Iran

[85SugarVol]

The Islamic world by and large is garbage. They liked it because it was against us. Nothing more.

Iran has not improved upon anything since that time.

Being run by strong Islamic rule is nothing to be proud of. Like I said, you should be studied.

Do you know anything about the “Islamic World” in SE Asia? I’m guessing “no”…

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Most of the Middle East is Sunni while Iran is Shia. Sunni don't like Shia. You are full of it. This is why most of the Middle East is antagonistic against Iran. Sure, there are Shia people in Iraq or other groups in Syria that are probably pro-Iranian but most of the Middle East was not a fan.

Do you even know what separates Sunnis and Shias? It's not theology. It's not like they have different Qurans or believe in completely different things like say Mormons and other Christians. The Sunnis and Shias are separated by a disagreement over who should have taken over as leader of the Islamic Caliphate after the death of Prophet Muhammad nearly 1300 years ago.

Sunnis believed it should have been his second in command Abu Bakr while Shias believed it should have been his cousin Ali. This isn't a difference over theology. It's why there's no such thing as a Sunni mosque or Shia mosque. In countries where you find both (like America) they pray side by side.

So no you're absolutely wrong about this. There is no hatred or antagonism between the rank and file Sunni and Shia. Most Sunnis in the Middle East support Iran's government more than their own corrupt governments most of the time. The only groups that hate Iran is Israel, America, and their puppet regimes. The Sunni Muslim world in general loves and supports Iran.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I'd say the difference is the ruthless tyranny practiced by the regime. I understand that what the regime became is not what the people envisioned, to oversimplify things.

Ruthless tyranny to some. Islamic law to others.

I've yet to see any examples out of Iran where they are not following well established Islamic law. For example, some might say the death penalty for homosexuality is ruthless tyranny. But that's part of their religion. Same with the law mandating women cover their hair. You can't install a fundamentalist Islamic government and then get mad at them for following Islam.

If the Iranian people have a problem with Islam then they should have another popular revolution and install a secular government. But from what I've seen the Iranian government isn't doing anything a fundamentalist Muslim wouldn't approve of.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Read it carefully: my Japan analogy was used to point out the absurd oversimplification you made.

Well excuse me for assuming we were having a reasonable discussion. If all you were looking for was a gotcha moment then okay. You got it. A technical continuation of regime in a puppet role does contradict my point that you can declare victory as long as there isn't regime change.

Now where does this technicality get you? You feel good about yourself? You think you got me?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

The Islamic world by and large is garbage. They liked it because it was against us. Nothing more.

And why would they like that? Maybe it's because we've been killing and murdering their elected leaders while installing our puppets to oppress them and steal their resources.

At some point you would think Americans would figure out that everybody hates you maybe you're the problem and not everyone else.

 

[85SugarVol]

Ruthless tyranny to some. Islamic law to others.

I've yet to see any examples out of Iran where they are not following well established Islamic law. For example, some might say the death penalty for homosexuality is ruthless tyranny. But that's part of their religion. Same with the law mandating women cover their hair. You can't install a fundamentalist Islamic government and then get mad at them for following Islam.

If the Iranian people have a problem with Islam then they should have another popular revolution and install a secular government. But from what I've seen the Iranian government isn't doing anything a fundamentalist Muslim wouldn't approve of.

Funding terror proxies across the region is something a fundamentalist Muslim would approve of.
- D4H

Yikes.

 

[volfanhill]

Ruthless tyranny to some. Islamic law to others.

I've yet to see any examples out of Iran where they are not following well established Islamic law. For example, some might say the death penalty for homosexuality is ruthless tyranny. But that's part of their religion. Same with the law mandating women cover their hair. You can't install a fundamentalist Islamic government and then get mad at them for following Islam.

If the Iranian people have a problem with Islam then they should have another popular revolution and install a secular government. But from what I've seen the Iranian government isn't doing anything a fundamentalist Muslim wouldn't approve of.

So you support evil as long as they have dogma to support evil. If I had religion that said I can enslave back people. Then we enslave you. Blacks can't be mad. Rest of the world has to be good with it too.

 

[KB5252]

Ruthless tyranny to some. Islamic law to others.

I've yet to see any examples out of Iran where they are not following well established Islamic law. For example, some might say the death penalty for homosexuality is ruthless tyranny. But that's part of their religion. Same with the law mandating women cover their hair. You can't install a fundamentalist Islamic government and then get mad at them for following Islam.

If the Iranian people have a problem with Islam then they should have another popular revolution and install a secular government. But from what I've seen the Iranian government isn't doing anything a fundamentalist Muslim wouldn't approve of.

So you have no problem with the government doing what it does because it's sanctioned by their religion?

You would allow nothing of the sort from Christians though. And there was a time when this kind of behavior was demanded in the early church.

I find your defense of Islam strange given some of your criticisms of evangelical Christians. I'm struggling to place your frame of thought here. Not criticizing you necessarily, I just have a blind spot and don't seem to be able to view it the way you do.

