New York City

#4,877
#4,877
NashVol11 said:
I don't know or care but I think it is pretty weird to suggest his politics are defined by some video from 5 years ago rather than his actual platform that he campaigned on and people voted for
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Why is that weird? When he says communist things, it's weird to point it out?

What's weird would be, if you want less of a chance of having a communist in office, voting for the guy that's said his goal is the gov't taking over the means of production.
 
#4,879
#4,879
"His policy platform is actually not his extremely detailed policy platform, it is the worst tweet I can find from 2020" is kind of stupid to me and I assume to most voters, yes
 
#4,882
#4,882
NashVol11 said:
I don't think there is anything that needs clarifying, you were just misconstruing my post in bad faith again
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Seeing the gov't seize the means of production is the core of communism. He said it, despite the pretty lace he's trying to sew on it to get more people to vote for him.

Why would it be weirder to assume he's likely a communist based on what he's said, than to assume that he's not, based on what he's said?
NashVol11 said:
I don't know or care but I think it is pretty weird to suggest his politics are defined by some video from 5 years ago rather than his actual platform that he campaigned on and people voted for
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Why would it be weird to discount what he's historically said in favor of purely trusting what he says, trying to pander for votes? You're saying it's weird to consider what a politician has said historically, in favor of trusting everything a politician says in the moment?
 
#4,883
#4,883
Orange_Crush said:
Seeing the gov't seize the means of production is the core of communism. He said it, despite the pretty lace he's trying to sew on it to get more people to vote for him.

Why would it be weirder to assume he's likely a communist based on what he's said, than to assume that he's not, based on what he's said?
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Because this election happened in 2025 and he has a very detailed platform that has nothing to do with communism.

First you feigned surprise at me treating a bad faith post the way it deserves, and now you are apparently surprised that I haven't adopted an obvious smear campaign as my new opinion. Were you also surprised when conservatives didn't adopt the "Trump said inject disinfectant which means bleach" smear or any of several others as their opinion? I don't believe any of this is actually surprising to you if you engage in good faith for once
 
#4,884
#4,884
NashVol11 said:
"His policy platform is actually not his extremely detailed policy platform, it is the worst tweet I can find from 2020" is kind of stupid to me and I assume to most voters, yes
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Do you only judge Trump based on his written policy platform?
 
#4,887
#4,887
NashVol11 said:
Because this election happened in 2025 and he has a very detailed platform that has nothing to do with communism.

First you feigned surprise at me treating a bad faith post the way it deserves, and now you are apparently surprised that I haven't adopted an obvious smear campaign as my new opinion. Were you also surprised when conservatives didn't adopt the "Trump said inject disinfectant which means bleach" smear or any of several others as their opinion? I don't believe any of this is actually surprising to you if you engage in good faith for once
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I'm not asking you to adopt anything, speaking of strawmen.

You said:

NashVol11 said:
I don't know or care but I think it is pretty weird to suggest his politics are defined by some video from 5 years ago rather than his actual platform that he campaigned on and people voted for
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Now you seem to be moving the goalposts to "smear campaigns" comparable to Trump supposedly telling people to inject bleach, which as far as I can tell Trump never said.

Are you claiming that the video of him calling for govt control of the means of production is a deep fake smear campaign? Or are you claiming it strange that people would take him at his word that that's how he feels, despite the window dressings he's now painting to get elected:

Do you actually think it strange that people would allow historic communist rhetoric to color their view of a politician?

(I'm actually trying to deal in good faith. I'll ask you to do the same. For the record, I saw no bad faith from @Orangeslice13. He appeared to be asking for clarification, just as I am.)
 
#4,888
#4,888
NashVol11 said:
I don't judge him on (or care at all) what he said in 2011
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If he had explicitly came out and rejected his previous statements, I’d give him the benefit of the doubt. But rather his policies seem to double down on communist/socialist views when he speaks openly about buying up real estate in a government owned trust.
 
#4,889
#4,889
Orange_Crush said:
I'm not asking you to adopt anything, speaking of strawmen.
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I don't think that is very different from what I said about defining his politics, I'm not adopting that as my opinion of his politics or platform
Orange_Crush said:
You said:



Now you seem to be moving the goalposts to "smear campaigns" comparable to Trump supposedly telling people to inject bleach, which as far as I can tell Trump never said.

Are you claiming that the video of him calling for govt control of the means of production is a deep fake smear campaign? Or are you claiming it strange that people would take him at his word that that's how he feels, despite the window dressings he's now painting to get elected:

Do you actually think it strange that people would allow historic communist rhetoric to color their view of a politician?

