Iran

[Persian Vol]

The most likely answer for they haven’t exceeded that amount is capability.

Why enrich to 60% if not to make a bomb? It seems like a simple question. One you’re not able to answer because there’s no other explanation.

Iran’s had the technical capability to enrich past 60% for years, even the IAEA has confirmed that. The fact they haven’t done it shows restraint or strategic signaling, not inability. As for why 60%? ,medical isotope production, political leverage, and a response to JCPOA collapse and Israeli sabotage are well-documented explanations. You just don’t like them.

 

[82_VOL_83]

And, of course, Iran is SOOOOOOOO transparent to the world about their nuclear program, the world should trust them?

This is the problem. If you paint yourself with violent rhetoric AND you start developing uranium beyond peaceful levels AND you refuse to be transparent about your nuclear weapons, research, or whatever you're doing...... DON'T BE SURPRISED THE WORLD DOESN'T TRUST YOU.

Talk like a rogue nation, enrich uranium beyond peaceful levels, and keep everyone in the dark as much as possible but still complain when the world doesn't trust you? C'mon.

FAFO

 

[Orange_Crush]

Iran briefly enriched a small amount to 83.6% but didn’t stockpile it or sustain that level, even the IAEA confirmed it. Rhetoric aside, policy should be based on actions, not slogans. You don’t launch wars over what someone chants, you do it over verified intent and capability.

It's based on both, as it should be.

 

[Sandman 423]

Just to state the obvious... Given Trump's "2 week" deadline, that means he doesn't want to bomb Iran and just wants to avoid the decision. This is what he does... What he always does. I think it's highly likely we will not do it... For better or worse, because as we all know...

View attachment 750012

Fuehrer Taco?

 

[Persian Vol]

You 100% are attempting to ignore and minimize their actions.

Your entire argument is a joke. Because everything you’re saying is admitting the goal was a nuclear weapon. “They did it for leverage” “they did it for negotiation” “they did it for deterrence”….

What’s the leverage? “We will make a bomb if you don’t do x”

Whats the negotiation? “We will make a bombs if you don’t do x”

What’s the deference? “If you do x, we will make a bomb”

You’re misinterpreting the argument and building a straw man. No one said Iran is threatening “we will make a bomb if you don’t do X.” Leverage, deterrence, and negotiation in this context mean creating pressure, not declaring intent to build a weapon. Countries use provocative actions all the time to gain diplomatic footing without crossing red lines. If Iran truly intended to make a bomb, they’ve had years and the technical ability to go beyond 60%, but they haven’t. That matters if we’re being objective.

 

[Vol8188]

Iran’s had the technical capability to enrich past 60% for years, even the IAEA has confirmed that. The fact they haven’t done it shows restraint or strategic signaling, not inability. As for why 60%? ,medical isotope production, political leverage, and a response to JCPOA collapse and Israeli sabotage are well-documented explanations. You just don’t like them.

One day you’ll accept your homeland has agency and stop blaming the world. In another thread your blaming America for Iran installing a theocracy, in this thread you’re blaming Israel and the US for Iran attempting to make nuclear weapons.

There’s no medical isotope that requires 60% enrichment. This is as bad your argument about Biden and his PSA levels.

 

[Orangeburst]

I respectfully disagree. The B2 is the only aircraft currently rated to deliver that ordinance. Other aircraft could be outfitted to do so if desired.

Altitude and speed will have an impact on effectiveness of a MOP, so the kinetic energy of a drop from 30k’ and 300 mph will be less than 50k’ and 600 mph.

 

[Persian Vol]

“Wait until they have nuclear weapons, and then attack them”- Persian Vol

Lmfao are you thinking any of this through before hitting reply?

That’s not what I said. I’m saying verify before launching wars, not “wait for nukes.” We’ve seen what acting on assumptions leads to.

Iraq, remember?

