Iran

#5,476
#5,476
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
LOL. Say hi to another forever war.

Look for troops on the ground soon and Trump getting us into a decade long occupation of another Middle Eastern country on behalf of our bosses in Israel.
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Good morning! Welp. Wall street doesn't seem too worried about it. And if there was ever a bigger bunch of Chicken Littles they are it.


Calm the **** down.
 
#5,477
#5,477
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I agree but isn't Iran not a rational actor but instead religious fanatics. I mean that's what you've been trying to convince me all this time. That we have to act against them because they're not a normal state interested in normal geopolitics. If they're so crazy why would Russia and China play with that fire? Wouldn't they join us in neutralizing an irrational actor who would use nukes to bring about a religious Armageddon?

This is why the Iranians are religious fanatics holds no weight. Russia and China wouldn't support them if they were irrational actors. It's obvious Iran is a rational player on the world stage and acting like they would use nuclear weapons in an irrational manner is nothing more than fear mongering by those who want to start another war.
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How have China and Russia supported Iran in this current mess? that support has been conditional AF in the past.

Iran has been irrational. China and Russia used them, because as long as they supplied the arms or money that irrationally was directed elsewhere. to quote Ballerina "Its better to have them in the tent, and pissing on those outside; than to have them outside and pissing into the tent." both countries have had issues with their own Islamic extremists, which is likely why you haven't seen either jump in.

its not a rational act to turn the Houthis loose to attack any and all shipping in the area. that is another reason I think China and Russia have stayed out of it, both of them lost ships/crews to the Houthis.

and I am not for our involvement at all. I hate what Trump has done here. it will just be another mess that gets us more in debt, with no real end, and no real achievable goal. hopefully we don't lose any more lives or freedoms, but I have little hope we maintain either.
 
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#5,478
#5,478
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
We deposed their secular democratically elected government and installed a brutal dictatorship so British Petroleum could have access to their oil. This is well established history.

The brutal dictatorship of the Shah was the direct catalyst that led to the Islamic revolution in Iran that has ruled for the last 40+ years.
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Maybe we can add them to the reparations list.
 
#5,480
#5,480
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Because we started the beef by deposing their secular democratically elected government. You can't pick a fight with someone then get mad when they defend themselves. Iran didn't have animosity for us until we decided to mess with them.

Stop messing with them and we can have good relationships with them like Russia and China. Two non-Islamic countries who don't seem to have any issues with Iran.

It turns out Islam isn't why Iran hates us but our actions when we attacked them first.
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🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤣 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤡
 
#5,481
#5,481
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
We deposed their secular democratically elected government and installed a brutal dictatorship so British Petroleum could have access to their oil. This is well established history.

The brutal dictatorship of the Shah was the direct catalyst that led to the Islamic revolution in Iran that has ruled for the last 40+ years.
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These claims aren’t remotely true. You seem to be confusing 53 and 79. In 79 Iran was very secular. Which is what lead to an Islamic backlash.

We didn’t install some religious fanatic. The Iranians did that.
 
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#5,482
#5,482
MemphisVol77 said:
They'd already had a Shah. We re-empowered their Shah after western influence, particularly US, pressured the USSR into giving up their occupation of Iran

we did not change the format of their government or constitution. The new bosses had the same rank, positions, and titles as the previous bosses

which did not change during or due to periods of western influence

And 25 years later it's all our fault.

D4H, Most disingenuous poster on VolNation
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LG, turbomonty and swamprat enter the chat.
 
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#5,484
#5,484
SpaceCoastVol said:
Good morning! Welp. Wall street doesn't seem too worried about it. And if there was ever a bigger bunch of Chicken Littles they are it.


Calm the **** down.
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I am actually surprised because Wall Street overreacts to everything. It really isn't a great barometer on the economy unless you calculate data over a 3-month or longer period.
 
#5,485
#5,485
KB5252 said:
I never never attempted to convince you they were religious fanatics. Just the largest state sponsor of terror, though I do believe they are religious fanatics. Their rhetoric is pretty straight forward. The fact they are fanatics really isn't important.

Now the Russia and China question is very obvious. Iran serves multiple purposes. Below market oil, a counter in the region to apply pressure on the US and thereby a challenge to the existing world order.

Russia and China absolutely would look the other way hold their nose and do support them because they serve a purpose. Just like they have cozied up to regimes in Africa that have killed and raped based on tribal ancestry. They have resources China wants and needs.

Russia and China aren't looking around the world and seeking out the moral and responsible among us. They are meeting needs with strategic alliances, not putting together a league of the virtuous. Don't you get it, they are no different than us. They will play nice and ask until they are told no one too many times then they will take it.

I'm not saying we are always right, we've done plenty wrong.
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eh, we still have that covered. we created a terrorist group so strong they drove both the USSR and US out of Afghanistan. strong enough to stand on their own for more than 50 years against the two most powerful nations in the world.
 
