Iran

#2,852
#2,852
lukeneyland said:
How about trust the Iranians when they declare a Jihad to exterminate the Jews and destroy America. No nukes for them. It’s funny all the affinity that the left has for calling people Nazis that they refuse to use such a categorization for the Iranians.
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Iran qualifies as an oppressed group, in their view, and by definition oppressed groups cannot be bad or wrong about anything.
 
#2,853
#2,853
rekinhavoc said:
Patience. Let the Iranian people take it from here.
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While I'm not disagreeing, really, this is much like disarming the radicals who are conducting a prison riot then dumping all the guns in the common yard and letting the prisoners work it out. Certainly it stops the riot but you still have a bunch of armed prisoners.

The Iranian people are going to be left with a power void politically and lots of weapons likely including at least some, likely not much, of their nuclear research facilities intact.

It's not like they're suddenly going to be inclined to make peace with everyone. They're shia, most of the Muslim world is sunni. They're certainly not going to look at Israel as a friendly country. They're not going to look at the US as friendly either.

What the Iranian people are going to be is isolated in the world, likely missing some infrastructure/govt services, and rebuilding from being attacked.

We can't really expect a friendly country to emerge from this, can we?
 
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#2,854
#2,854
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
While I'm not disagreeing, really, this is much like disarming the radicals who are conducting a prison riot then dumping all the guns in the common yard and letting the prisoners work it out. Certainly it stops the riot but you still have a bunch of armed prisoners.

The Iranian people are going to be left with a power void politically and lots of weapons likely including at least some, likely not much, of their nuclear research facilities intact.

It's not like they're suddenly going to be inclined to make peace with everyone. They're shia, most of the Muslim world is sunni. They're certainly not going to look at Israel as a friendly country. They're not going to look at the US as friendly either.

What the Iranian people are going to be is isolated in the world, likely missing some infrastructure/govt services, and rebuilding from being attacked.

We can't really expect a friendly country to emerge from this, can we?
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I think the world will come together and assist Iran.
 
#2,858
#2,858
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
While I'm not disagreeing, really, this is much like disarming the radicals who are conducting a prison riot then dumping all the guns in the common yard and letting the prisoners work it out. Certainly it stops the riot but you still have a bunch of armed prisoners.

The Iranian people are going to be left with a power void politically and lots of weapons likely including at least some, likely not much, of their nuclear research facilities intact.

It's not like they're suddenly going to be inclined to make peace with everyone. They're shia, most of the Muslim world is sunni. They're certainly not going to look at Israel as a friendly country. They're not going to look at the US as friendly either.

What the Iranian people are going to be is isolated in the world, likely missing some infrastructure/govt services, and rebuilding from being attacked.

We can't really expect a friendly country to emerge from this, can we?
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The biggest difference between Iranians and their Muslim neighbors is that Iranians for the most part are of Persian descent and not Arab. I also think they are better educated so as a people they might embrace a chance to join the modern world.
 
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#2,859
#2,859
hog88 said:
The biggest difference between Iranians and their Muslim neighbors is that Iranians for the most part are of Persian descent and not Arab. I also think they are better educated so as a people they might embrace a chance to join the modern world.
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Spending 10 minutes with Iranians proves this.

If we condemned entire countries based on their governments the US should be among the first to go.
 
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#2,861
#2,861
Orangeburst said:
IOW, you will complain either way.
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Depends on what it is. I just said in a few posts above that I am not as critical of Trump for the "I don;t care what she says" remark about Gabbard as I didn't see it as a complaint by him about her, just dismissive irritation at having to deal with the question.
 
#2,862
#2,862
lawgator1 said:
Depends on what it is. I just said in a few posts above that I am not as critical of Trump for the "I don;t care what she says" remark about Gabbard as I didn't see it as a complaint by him about her, just dismissive irritation at having to deal with the question.
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So go on record..should we assist with Fordow or not?
 
#2,863
#2,863
MAD said:
I think the world will come together and assist Iran.
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I don't. The emerging govt is likely to be heavily composed of military strongmen who cannot be trusted.

It's extremely likely that Russia and China WILL want to befriend the new regime to use them as puppets (see the Palestinians and Yemeni govts) knowing they can manipulate them to be disruptive in the region and perhaps manipulate their oil reserves (like we did under the Shah.)

The world, at least what passes for the free world, has no reason to trust nor befriend the new Iranian govt nor the judgement of the Iranian people in picking a govt.
 
#2,865
#2,865
hog88 said:
The biggest difference between Iranians and their Muslim neighbors is that Iranians for the most part are of Persian descent and not Arab. I also think they are better educated so as a people they might embrace a chance to join the modern world.
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This 👆
 
#2,866
#2,866
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I don't. The emerging govt is likely to be heavily composed of military strongmen who cannot be trusted.