 

[Persian Vol]

Even *if* we didn't have intel that you and I don't have (neither about what may have been done to slow the enrichment process, not about their current nearness to a bomb), one has to consider the costs of inaction vs action. Iran with Nuclear bombs is also all of their sponsored terrorist groups with nuclear bombs, as well as a nuclear arms race across the ME.

You have to eventually take care of the problem.

The cost of inaction matters, but so does the cost of acting on assumptions. We’ve seen where “they might have a nuke” logic leads. Unless there’s verified intel of actual weaponization, you’re not solving a problem, you’re risking creating a bigger one.

 

[Orange_Crush]

That’s not what I said. I’m saying verify before launching wars, not “wait for nukes.” We’ve seen what acting on assumptions leads to.

Iraq, remember?

What intel does the administration have and not have?

 

[Orange_Crush]

The cost of inaction matters, but so does the cost of acting on assumptions. We’ve seen where “they might have a nuke” logic leads. Unless there’s verified intel of actual weaponization, you’re not solving a problem, you’re risking creating a bigger one.

What intel does the administration have and not have?

 

[Persian Vol]

If you have a deranged individual who's been terrorizing a neighborhood for decades, claiming he's building bombs to blow up the neighborhood and law enforcement, and you have the receipts for bomb materials, you don't wait for them to prove it loudly. You go in and prevent it from happening. If they are holed up in the home with guns and resistance, you go in hard.

That analogy only works if you ignore the IAEA, international oversight, and the actual evidence. Iran may talk like a threat, but it’s been under constant inspection and hasn’t crossed the weapons threshold in 20+ years. Acting on fear instead of facts is how we got Iraq, and that “go in hard” logic gave us endless war with no WMDs.

 

[Vol8188]

You’re misinterpreting the argument and building a straw man. No one said Iran is threatening “we will make a bomb if you don’t do X.” Leverage, deterrence, and negotiation in this context mean creating pressure, not declaring intent to build a weapon. Countries use provocative actions all the time to gain diplomatic footing without crossing red lines. If Iran truly intended to make a bomb, they’ve had years and the technical ability to go beyond 60%, but they haven’t. That matters if we’re being objective.

It’s not a strawman, it’s your argument. The threat is obviously that they’ll build a nuclear weapon. That’s the only reason the world would care if they enrich uranium. So when you say it’s for “leverage” the only reason that would provide “leverage” is because of weapons. If it were for “medical isotopes” as you jokingly claimed, please, please inform us all of what political leverage that would gain?

If the implied threat of highly enriched uranium is anything other than a bomb, please do inform us.

 

[MontyPython]

There are research and medical purposes I believe.

29 April 2021
Robert E. Kelley

On 13 April, Iran announced its intention to enrich uranium to 60 per cent U-235. This was characterized by Iran as a response to a sabotage of its vast underground enrichment cascades at Natanz two days before. The move comes against the backdrop of sensitive negotiations happening in Vienna aimed at rescuing the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), and bringing the United States back into compliance with the deal.

Iran had already been producing uranium enriched to just under 20 per cent (around 19.5 per cent) following a decision in December 2020, a deliberate step away from compliance with the JCPOA’s terms. Enrichment to 60 per cent, however, is a significant escalation in enrichment operations.

Once it has been enriched beyond 20 per cent, uranium enters a different nuclear materials safeguards accounting category: highly enriched uranium (HEU). Although under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) it is legal for any country to produce HEU, the JCPOA limits Iran’s uranium enrichment to 3.67 per cent.

Iran’s decision has also inevitably drawn international attention because it brings the country so close to producing 90 per cent-enriched uranium, which is generally considered weapons-grade.

A political message​

Uranium enriched to 60 per cent cannot be used to make a useful nuclear explosive device, and Iran has no other realistic use for this material.

