President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

#28,276
#28,276
hndog609 said:
I'm pretty sure (can't say for certain) everyone feels in that scenario if it actually played out that way ICE (or any LEO agency to be honest) should get hammered. I'd fully support that person winning a hefty lawsuit. As an aside wouldn't it be easy enough to run the ID to determine it's validity?

This doesn't allow the dismissal of the other observations though. Those hypotheticals don't unhappen because the specific scenario you cite is different.
Click to expand...
sure. but my default is to protect the rights of the person than it is to stand up for the police state.

the government should always be the one held to the higher standard. if they want to do something they have to justify their actions to us. not the other way around.
 
#28,277
#28,277
LouderVol said:
no one should be detained because they don't have an ID either.

how are you at fault for being wrongfully detained? You sound like LG, blaming the victim type "If you hadn't worn that slutty dress you never would have been raped."
Click to expand...

Literally no one said that you should be detained for not having an ID. Are you done fighting windmills?

Because you could have easily rectified the situation by presenting an ID.
 
#28,278
#28,278
tRump's U.S. Army Sec. Dan Driscoll informs us we have an astronaut warfighter on the Moon and they are talking with him.

 
#28,279
#28,279
Vol8188 said:
Why would anything I’ve stated be unacceptable?

Where is the unacceptable aspect?

You don’t have to show anyone an ID. I agree. But if you get wrongfully detained over it, realize you’re part of the problem
Click to expand...
heck to the no.
well I would say yes if you had purposefully dressed up like someone else to confuse the cops. that would be part of the problem and probably worthy of being criminally charged with something.

but to the 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time. heck no. you are just victim blaming instead of admitting you are in an abusive relationship.
 
#28,280
#28,280
Vol8188 said:
Literally no one said that you should be detained for not having an ID. Are you done fighting windmills?

Because you could have easily rectified the situation by presenting an ID.
Click to expand...
yeah, just like the rape victim could have rectified the situation by wearing baggy clothes.

you literally just said "if you get wrongfully detained over it" (not showing an ID). its not a matter of "should", its a matter of how the situation is resolved and who is at fault. you want to blame the victim for being the victim of the police state.
 
#28,282
#28,282
LouderVol said:
sure. but my default is to protect the rights of the person than it is to stand up for the police state.

the government should always be the one held to the higher standard. if they want to do something they have to justify their actions to us. not the other way around.
Click to expand...
SCOTUS says that reasonable cause is justified actions for law enforcement.
 
#28,284
#28,284
Sandman 423 said:
It's not evil and I didn't say it was, but if you are looking for someone, you should probably know what they look like. If you don't know and they say they are someone else you cut them loose. Don't make excuses for incompetence .
Click to expand...
So is this the believe all immigrants argument..that will fail like the believe all wo.en argument..bottom line.. My most of these people have deportation orders and other are swept is as associated with them detained and verified..of I was with ice and detained a citizen while following a deportation order, of consider looking at that person as of they were helping that illegal which is a crime..so a few hours and release is better then jail time and a record.
 
#28,285
#28,285
LouderVol said:
heck to the no.
well I would say yes if you had purposefully dressed up like someone else to confuse the cops. that would be part of the problem and probably worthy of being criminally charged with something.

but to the 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the time. heck no. you are just victim blaming instead of admitting you are in an abusive relationship.
Click to expand...

People get confused even if you’re not playing dress up.

Ever spoke to someone who you thought was someone else in public? Everyone has.

You can’t release every criminal who doesn’t have an ID. Once you accept that reality, you realize x% of the time they will unintentionally detain the wrong person. We should work to keep x as low as possible. But we shouldn’t simply release people for not having an ID
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Orange_Crush
#28,286
#28,286
LouderVol said:
reasonable cause of "person has a tan and doesn't sound like they went to Harvard" stand up in court yet?
Click to expand...
If you don't want to accurately represent an argument, don't be surprised when people write you off.

And if the stated cause doesn't hold up in court, the system worked.
 
#28,287
#28,287
LouderVol said:
yeah, just like the rape victim could have rectified the situation by wearing baggy clothes.

you literally just said "if you get wrongfully detained over it" (not showing an ID). its not a matter of "should", its a matter of how the situation is resolved and who is at fault. you want to blame the victim for being the victim of the police state.
Click to expand...

“Wrongfully detained over not showing an ID”

If I thought you should get detained for not having an ID, it wouldn’t be “wrongful”. I’d call that “appropriately detained”.
 
#28,289
#28,289
LouderVol said:
sure. but my default is to protect the rights of the person than it is to stand up for the police state.

the government should always be the one held to the higher standard. if they want to do something they have to justify their actions to us. not the other way around.
Click to expand...
Hey, I've no problem with that default. Even a casual glance at my posting history would show that to be the case. I've made much use of phrases like "articulable reasonable suspicion" and this should apply here. I don't want broad brushing going on in either direction. We've already determined after the fact that some of these "They're just grabbing people for being brown!" vids aren't true. If there's genuine reason to check someone (remember, not just some "Hey, you got ID?" randomly being applied) then so be it. If not then...no esta bueno.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: McDad
#28,290
#28,290
whodeycin85 said:
So is this the believe all immigrants argument..that will fail like the believe all wo.en argument..bottom line.. My most of these people have deportation orders and other are swept is as associated with them detained and verified..of I was with ice and detained a citizen while following a deportation order, of consider looking at that person as of they were helping that illegal which is a crime..so a few hours and release is better then jail time and a record.
Click to expand...
how many illegal immigrants are there in your opinion? do you know how many latino people are in this country in total? and do you know how many total outstanding deportation orders there are?