 

[EasternVol]

Do you even know what separates Sunnis and Shias? It's not theology. It's not like they have different Qurans or believe in completely different things like say Mormons and other Christians. The Sunnis and Shias are separated by a disagreement over who should have taken over as leader of the Islamic Caliphate after the death of Prophet Muhammad nearly 1300 years ago.

Sunnis believed it should have been his second in command Abu Bakr while Shias believed it should have been his cousin Ali. This isn't a difference over theology. It's why there's no such thing as a Sunni mosque or Shia mosque. In countries where you find both (like America) they pray side by side.

So no you're absolutely wrong about this. There is no hatred or antagonism between the rank and file Sunni and Shia. Most Sunnis in the Middle East support Iran's government more than their own corrupt governments most of the time. The only groups that hate Iran is Israel, America, and their puppet regimes. The Sunni Muslim world in general loves and supports Iran.

All agreed until the last few sentences. Some, today mainly KSA, stoke anti-Shia sentiment, and rabble fall for it. It's been that way for ages. Many or most Sunnis certainly appreciate that Iran's government does something to support the oppressed in Palestine and elsewhere while their own governments do nothing. But their support of Iran's government isn't total.

 

[EasternVol]

Ruthless tyranny to some. Islamic law to others.

I've yet to see any examples out of Iran where they are not following well established Islamic law. For example, some might say the death penalty for homosexuality is ruthless tyranny. But that's part of their religion. Same with the law mandating women cover their hair. You can't install a fundamentalist Islamic government and then get mad at them for following Islam.

If the Iranian people have a problem with Islam then they should have another popular revolution and install a secular government. But from what I've seen the Iranian government isn't doing anything a fundamentalist Muslim wouldn't approve of.

Killing peaceful protesters by the score isn't Islamic law. Neither is framing people for captital crimes. Or supporting proxies that bomb bus stops. The list goes on.
They make what is preferable but not mandatory per the religion, like head scarves, mandatory per their whims. And if anyone objects they play the God card. KSA does similar.
They're tyrants as theocracies generally are.

 

[hog88]

All agreed until the last few sentences. Some, today mainly KSA, stoke anti-Shia sentiment, and rabble fall for it. It's been that way for ages. Many or most Sunnis certainly appreciate that Iran's government does something to support the oppressed in Palestine and elsewhere while their own governments do nothing. But their support of Iran's government isn't total.

They keep funding Hamas so no, they aren’t supporting the oppressed Palestinians.

 

[LouderVol]

Do you even know what separates Sunnis and Shias? It's not theology. It's not like they have different Qurans or believe in completely different things like say Mormons and other Christians. The Sunnis and Shias are separated by a disagreement over who should have taken over as leader of the Islamic Caliphate after the death of Prophet Muhammad nearly 1300 years ago.

Sunnis believed it should have been his second in command Abu Bakr while Shias believed it should have been his cousin Ali. This isn't a difference over theology. It's why there's no such thing as a Sunni mosque or Shia mosque. In countries where you find both (like America) they pray side by side.

So no you're absolutely wrong about this. There is no hatred or antagonism between the rank and file Sunni and Shia. Most Sunnis in the Middle East support Iran's government more than their own corrupt governments most of the time. The only groups that hate Iran is Israel, America, and their puppet regimes. The Sunni Muslim world in general loves and supports Iran.

you realize that split is still a pretty big deal to them right? We are in the political forum, one of the biggest fights we have here, and in the rest of the country, is exactly that "minor" disagreement the Muslims have: who leads them.

they have been fighting each other since the very start. Ali was assassinated by the Sunni, and there were wars between the multiple different wars between caliphates based purely on who was in charge of the religion. The Sunnis won early which is why they make up most of the population now.

there is little antagonism because the Shia make up such a small percentage of the total, and most of their population is either in Shia controlled territory or other secular nations. there is very little interaction between the two, and when there is it is typically dominated by one of the other and the locals just have to accept the rule. it is not a situation of "separate but equals" and more of "you stay over there and we will tolerate you"

 

[LouderVol]

It doesn’t have to be a matter of faith. The IAEA exists. Satellite imagery exists. Intelligence exists.

Without the means to enrich, the uranium itself lacks value. Have a nuclear reactor is not the same thing.

Iran hardens stance against IAEA and its chief in wake of US-Israel attacks

Tehran has rejected request for Rafael Grossi to visit nuclear facilities bombed by Israel and US during conflict.

www.aljazeera.com

Iran is already removing one of your safety nets you were counting on @Vol8188

"Iranian lawmakers on Wednesday voted in favour of a bill to suspend cooperation with the IAEA, citing Israel’s June 13 attack on Iran and later strikes by the US on nuclear facilities"

As I told you, they are right back to attempting to build nukes.

 

[Vol8188]

Iran hardens stance against IAEA and its chief in wake of US-Israel attacks

Tehran has rejected request for Rafael Grossi to visit nuclear facilities bombed by Israel and US during conflict.

www.aljazeera.com

Iran is already removing one of your safety nets you were counting on @Vol8188

"Iranian lawmakers on Wednesday voted in favour of a bill to suspend cooperation with the IAEA, citing Israel’s June 13 attack on Iran and later strikes by the US on nuclear facilities"

As I told you, they are right back to attempting to build nukes.

