Iran

#6,301
#6,301
lawgator1 said:
Trump is just very naive and unsophisticated in these sorts of things. He blathers, struts, and seemingly can't understand why these other actors do things he views as irrational, notwithstanding their decades upon decades of acting in ways that are irrational to the West.

Trump is easily frustrated by people that do not do what he wants or directs them to do.
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LOL
 
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#6,302
#6,302
StarRaider said:
Patton's Operation Overlord assignment:

While General George Patton was not directly involved in the Normandy landings on D-Day, he played a crucial role in the deception campaign that helped ensure the success of the invasion. He was not part of the initial assault force, but his presence and reputation were used to mislead German forces about the intended landing site.
Here's a more detailed explanation:

Deception Plan:
The Allies used a deception plan called "Operation Fortitude" to convince German commanders that the main Allied invasion would occur at Pas de Calais, rather than Normandy.

Patton's Role:
Patton was chosen to lead a fictitious "phantom" army (First US Army Group (FUSAG)) positioned near Pas de Calais.

Purpose of Deception:
By making the Germans believe Patton's forces were the main threat, the Allies hoped to draw German troops and resources away from Normandy, making the actual landings easier.

Patton's Absence from D-Day:
Patton was intentionally kept away from Normandy on D-Day to reinforce the deception. He was later given command of the Third US Army, which played a key role in the breakout from Normandy and the subsequent advance into France.

Effectiveness of Deception:
The deception was highly successful. German commanders were convinced that the main Allied attack would come at Pas de Calais, leading them to hold back significant forces from Normandy.
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That only worked because the Germans were scared to death of Patton, unlike the rest of the Ally general staff. Patton was unpredictable, his men would do anything for him and he was an unstoppable force when he got rolling. He wasnt an armchair general who played politics, he was a field-marshal who destroyed his enemies.

Hitler was running around with Patton owning a lot of real estate in his head. "Sir, General Bradley has moved 3 divisions into Germany" - Who cares, WHERE IS PATTON? lol
 
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#6,303
#6,303
SpaceCoastVol said:
But wait a minute... according to our resident Persian, they WANT regime change. OR are they naive enough to think the religious zealots that have had their thumb on their lives for the last 40+ years will somehow see another way?



Which is it?
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It's both, I believe he's right, there are a lot of people that want change. But I believe there are a lot of people that are behind the regime too.

They are dug in and have entrenched themselves, plus sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't...... As the saying goes.

Any regime change is likely to be hard fought and bloody unfortunately. I don't think the ayatollahs are just going to relinquish power peacefully.
 
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#6,304
#6,304
SpaceCoastVol said:
How is it not in our best interests? These zealots have been chanting (and practicing/striving for) Death to America for a long long time. They have been killing Americans all over the world for decades. Let's remove them from the equation and see what the bottom line is. If @Persian Vol is right, the populace will embrace it and elect more moderate leadership. If not, then the people are to blame. It is absolutely in our best interests to kill these people. You are too soft to look at the steer before you shoot it in the head, but you surely like that steak when it is on the plate.

Make the CIA great again.
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I'm not opposed to helping assassinate, under the table, leaders but as you say DECADES of chants, no matter the regime changes, have come from all corners of the ME.

Much of it was undercover in Saudi Arabia and "tolerated" if not encouraged by the House of Saud itself, but that's a Cold War for you. They've let it stay cold, we've seen little terrorism, we've crippled ISIS (or whatever it's called now,) and many previously volatile regimes are, at least on the surface, somewhat friendly. Radical imams still teach death to America in Saudi Arabia every day but the Saudis keep them from acting for the most part with brutality and good intelligence which they probably share, under the table, with us.

I don't believe for one moment Iran would welcome anything close to democracy with open arms. (Thanks, Dick Cheney for getting rich while our returning soldiers suffer to this day from that BS.)

I don't believe there's a successful way to overcome the Revolutionary Guard in Iran and establish any govt remotely friendly to America. I just don't see a friendly face anywhere in Iran ready to step in. History has shown us in the region over and over and over that the populations really don't embrace non-Islamic ideas like democracy. They like theocracy a lot over there.

As for the CIA, we completely agree. I don't need to know, I don't want to know how they maintain my family's safety.
 
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#6,305
#6,305
Vol8188 said:
There have been various US sanctions dating back to at least February. It sounds like he is going to loosen those.

So once again, how is this significantly worse?
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China and Iran will both have more money.

