect us. That’s not the way it works
 
#88,095
#88,095
MontyPython said:
If Russia wants to commit suicide, NATO is happy to oblige.

Any conventional war would result in Russian troops being routed. Putin knows this, as do we.

Should Russia strike with tactical nukes, Putin would seal his fate as we would seek regime change.

He's got far too much to risk... and what would be his potential 'rewards'? There are, literally, none.
Click to expand...

If tactical nukes are used it will assuredly escalate to strategic. There’s no putting that genie back in the bottle.
 
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#88,096
#88,096
hog88 said:
If tactical nukes are used it will assuredly escalate to strategic. There’s no putting that genie back in the bottle.
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There is no such thing as a "tactical nuke" when it comes to MAD; it's a misnomer.

Any release of nuclear weapons in Ukraine by Russia would be responded to by NATO in kind.
www.military.com

Mattis: There Is No Such Thing as a 'Tactical' Nuke

Defense Secretary Mattis said new low-yield nuclear weapons would be bargaining chips for arms deals.
www.military.com www.military.com
 
#88,097
#88,097
MontyPython said:
If Russia wants to commit suicide, NATO is happy to oblige.

Any conventional war would result in Russian troops being routed. Putin knows this, as do we.

Should Russia strike with tactical nukes, Putin would seal his fate as we would seek regime change.

He's got far too much to risk... and what would be his potential 'rewards'? There are, literally, none.
Click to expand...
Any war fought with Russia would be our become nuclear. MAD being the likely outcome. I don't see a lot of options that don't escalate this to a degree no one is comfortable with.
 
#88,099
#88,099
BeardedVol said:
Again, you want to leave out the context of him doing so, because he got into a Twitter spat with Medvedev.

If this were a Democrat, your be calling for a congressional inquiry, and questioning their sanity.
Click to expand...
No, it's posturing. I didn't call for a congressional inquiry when Biden injected us into this to begin with, though admittedly I questioned his sanity (senility) but for much more obvious reasons.

I actually supported helping Ukraine........ But at this point Ukraine can't win unless we enter the conflict directly......... And I see nothing for us to gain by doing so.
 
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