Nevertheless, 60 per cent was not an arbitrary choice. Cascades of centrifuges are designed to enrich uranium in steps; Iran’s centrifuges are likely set up to enrich up to 20 per cent, from 20 to 60 per cent, and from 60 to 90 per cent. Assuming the 60 per cent-enriched uranium is stored in the form of uranium hexafluoride (UF6) gas—and there would be no point in Iran converting it to any other chemical form—the enrichment step from 60 per cent-enriched to weapons-grade uranium is very short.


This strongly suggests that Iran’s decision was intended to send a political message: ‘We have gone as far as we can go in response to provocations without producing weapons-grade uranium.’

 

[Vol8188]

That’s not what I said. I’m saying verify before launching wars, not “wait for nukes.” We’ve seen what acting on assumptions leads to.

Iraq, remember?

You said “lay a nuclear egg” (seems fair to assume that means make a nuclear weapon). What do you still need verified?

And what specifically would you wait for if not for to have proven nuclear capabilities?

There’s zero assumption here

 

[Persian Vol]

And, of course, Iran is SOOOOOOOO transparent to the world about their nuclear program, the world should trust them?

This is the problem. If you paint yourself with violent rhetoric AND you start developing uranium beyond peaceful levels AND you refuse to be transparent about your nuclear weapons, research, or whatever you're doing...... DON'T BE SURPRISED THE WORLD DOESN'T TRUST YOU.

Talk like a rogue nation, enrich uranium beyond peaceful levels, and keep everyone in the dark as much as possible but still complain when the world doesn't trust you? C'mon.

Iran absolutely deserves scrutiny, but let’s be clear: they’re under constant IAEA inspection, and enrichment beyond 3.67% only began after the U.S. broke the JCPOA. Trust isn’t the standard for war, verified intent and violations are. And so far, there’s no proof of a weapons program, just suspicion dressed up as certainty.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You’re misinterpreting the argument and building a straw man. No one said Iran is threatening “we will make a bomb if you don’t do X.” Leverage, deterrence, and negotiation in this context mean creating pressure, not declaring intent to build a weapon. Countries use provocative actions all the time to gain diplomatic footing without crossing red lines. If Iran truly intended to make a bomb, they’ve had years and the technical ability to go beyond 60%, but they haven’t. That matters if we’re being objective.

You admit Iran's world rhetoric is inflammatory.
I assume you admit that Iran has funded terrorists.
You admit that Iran enriches uranium to 60% and has shown it can go even higher.

Somehow you want to write this off as posturing? Posturing to who and for what?

Can you cite a plausible reason for this posturing? Any endgame if it's just posturing? Any gains they've made in the region (beyond various sanctions which have been applied, removed, revised, etc.)

What are you suggesting Iran is gaining by this "leverage move" of enriching uranium?

 

[MontyPython]

I respectfully disagree. The B2 is the only aircraft currently rated/certified to deliver that ordinance. Other aircraft could be outfitted to do so if desired.

AI Overview

The GBU-57, also known as the Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP), is a massive bunker-busting bomb exclusively carried and deployed by the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber. The B-2 is currently the only aircraft in the U.S. inventory capable of carrying this 30,000-pound bomb.

Here's why:

• Size and Weight:
  The GBU-57 is extremely large and heavy, measuring 20.5 feet in length and weighing 30,000 pounds.
  
  
• B-2's Unique Capabilities:
  The B-2 Spirit is designed to carry large and heavy munitions, making it the only aircraft capable of deploying the GBU-57.
  
  
• Limited Payload:
  The B-2 can carry two GBU-57s at a time.
  
  
• No Other U.S. Aircraft Can Carry It:
  Other U.S. aircraft, including fighter jets, lack the capacity to carry this massive bomb.

 

[Matt2496]

Altitude and speed will have an impact on effectiveness of a MOP, so the kinetic energy of a drop from 30k’ and 300 mph will be less than 50k’ and 600 mph.

In that case, couldn't they drop multiple bunker busters on the same spot? Or is there something I'm missing here?

