Israel vs Palestinians

[EasternVol]

Surrounding countries have done next to nothing to help at this point, so I don’t think we should put much consideration into their opinions. The only reason they would oppose the emptying of Gaza is because they also don’t want Gazans.

Help with what? They're not vested in displacing Palestinians.
Is 'don't want Gazans' another way to say they don't think Gazans should be driven from their land?

 

[EasternVol]

Sure, that’s their initial stance. Stances change throughout negotiations.

I do think it’s funny you assume it’s because of their commitment to a two state solution, rather than fears for example that they’ll overthrow the Jordanian government.

I imagine that’s why Egypt enforces an embargo too. Because of their commitment to a two state solution. Not because they don’t want armed terrorists in their country

Egypt does what they do because we pay them buckets of money to toe the line.

 

[NashVol11]

Gonna have to remake Grok again

 

[OrangeTsar]

Not just the beginning. All the way up until October 7th 2023. Hamas was propped up in the 80’s to be opposition to the 2 state solution because Palestinian authorities and PLO were pushing for it. acting like it was only a Palestinian rejection is laughable

And that’s wrong??? Funding terror makes you no better than the ones committing the terror. Why is this defended

The PLO was pushing for a two state solution? Really? Then why did they turn one down?

Barak Proposes Land Deal; Arafat Rejects Offer

abcnews.go.com

 

[OrangeTsar]

Israel is expected to:

Stop a war they didn’t start

Aid those that want to kill them

Make peace with those who don’t want it

Be the perfect victim and never fight back

Best description ever for the Palestinians

 

[Smokey123]

The PLO was pushing for a two state solution? Really? Then why did they turn one down?

Barak Proposes Land Deal; Arafat Rejects Offer

abcnews.go.com

Yes they wanted a 2 state solution. That specific deal didn’t deal with everything, it pushed off Palestinian refugees and Jerusalem for “2 or 3 more years”

But I like how you ignored everything else and I said and glossed over the fact that Barak lost support because he wanted a 2 state solution

 

[Smokey123]

The PLO has literally accepted the idea of a 2 state solution since 1982

 

[OrangeTsar]

The PLO has literally accepted the idea of a 2 state solution since 1982

They have SAID they do; but every time one starts becoming possible, they suddenly get cold feet.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Huh? They shouldn’t aim to stop the war? Israeli and Palestinian should continue to die?

Aiding those that want to kill them is what caused Oct 7th. Which ironically is defended by plenty of pro Israel people

Bibi doesn’t want peace either

It all stops with the release of the hostages and surrender of Hamas

 

[Orangeslice13]

The PLO has literally accepted the idea of a 2 state solution since 1982

Can you imagine where we’d be if they had accepted the Clinton deal. That deal is now unthinkable. They have successfully made their situation so much worse.

 

[EasternVol]

The 100k number are on 45 day temporary visas. It seems really disingenuous to proclaim they’ve accepted 100k. Most of those are temporary for medical purposes.

In reality they’ve accepted 0.

Gazans have to go somewhere. They’ve shown an obvious inability to coexist with Israelis, so I’m not sure why anyone would recommend they go there. Places like Jordan should be their best cultural fits. Deals could be made.

How about Gaza, or Israel if they want? After all it's where they're from.

 

[MAD]

This was a stupid answer in the first place, Israel has indisputably killed more gay people in Gaza than Palestine has

Proof?

 

[MAD]

The alternative to bombing occupied apartment buildings is surrender? There are other options.

What are those options?

 

[EasternVol]

The West spent almost 10 centuries defending against Muslim Invasions.
Now they are inviting them in.
View attachment 757242

Battle of Vienna 1683

What is 'false analogies that don't matter anyway' Alex?

 

[MAD]

Gonna have to remake Grok again

Show us the facts that babies are starving

 

[OrangeTsar]

What is 'false analogies that don't matter anyway' Alex?

What is the false part of analogy exactly?
Was it a) Muslims invaded Western Europe throughout history or b) Western Countries are currently openly encouraging Muslims to come in to their counties?
Please elaborate. You are making no sense whatsoever

 

[Smokey123]

They have SAID they do; but every time one starts becoming possible, they suddenly get cold feet.

Because as I previously stated the powers that be don’t want a 2 state solution. Afarat said he wanted to accept the deal but knew he’d be murdered within a week if he did. Why do you think Yitzhak was killed. 2 state was never going to happen. And again it’s hilarious you try to make it seem like it’s because of Palestinians

 

[Smokey123]

It all stops with the release of the hostages and surrender of Hamas

I mostly agree. I think it’s more complicated than that tho

 

[Smokey123]

Can you imagine where we’d be if they had accepted the Clinton deal. That deal is now unthinkable. They have successfully made their situation so much worse.

I do agree, but we both know it was never actually going to happen

 

[EasternVol]

We bombed the **** out of Berlin, Dresden, Hamburg, Leipzig, Munich, and Tokyo. And i won’t even bring up Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
It’s called War. You either fight it like your life depends on it (it does) or you play around with one hand tied behind your back and it stretches on forever like Vietnam.
Hamas doesn’t get to kick the hornets nest and then complain when they get stung.

Many if not most of those WWII bombings were war crimes under current law you know.
Choosing to not attack civilians isn't fighting with one hand behind your back. To say it is is just a cop out.

 

[EasternVol]

Well maybe tell the Palestinians that; because they no longer (and never have) supported a 2 state solution. Arafat was presented one on a silver platter and turned it down.
Palestinians want a single state solution. And guess what single state they want? (Hint; it will not tolerate Jews)

I wonder how the Palestinians chose you as their spokesperson.

 

[EasternVol]

Hamas can’t be fully destroyed if the people doing the destroying want them to exist

And are busy creating their successors.

 

[volfanhill]

Many if not most of those WWII bombings were war crimes under current law you know.
Choosing to not attack civilians isn't fighting with one hand behind your back. To say it is is just a cop out.

If we were in WWII situation again we would ignore international law and bomb the **** out of whoever we needed to.

Morality was brought up earlier. Does a government have a moral obligation to insure the safety of its citizens before those they are at war with? If so what's the trade off on that? Looping @McDad in bc I'm curious his thoughts on that.

 

[EasternVol]

Seems like the answer is their treatment of Christians.

Seems like it. Maybe that will help more see that it's a land dispute more than a religious dispute.

 

[EasternVol]

No one wants a two state solution any more except for naive westerners.
And yes, Bibi helped prop up Hamas in the beginning. You can’t predict the future.

Are you aware that United States basically founded and funded the Mujuhidin in Afghanistan to oppose the Soviet Union? The same organization that gave us Osama bin Laden?
You make the deals you need to make at the time. You can’t ever foresee the future consequences .

Your understanding of bin Ladin's origins as a terrorist is predictably flawed. He was doing his misdeeds long before he settled in Afghanistan.