Iran hardens stance against IAEA and its chief in wake of US-Israel attacks

Tehran has rejected request for Rafael Grossi to visit nuclear facilities bombed by Israel and US during conflict.

www.aljazeera.com

Iran is already removing one of your safety nets you were counting on @Vol8188

"Iranian lawmakers on Wednesday voted in favour of a bill to suspend cooperation with the IAEA, citing Israel’s June 13 attack on Iran and later strikes by the US on nuclear facilities"

As I told you, they are right back to attempting to build nukes.

Give it time to play out. We can always fly over again if needed. They’re going to play tough for negotiations. But in the end I think they cave in and allow inspectors.

Give the dust time to settle

 

[hog88]

Iran hardens stance against IAEA and its chief in wake of US-Israel attacks

Tehran has rejected request for Rafael Grossi to visit nuclear facilities bombed by Israel and US during conflict.

www.aljazeera.com

Iran is already removing one of your safety nets you were counting on @Vol8188

"Iranian lawmakers on Wednesday voted in favour of a bill to suspend cooperation with the IAEA, citing Israel’s June 13 attack on Iran and later strikes by the US on nuclear facilities"

As I told you, they are right back to attempting to build nukes.

Iran's parliament or whatever they call it is nothing but a collection of figureheads, the Ayatollah will decide.

 

[Smokey123]

you realize that split is still a pretty big deal to them right? We are in the political forum, one of the biggest fights we have here, and in the rest of the country, is exactly that "minor" disagreement the Muslims have: who leads them.

they have been fighting each other since the very start. Ali was assassinated by the Sunni, and there were wars between the multiple different wars between caliphates based purely on who was in charge of the religion. The Sunnis won early which is why they make up most of the population now.

there is little antagonism because the Shia make up such a small percentage of the total, and most of their population is either in Shia controlled territory or other secular nations. there is very little interaction between the two, and when there is it is typically dominated by one of the other and the locals just have to accept the rule. it is not a situation of "separate but equals" and more of "you stay over there and we will tolerate you"

Dude reads wiki one time and thinks he’s an expert. Sunni’s also face a lot of discrimination in Iran

 

[KB5252]

I find some of these arguments exhausting. People have similar wants needs and desires. We are all way much more the same than we are different. To pretend otherwise is just silly.

The divisions of Sunni and Shia are deeply ingrained. Blood feuds many centuries old have been fought over this division largely by leaders seeking monetary, political and or religious power.

They often exist peacefully side by side but in times of conflict or disagreement they draw sides based on their traditions.

Again they are really no different that the rest of us, but their religious and political structures are more intertwined.

The world loves a villain, and we've done plenty to earn that moniker. Our relationships with many in that area are problematic, the Sauds are oppressive, as are just about every other ruling family in that area. The Ayatollahs as well. But there is an understanding between all of the ruling factions in that area, think of them like an organized crime family. Everyone is expected to do what is good for business, everyone is on board, the only outlier is Iran. And when Iran sponsored the attacks on shipping the line was crossed.

Iran appears to have been given a another chance by it's neighbors, they are the ones calling the shots in that area, we are just the enforcers. Nothing happens in that area without their approval, reluctant or otherwise. You can take that to the bank, they know they have the world by the balls and are working to ensure they keep themselves relevant post oil.

 

[LouderVol]

Iran's parliament or whatever they call it is nothing but a collection of figureheads, the Ayatollah will decide.

I think its like the USSR. the "parliament" only gets behind an idea or passes it after the executive has approved it.

 

[hog88]

I think its like the USSR. the "parliament" only gets behind an idea or passes it after the executive has approved it.

Or is used to float trial balloons to gauge reaction before a decision is made.

 

[Vol8188]

Or is used to float trial balloons to gauge reaction before a decision is made.

Postering for sure. Agree to inspections or the bombs return. Should be easy enough to reach a long term deal. Especially given their complete lack of leverage

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Do you know anything about the “Islamic World” in SE Asia? I’m guessing “no”…

What about it? Traveling to Zamboanga going a great idea. There are other examples as well.

What you got?

 

[just bob]

And why would they like that? Maybe it's because we've been killing and murdering their elected leaders while installing our puppets to oppress them and steal their resources.

At some point you would think Americans would figure out that everybody hates you maybe you're the problem and not everyone else.

You should go to Iran. You can be the black Malcolm Caldwell. lmao

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Public service announcement on the difference between

Rational and Rationale

You're welcome.
*Not "your".

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Well, let's see which one gets smoked first
The old dude wearing a curtain or the old dude with the comb over.
I know who I'll place my bet on.

LMAO. That is all.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Public service announcement on the difference between

Rational and Rationale

You're welcome.
*Not "your".

View attachment 752193

Thanks. I used the wrong one in a earlier post. It didn't look right, but I didn't bother to look it up.