It's extremely likely that Russia and China WILL want to befriend the new regime to use them as puppets (see the Palestinians and Yemeni govts) knowing they can manipulate them to be disruptive in the region and perhaps manipulate their oil reserves (like we did under the Shah.)

The world, at least what passes for the free world, has no reason to trust nor befriend the new Iranian govt nor the judgement of the Iranian people in picking a govt.
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Yes. Kind of like Egypt after Mubarak was overthrown. And that's a best-case scenario.

A worst case scenario is that a Taliban or ISIS-like group (a Shia version of it) gets in charge.
 
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#2,867
#2,867
ButchPlz said:
Spending 10 minutes with Iranians proves this.

If we condemned entire countries based on their governments the US should be among the first to go.
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Late 90s I had a guy that worked for us that was Iranian. He fought in the Iran/Iraq war, was wounded and while in the hospital he escaped and made his way out of the country. It was a damned amazing story.
 
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#2,868
#2,868
hog88 said:
The biggest difference between Iranians and their Muslim neighbors is that Iranians for the most part are of Persian descent and not Arab. I also think they are better educated so as a people they might embrace a chance to join the modern world.
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They haven't in a half a century. I'm not an expert on Iran but I STRONGLY suspect the religious based govt has indoctrinated a couple of generations of younger Iranians toward a more radical look at the world.

I'm extremely doubtful after about 50yrs of shia imams controlling every aspect of education in the country that most Iranians are "live and let live" Muslims.
 
#2,869
#2,869
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I don't. The emerging govt is likely to be heavily composed of military strongmen who cannot be trusted.

It's extremely likely that Russia and China WILL want to befriend the new regime to use them as puppets (see the Palestinians and Yemeni govts) knowing they can manipulate them to be disruptive in the region and perhaps manipulate their oil reserves (like we did under the Shah.)

The world, at least what passes for the free world, has no reason to trust nor befriend the new Iranian govt nor the judgement of the Iranian people in picking a govt.
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I hope this isn’t how it goes.
 
#2,870
#2,870
Orangeburst said:
So go on record..should we assist with Fordow or not?
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I need more information.

1) How close do we assess them to be?

2) How close do the Israelis assess them to be?

3) How confident are we it will work?

4) If the current regime stays in power, what are the short and long term geopolitical consequences of doing it?

To name a few. And right now all we have is publicly relayed summaries which people are telling us for a reason.
 
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#2,872
#2,872
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I don't. The emerging govt is likely to be heavily composed of military strongmen who cannot be trusted.

It's extremely likely that Russia and China WILL want to befriend the new regime to use them as puppets (see the Palestinians and Yemeni govts) knowing they can manipulate them to be disruptive in the region and perhaps manipulate their oil reserves (like we did under the Shah.)

The world, at least what passes for the free world, has no reason to trust nor befriend the new Iranian govt nor the judgement of the Iranian people in picking a govt.
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The Iranian people have been living under a tyrannical theocratic regime for almost 50 years, I think they have had enough and we should trust them to form a more moderate secular government.
 
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#2,873
#2,873
hog88 said:
Late 90s I had a guy that worked for us that was Iranian. He fought in the Iran/Iraq war, was wounded and while in the hospital he escaped and made his way out of the country. It was a damned amazing story.
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I've had nothing but incredible experiences with Persian people. One of my best friends from high school married a Persian girl and her entire family was beyond welcoming and threw an incredible party. My old fitness trainer is Persian and my wife tutored her kids in math and Spanish. Incredible woman. Meanwhile, and yes it's an anecdote, the single Israeli I worked with embezzled money from our company. Wonderful! I still won't judge all the people of Israel, but their government is garbage.

Imagine if some mystery power looked at the riots and protests in the US and decided unilaterally that we needed to be destroyed. Say bye to grandma. Say bye to your kids. Say bye to your wife and all your family. Now imagine if I watched all the footage of Israelis celebrating 9/11 and said we needed to eradicate all of Israel. That's what these brainlet idiots are advocating for when they say "I want them all dead!". That's what the demoniac Bibi advocates for almost every time he opens his piehole and says he's not interested in peace.
 
#2,874
#2,874
lawgator1 said:
I need more information.

1) How close do we assess them to be?

2) How close do the Israelis assess them to be?

3) How confident are we it will work?

4) If the current regime stays in power, what are the short and long term geopolitical consequences of doing it?

To name a few. And right now all we have is publicly relayed summaries which people are telling us for a reason.
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Your 4th question is where you have to use your own intuition. That is the most important question and it’s why you were asked to go on record in the first place
 
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