(I'm actually trying to deal in good faith. I'll ask you to do the same.)
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I don't think the bolded is very good faith, and I think my point is pretty clear. The comment about what Trump said 4-5 years before running for office is another example; I don't really care. He used to be a Democrat, right?
 
#4,890
#4,890
Vol8188 said:
If he had explicitly came out and rejected his previous statements, I’d give him the benefit of the doubt. But rather his policies seem to double down on communist/socialist views when he speaks openly about buying up real estate in a government owned trust.
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"Socialist" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in "communist/socialist" IMO, I don't think anything in his platform really involves seizing the means of production or communism
 
#4,891
#4,891
NashVol11 said:
I don't think that is very different from what I said about defining his politics, I'm not adopting that as my opinion of his politics or platform

I don't think the bolded is very good faith, and I think my point is pretty clear. The comment about what Trump said 4-5 years before running for office is another example; I don't really care. He used to be a Democrat, right?
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Damn, man. How is it bad faith to ask for clarification?

Still can't see how I'm misrepresenting your comment. If you can show it, I'll apologize and regroup.

Either you are claiming the video is a fake, or you are saying that you think it strange that people would allow his (historic) communist rhetoric to inform their overall picture of him as a politician.

If David Duke ran for Mayor on a current platform that didn't mention race, you would think it strange that people would fear that he's still a racist ****head that can't be trusted in office?

Trump had 4 years between presidency and 2nd term run. If he'd ran on overall liberal policies, you'd have given him a clean slate and voted for him? Or you'd have looked at his history as a politician and let that help inform your views of him?

(And as 88 pointed out, his current policies align closely with his communist rhetoric.)
 
#4,892
#4,892
NashVol11 said:
"Socialist" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in "communist/socialist" IMO, I don't think anything in his platform really involves seizing the means of production or communism
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Seizing the means of production is obviously directly from the communist manifesto.

But socialism is obviously a step in the direction of communism, so the two go together.

When you support “democratic socialism” do you typically mean you want the government to own the grocery stores and the housing? Or do you just mean “I want healthcare and more assistance for those in need”
 
#4,894
#4,894
Vol8188 said:
Seizing the means of production is obviously directly from the communist manifesto.

But socialism is obviously a step in the direction of communism, so the two go together.
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Social Security is "a step in the direction of communism" from capitalism, but there are a lot more steps and that doesn't scare me.
Vol8188 said:
When you support “democratic socialism” do you typically mean you want the government to own the grocery stores and the housing? Or do you just mean “I want healthcare and more assistance for those in need”
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More the latter but I don't have a problem with his grocery store pilot program for example, and he doesn't seem very wedded to it
 
#4,895
#4,895
Vol8188 said:
Seizing the means of production is obviously directly from the communist manifesto.

But socialism is obviously a step in the direction of communism, so the two go together.

When you support “democratic socialism” do you typically mean you want the government to own the grocery stores and the housing? Or do you just mean “I want healthcare and more assistance for those in need”
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Socialism is communism with training wheels
 
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#4,896
#4,896
NashVol11 said:
Social Security is "a step in the direction of communism" from capitalism, but there are a lot more steps and that doesn't scare me.

More the latter but I don't have a problem with his grocery store pilot program for example, and he doesn't seem very wedded to it
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Last question. Do you believe he was a communist 5 years ago and has now just moved towards a more extreme version of socialism (not relative to communism but relative to what most believe they’re voting for when they hear socialism)?

Or do you think it was just something that sounds good to say when all your friends are far left or some other reason?
 
#4,897
#4,897
just bob said:
Like other communist leaders he is not and has never been poor, but uses the poor and manipulates them to gain power.
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I think Stalin was born poor. He started as a petty robber and then rose through the ranks with his brutality.
 
#4,899
#4,899
OrangeTsar said:
Socialism is communism with training wheels
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And it’s ultimately designed to fail. That’s one of the most amazing things of left wing ideology.

1. Control some aspect of the system
2. Failure
3. Use the failure as evidence for why you need greater control.

Basically the plot of Atlas Shrugged and you see it over and over again.

In “Capitalism a Love Story” Michael Moore shows a black guy with trisomy 21 and attempts to blame banks for lending to the man out of their evil greed.

Reality is left wing laws prohibited the banks from discriminating against him.
 
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#4,900
#4,900
OrangeTsar said:
I think Stalin was born poor. He started as a petty robber and then rose through the ranks with his brutality.
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Mao, Pol Pot and others used this tactic. It's popular among communists. We have that in our country right now besides this Mamdani dweeb. AOC is a rich kid who grew up in Yorktown while claiming to be a tough kid from the Bronx in which she briefly lived and doesn't remember any of it. It's a common communist tactic. Communism just a religion of death and destruction. People get caught up in the economic structure, but it's an all encompassing religion.
 
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