This seems like we are just resetting on another deal with Iran and in a couple years when its clear it didn't stop Iran from doing bad actions, we will be right back here.
 
#6,306
#6,306
Firebirdparts said:
So I took the opposite view on this. It's an assassination no matter how many times you do it. It's really up to the receiving party to take offense and start a war, but they just don't have the beans. This is kind of like terrorism except the roles are reversed.

It used to be that the United States really just wouldn't do it. [CIA motto: Proudly assassinating Fidel Castro since 1959 - Dave Barry]. You can blubber some lie about this, but I'm right and we really just didn't do it. That changed gradually over time and now we just do it lots. Obama assassinated about 4000 people. He's the record holder by far. he said of himself "who knew I would be so good at killing people?" Everybody he killed, as far as I know, was Muslim. There are people who think Obama is Muslim but I just doubt it. My opinion. I don't know the guy.
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yeah, you are just playing semantics.

Assassinations ordered by the president, carried out by the military, in a foreign nation, against foreign nationals sounds more like war than spycraft. I don't care who does it.
 
#6,308
#6,308
Gandalf said:
That only worked because the Germans were scared to death of Patton, unlike the rest of the Ally general staff. Patton was unpredictable, his men would do anything for him and he was an unstoppable force when he got rolling. He wasnt an armchair general who played politics, he was a field-marshal who destroyed his enemies.

Hitler was running around with Patton owning a lot of real estate in his head. "Sir, General Bradley has moved 3 divisions into Germany" - Who cares, WHERE IS PATTON? lol
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Model even claimed Eisenhower wouldn't be stupid enough to allow Montgomery to lead an operation ahead of Patton, but that's exactly what Eisenhower did with "Market Garden", although there was probably pressure from Churchill on that operation
 
#6,310
#6,310
LouderVol said:
yeah, you are just playing semantics.

Assassinations ordered by the president, carried out by the military, in a foreign nation, against foreign nationals sounds more like war than spycraft. I don't care who does it.
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Which assassinations are we talking about here? The ones Israel performed, the ones Israel performed, or some other less recent assassinations?
 
#6,311
#6,311
LouderVol said:
China and Iran will both have more money.

This seems like we are just resetting on another deal with Iran and in a couple years when its clear it didn't stop Iran from doing bad actions, we will be right back here.
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lol they will have more money how?
 
#6,313
#6,313
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I'm not a cultist. Trump is a govt official in a govt that's completely out of control. He's proven himself to be part of the problem with continued overreach, etc. He's also tried to decrease the Federal bloat more than any POTUS in my lifetime.
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Have to disagree with you there in that his budget priorities would both wipe out the recent reduction in the federal workforce and yet again balloon the deficit and the debt.
 
#6,315
#6,315
McDad said:
This illustrates the level of common sense over there. Fly by and rock the wings. That'll show em.
They should just drop bombs made of tissue paper in perpetuity.
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Wasn't there a Star Trek where two warring planets or something had a computer working out "war attacks" and the populations stepped into some kind of "death chamber" to match what the computer said were casualties?

I suppose the "woke" antiwar message of the day but I think I recall an episode like that.
 
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#6,316
#6,316
lawgator1 said:
Have to disagree with you there in that his budget priorities would both wipe out the recent reduction in the federal workforce and yet again balloon the deficit and the debt.
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But there was effort, at least cursory effort, at cutting away Education, etc which the Federal govt has no business regulating for all states.

Most POTUS have done nothing but continually increase the Federal overreach into what should be handled at the state level or lower.
 
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#6,317
#6,317
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I'm sure the Japanese in Hiroshima and Nagasaki aren't thankful.

You need to stop being so selfish and think about other human beings for once.
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Truman showed restraint. My Father, who fought in WWII, thought he should've given Tokyo a week to evacuate then leveled it and set Japan back to 1900 or beyond.
 
#6,318
#6,318
LouderVol said:
yeah, I mean at least if Trump's sanctions were actually effective. If you believe they weren't, then I guess not.
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So they’re no wealthier than they were before he took office? That’s what I’m missing.

These were new sanctions under Trump. He’s taking those back. And you’re comparing that to the Obama deal?

Seems like a bad joke
 
#6,324
#6,324
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Wasn't there a Star Trek where two warring planets or something had a computer working out "war attacks" and the populations stepped into some kind of "death chamber" to match what the computer said were casualties?

I suppose the "woke" antiwar message of the day but I think I recall an episode like that.
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I wouldn't know because I am not a nerd. ;)
 
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