What is going on with the Big Beautiful Bill?

What's going on with the Big Beautiful Bill?

  • Trump is knowingly lying about Medicaid cuts

    Votes: 10 55.6%

  • Trump is being misled by his staff

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Tillis is lying

    Votes: 8 44.4%
  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .
#351
#351
Berry4Heisman14 said:
Both. Some of the provisions I mentioned are from the 2017 TCJA and stay in place under the OBBB, and some are new or extended. But the key issue isn’t whether the OBBB adds new tax breaks for the rich it’s that it extends and preserves a structure that already favors them.
So even if the top tax brackets stay the same, the bill keeps in place things like, The 21% corporate tax rate (down from 35%) Lower tax rates on pass through income and capital gains
No changes to how the ultra wealthy avoid taxes through trusts, real estate loopholes, or carried interest. And to top things off, it cuts funding to programs that disproportionately help low and middle income people, like Medicaid. So the overall effect is still tilted heavily toward the top. You can’t just look at “what’s changed” only, you have to look at what’s protected and who benefits from that. I’m not a dem either, I don’t think any politicians truthfully care about us.
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Ok. I understand you better now. The "gripe" is less about what OBBB did to change things and more about what it didn't do go back to 2016 policies. Correct?
 
#352
#352
Berry4Heisman14 said:
The 2000$ is a maximum not a guarantee. Most families won’t see that. Everyone technically got a cut but the rich got the biggest slice by far. Saying every family benefits while ignoring how much they benefit compared to people who are insanely wealthy already is misleading
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The rich pay the biggest slice by far.
 
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#353
#353
McDad said:
Ok. I understand you better now. The "gripe" is less about what OBBB did to change things and more about what it didn't do go back to 2016 policies. Correct?
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It’s a little bit of both but I would say the fact the past policies have been ignored is a big issue amongst all
 
#354
#354
hog88 said:
The rich pay the biggest slice by far.
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Sure, the rich do pay the largest share in total federal income taxes because they make the most money. The top 1% earn around 20% of all income and own over 30% of the wealth. Of course they’ll pay a bigger chunk in taxes. But that doesn’t mean the system isn’t tilted in their favor. What matters more is effective tax rate what people actually pay after deductions, loopholes, and write offs. And for many ultra wealthy individuals, that rate ends up being lower than what middle-class families pay. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos they’ve gone years paying little to no federal income tax thanks to asset based income and tax shelters. So yeah, they pay more in raw dollars but the system still gives them more ways to keep and grow their wealth than the average worker.
 
#356
#356
Berry4Heisman14 said:
Sure, the rich do pay the largest share in total federal income taxes because they make the most money. The top 1% earn around 20% of all income and own over 30% of the wealth. Of course they’ll pay a bigger chunk in taxes. But that doesn’t mean the system isn’t tilted in their favor. What matters more is effective tax rate what people actually pay after deductions, loopholes, and write offs. And for many ultra wealthy individuals, that rate ends up being lower than what middle-class families pay. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos they’ve gone years paying little to no federal income tax thanks to asset based income and tax shelters. So yeah, they pay more in raw dollars but the system still gives them more ways to keep and grow their wealth than the average worker.
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Can you provide 1 tax "loophole"?
 
#357
#357
hog88 said:
Can you provide 1 tax "loophole"?
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Sure, one is the carried interest loophole.
It allows hedge fund managers and private equity executives to classify a big chunk of their income as capital gains instead of regular income so instead of being taxed at up to 37%, it gets taxed at around 20%.That’s a massive tax break for people who are already earning millions.Even Trump claimed he wanted to close it in 2016, but it stayed in the 2017 tax law because it benefits wealthy donors and powerful financial interests.
 
#358
#358
Berry4Heisman14 said:
Sure, one is the carried interest loophole.
It allows hedge fund managers and private equity executives to classify a big chunk of their income as capital gains instead of regular income so instead of being taxed at up to 37%, it gets taxed at around 20%.That’s a massive tax break for people who are already earning millions.Even Trump claimed he wanted to close it in 2016, but it stayed in the 2017 tax law because it benefits wealthy donors and powerful financial interests.
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An asset (investment) must be held for 3 years to take advantage of the carried interest provision of the tax code. Holding something for multiple years is not ordinary income.
 
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#360
#360
Berry4Heisman14 said:
Sure, the rich do pay the largest share in total federal income taxes because they make the most money. The top 1% earn around 20% of all income and own over 30% of the wealth. Of course they’ll pay a bigger chunk in taxes. But that doesn’t mean the system isn’t tilted in their favor. What matters more is effective tax rate what people actually pay after deductions, loopholes, and write offs. And for many ultra wealthy individuals, that rate ends up being lower than what middle-class families pay. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos they’ve gone years paying little to no federal income tax thanks to asset based income and tax shelters. So yeah, they pay more in raw dollars but the system still gives them more ways to keep and grow their wealth than the average worker.
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If I am tracking with you here, it isn't about how much they pay in taxes. It is about what the percentage is compared to other taxpayers?
 