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#5,488
#5,488
Did ya'll see that they hit a command center in the center of Tehran? They should be releasing the pictures of the milk factory it was under at any minute.
 
#5,489
#5,489
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I don't support the death penalty in any circumstance. My point there once again was to show there were other countries doing what Iran does but yet nobody is advocating the we attack the religious fanatics in Uganda.

Also the Ugandan law was inspired by evangelical missionaries from the United States that were spouting anti-gay rhetoric in Uganda. So you can thank our Christian right here in America for giving Uganda the idea to kill gays.
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It also might have something to do with this unless you think somehow the USA helped write the Bible and Paul's letter to the Romans. There are also some verses in the Old Testament (notably Leviticus) that are opposed to homosexuality as well.

Romans Chapter 1:

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 
#5,491
#5,491
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Last I checked Japan didn't drop a nuke on us before we dropped two on them. You can't justify using nuclear weapons in response to conventional weapons by your opponent. If that counted as provocation then Russia could argue they can use nukes against Ukraine because Ukraine used conventional weapons against them.
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This is one of your more ridiculous ramblings.
 
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#5,492
#5,492
EasternVol said:
They've based a whole lot of their foreign policy on opposing Israel. They're not likely to be very cordial as long as our special relationship there continues.
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and Saudi Arabia. Don't underestimate how much Saudi Arabia is pushing USA and Israel into these actions. The Houthis were the enemies of the Saudis.
 
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#5,494
#5,494
volbound1700 said:
and Saudi Arabia. Don't underestimate how much Saudi Arabia is pushing USA and Israel into these actions. The Houthis were the enemies of the Saudis.
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Nah. That's way too much of a stretch. I don't think Bibi or Trump either one cares about what the Saudis think in this particular case. They certainly aren't pulling any strings.
 
#5,495
#5,495
SpaceCoastVol said:
Nah. That's way too much of a stretch. I don't think Bibi or Trump either one cares about what the Saudis think in this particular case. They certainly aren't pulling any strings.
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Saudi Arabia has had a part in everything we did in the Middle East since 1991 Desert Storm.

They were actively fighting Iran in Yemen via proxies leading up to this conflict.

Even Osama Bin Laden an Al Quadi were enemies of the Saudis. Sure, Bin Laden was from Saudi Arabia but that didn't mean he was on friendly terms with their government.
 
#5,496
#5,496
volbound1700 said:
Saudi Arabia has had a part in everything we did in the Middle East since 1991 Desert Storm.

They were actively fighting Iran in Yemen via proxies leading up to this conflict.

Even Osama Bin Laden an Al Quadi were enemies of the Saudis. Sure, Bin Laden was from Saudi Arabia but that didn't mean he was on friendly terms with their government.
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I get that. But that was then. Trump isn't kissing the HOS ring, and Bibi sure as hell isn't.
 
#5,497
#5,497
SpaceCoastVol said:
I get that. But that was then. Trump isn't kissing the HOS ring, and Bibi sure as hell isn't.
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20+ years ago, half the Middle East would have attacked Israel over this bombing of Iran. Right now, not only are nations staying out of it, they are also providing minor help to Israel. It is clear that Saudi Arabia is the causation.

Saudi Arabia is the real leader in the Middle East. They and Qatar, UAE, and Bahrain make up the Gulf States and align together. Being the home of Sunni Islam, they can also influence nations like Jordan, Egypt, Syria, etc. There are proxy wars between Iran and Saudi Arabia going on all over the Middle East in Syria (Saudi side recently won), Lebanon, Yemen, formerly in Iraq, etc.
 
#5,498
#5,498
NashVol11 said:
My question every time someone responds to objections to the killing of tens of thousands of innocents by saying "gay rights"

Tell me more about this "moral superiority"

geopoliticaleconomy.com

Poll: 82% of Israelis want to expel Palestinians from Gaza; 47% want to kill every man, woman, child - Geopolitical Economy Report

Poll found 82% of full citizens of Israel want expel Palestinians from Gaza. 47% support killing every single man, woman, and child in Gaza. Ex PM Ehud Olmert admitted Israel is waging a "war of extermination: the indiscriminate, unrestrained, cruel, and criminal killing of civilians".
geopoliticaleconomy.com geopoliticaleconomy.com
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Where’s your comparison to make the judgement.
With Gay rights we compared both sides and both Iran and Gaza are big time moral losers. Now you want to deflect by posting an article about one side without posting the other.
It’s no surprise to anyone that Israel is tired of the **** after propping Gaza up for 15 years just to have them be more dependent on Israel and than they were before. And got attacked for it. So not at all shocking they want to live in safety by removing a threat.

Let’s see your study on the attitude from the other side. I’m betting it’s worse than that of the Israelis
 
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