 

[Vol8188]

Iran absolutely deserves scrutiny, but let’s be clear: they’re under constant IAEA inspection, and enrichment beyond 3.67% only began after the U.S. broke the JCPOA. Trust isn’t the standard for war, verified intent and violations are. And so far, there’s no proof of a weapons program, just suspicion dressed up as certainty.

The same IAEA whose recent report was the triggering event for the current war? There’s same IAEA who called them noncompliant for the first time in multiple decades and stated they were merely a “decision away” from weaponization?

 

[Matt2496]

AI Overview

The GBU-57, also known as the Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP), is a massive bunker-busting bomb exclusively carried and deployed by the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber. The B-2 is currently the only aircraft in the U.S. inventory capable of carrying this 30,000-pound bomb.

Here's why:

• Size and Weight:
  The GBU-57 is extremely large and heavy, measuring 20.5 feet in length and weighing 30,000 pounds.
  
  
• B-2's Unique Capabilities:
  The B-2 Spirit is designed to carry large and heavy munitions, making it the only aircraft capable of deploying the GBU-57.
  
  
• Limited Payload:
  The B-2 can carry two GBU-57s at a time.
  
  
• No Other U.S. Aircraft Can Carry It:
  Other U.S. aircraft, including fighter

Highlighted the key word.

Nowhere does that say that other aircraft can't be outfitted to deploy that bomb.

I think the biggest reason why the B2 was chosen is because the mission profile for deploying such a weapon would necessitate stealth capability, not necessarily physical or engineering constraints.

 

[Persian Vol]

One day you’ll accept your homeland has agency and stop blaming the world. In another thread your blaming America for Iran installing a theocracy, in this thread you’re blaming Israel and the US for Iran attempting to make nuclear weapons.

There’s no medical isotope that requires 60% enrichment. This is as bad your argument about Biden and his PSA levels.

You’re just repeating a false claim about medical isotopes and dragging in unrelated arguments from other threads while ignoring the actual point I’m making.

 

[Persian Vol]

What intel does the administration have and not have?

If the administration had solid intel proving Iran is building a bomb, we’d know, they’d be using it to justify action publicly, just like with Iraq. But so far, neither the U.S. nor the IAEA has presented that kind of evidence. That’s the point: don’t substitute suspicion for proof.

 

[Vol8188]

You’re just repeating a false claim about medical isotopes and dragging in unrelated arguments from other threads while ignoring the actual point I’m making.

What’s false? The only thing that is false is your claim that they need 60% uranium for medical isotopes. I didn’t make that claim.


You have no point. You’re claiming they’re doing this for “leverage”. The only leverage is the threat of a bomb. Because no one cares if they’re really just doing medical research.

Can you give us any other logical reason for their actions? Why be noncompliant with inspectors? Why enrich to 60%?

You have nothing because every reason you provided came back to “or we will build a nuclear weapon” and then you jokingly claimed it’s a strawman when I call you out for it

 

[Jax_Vol]

AI Overview

The GBU-57, also known as the Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP), is a massive bunker-busting bomb exclusively carried and deployed by the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber. The B-2 is currently the only aircraft in the U.S. inventory capable of carrying this 30,000-pound bomb.

Here's why:

• Size and Weight:
  The GBU-57 is extremely large and heavy, measuring 20.5 feet in length and weighing 30,000 pounds.
  
  
• B-2's Unique Capabilities:
  The B-2 Spirit is designed to carry large and heavy munitions, making it the only aircraft capable of deploying the GBU-57.
  
  
• Limited Payload:
  The B-2 can carry two GBU-57s at a time.
  
  
• No Other U.S. Aircraft Can Carry It:
  Other U.S. aircraft, including fighter jets, lack the capacity to carry this massive bomb.

Is this the same as the MOAB (Mother of All Bombs) we dropped on Afghanistan?

Or something different?

MOAB closes up those cave entrances