#361
#361
McDad said:
If I am tracking with you here, it isn't about how much they pay in taxes. It is about what the percentage is compared to other taxpayers?
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Because they have more they are able to utilize “loopholes”. If they risk money to make money they shouldn’t be able to keep what they make.
 
#365
#365
C-south said:
Because they have more they are able to utilize “loopholes”. If they risk money to make money they shouldn’t be able to keep what they make.
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Keeping what you earned and exploiting tax rules are 2 different things. They aren’t paying less bc they took risk, they’re paying less bc they can afford armies of lawyers, accountants, lobbyists etc. it’s not about risk it’s about power and access
 
#368
#368
hog88 said:
An asset (investment) must be held for 3 years to take advantage of the carried interest provision of the tax code. Holding something for multiple years is not ordinary income.
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You’re mixing up regular long term capital gains with carried interest, which is something different. Carried interest isn’t the return on someone’s own investment it’s a cut of other people’s profits that fund managers get as compensation for managing money. It’s essentially a performance bonus, but instead of being taxed as ordinary income like a salary or a commission, it’s taxed at the long-term capital gains rate currently 20%. So yeah, they can hold the asset for 3 years to qualify, but it’s still not their own money they invested it’s a fee for services. If a plumber gets paid for fixing a pipe, they’re taxed at ordinary income. Hedge fund managers? They call it carried interest and get a lower rate. That’s the problem. And for the record, dems exploit these things too, do not think I’m implying only trump and his buddies do this.
 
#369
#369
Berry4Heisman14 said:
Sure, the rich do pay the largest share in total federal income taxes because they make the most money. The top 1% earn around 20% of all income and own over 30% of the wealth. Of course they’ll pay a bigger chunk in taxes. But that doesn’t mean the system isn’t tilted in their favor. What matters more is effective tax rate what people actually pay after deductions, loopholes, and write offs. And for many ultra wealthy individuals, that rate ends up being lower than what middle-class families pay. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos they’ve gone years paying little to no federal income tax thanks to asset based income and tax shelters. So yeah, they pay more in raw dollars but the system still gives them more ways to keep and grow their wealth than the average worker.
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So what? They also create more wealth than the average worker. Without them, there would be no need for all those engineers at SpacEx and TSLA that - by the way - pay taxes. You just want to punish anyone that makes more than you.
 
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#370
#370
SpaceCoastVol said:
So what? They also create more wealth than the average worker. Without them, there would be no need for all those engineers at SpacEx and TSLA that - by the way - pay taxes. You just want to punish anyone that makes more than you.
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It’s not about punishing success it’s about making sure the rules aren’t rigged in favor of the already ultra wealthy. I fully recognize that people like Musk or Bezos create jobs and innovation. That’s not the issue. The issue is when they benefit from a tax system that lets them pay a lower effective rate than a nurse, a teacher, or a firefighter. That’s not fair and it’s not sustainable. I’m not against wealth. I’m against a system where people at the top have access to loopholes and special treatment that regular working people don’t. Wanting a fair system isn’t jealousy it’s common sense. The Democratic Party is no different when it comes to tax corruption, they’re as scummy and corrupt as it gets too
 
#373
#373
Berry4Heisman14 said:
It’s not about punishing success it’s about making sure the rules aren’t rigged in favor of the already ultra wealthy. I fully recognize that people like Musk or Bezos create jobs and innovation. That’s not the issue. The issue is when they benefit from a tax system that lets them pay a lower effective rate than a nurse, a teacher, or a firefighter. That’s not fair and it’s not sustainable. I’m not against wealth. I’m against a system where people at the top have access to loopholes and special treatment that regular working people don’t. Wanting a fair system isn’t jealousy it’s common sense. The Democratic Party is no different when it comes to tax corruption, they’re as scummy and corrupt as it gets too
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So everyone pays the same tax rate across the board with no credits or deductions or in your words, “loopholes?” Everyone writes a check at the end of the year.
 
#374
#374
C-south said:
So everyone pays the same tax rate across the board with no credits or deductions or in your words, “loopholes?” Everyone writes a check at the end of the year.
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Nice strawman. I’m saying the system shouldn’t be designed to let the ultra wealthy avoid paying a fair share through legal tricks that most people can’t access
 
#375
#375
I have to get some rest, gotta work in the morning will come back to debate another time. I hope everyone has a good, safe night!
 
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