the truth isn't nearly as bad as you want it to be.

there are approximately 1.4 million outstanding deportation orders.
there are approximately 65 million latinos in the US, assuming each one of them actually filled out the census. which we know they didn't.

your "most" is at best, for your argument, 2% of "these people"
 
#28,291
#28,291
LouderVol said:
how many illegal immigrants are there in your opinion? do you know how many latino people are in this country in total? and do you know how many total outstanding deportation orders there are?

the truth isn't nearly as bad as you want it to be.

there are approximately 1.4 million outstanding deportation orders.
there are approximately 65 million latinos in the US, assuming each one of them actually filled out the census. which we know they didn't.

your "most" is at best, for your argument, 2% of "these people"
Click to expand...
Fair enough and you argument for citizens deported is 0...and detained by ICE is less then 2%..so your point is what??
 
#28,292
#28,292
Vol8188 said:
People get confused even if you’re not playing dress up.

Ever spoke to someone who you thought was someone else in public? Everyone has.

You can’t realize every criminal who doesn’t have an ID. Once you accept that reality, you realize x% of the time they will unintentionally detain the wrong person. We should work to keep x as low as possible. But we shouldn’t simply release people for not having an ID
Click to expand...
so ICE just needs to do what every normal human would do in that situation. Don't immediate take aggressive action until they have positively ID'd someone. especially given how it will potentially ruin their lives, regardless of their guilt.

go up and talk to them. if they stick around and answer your questions, they probably aren't illegal.

I would be fine with ICE detaining someone they haven't ID'd if said individual tries to run from them. even if the runner was a citizen. that would be a suspicious activity and give cause.

you can't just sit there and accept collateral damage from the government and act like everything will be fine. you would rather tax payers have to fork over millions in lawsuits rather than the government not jump to conclusions.
 
#28,293
#28,293
whodeycin85 said:
Fair enough and you argument for citizens deported is 0...and detained by ICE is less then 2%..so your point is what??
Click to expand...
the number of rights stepped on isn't zero. as I have pointed out multiple times, the Supreme court has already ruled multiple times that they have gotten stuff wrong in their blood lust to deport latinos.
 
#28,294
#28,294
LouderVol said:
the number of rights stepped on isn't zero. as I have pointed out multiple times, the Supreme court has already ruled multiple times that they have gotten stuff wrong in their blood lust to deport latinos.
Click to expand...
Show me an American citizen being deported.

As far as SCOTUS alot more will be determined after the 14th amendment verbage case is finalized...if they rule for Trump the. Illegals will not be allowed the same rights as citizens the what?
 
#28,295
#28,295
LouderVol said:
I would walk up to my door, insert my key, and open the lock & door, and ask if he needed anything else.

to avoid your next question. if he asked for more information and was holding me at gun point. I would give him my name, my address, and tell him to run that info.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. And not unreasonable given your protected rights as an American citizen. If the LEO detains you and takes you to the police station to verify your are not the suspect, would you consider that a reasonable response for the officer?
 
#28,296
#28,296
whodeycin85 said:
So is this the believe all immigrants argument..that will fail like the believe all wo.en argument..bottom line.. My most of these people have deportation orders and other are swept is as associated with them detained and verified..of I was with ice and detained a citizen while following a deportation order, of consider looking at that person as of they were helping that illegal which is a crime..so a few hours and release is better then jail time and a record.
Click to expand...
If this happened to my daughter I would be slightly more than upset so I try to hold the same standard for people that I don't know. If she was helping someone evade the police then she should be charged and she'd better hope she knows someone else to post her bond. I understand that mistakes happen, but that doesn't make it acceptable.
 
#28,297
#28,297
McDad said:
Fair enough. And not unreasonable given your protected rights as an American citizen. If the LEO detains you and takes you to the police station to verify your are not the suspect, would you consider that a reasonable response for the officer?
Click to expand...
this literally happens all the time in reality
 
#28,298
#28,298
A throw-back Republic. Hope someday the party returns to sanity...

"...Representative Don Bacon, Republican of Nebraska, has publicly accused President Trump of treating Russia with “velvet gloves,” criticized him for gutting AmeriCorps and questioned his power to impose tariffs without congressional approval.

He has described Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s use of Signal to share sensitive military operations as “unacceptable.” And he was the sole House Republican to vote “no” on a bill to rename the Gulf of Mexico as the “Gulf of America.” He said he thought it was stupid.

Mr. Bacon’s willingness to publicly disagree with the president makes him an anomaly in the tribal House Republican Conference, where members tend to fall in line behind Mr. Trump’s agenda and actively seek out ways to demonstrate their loyalty to him. In a Republican-led Congress that has been reluctant to challenge Mr. Trump on almost anything, the Nebraskan is among the last of a disappearing breed in his party. And his recent statements and actions strongly suggest he may be headed for the exit.

In an interview in his office last week, Mr. Bacon, at 61 serving his fifth term in Congress, would not say whether he voted for Mr. Trump last year. He also likened members of his party to people following someone off a cliff, compared himself to Winston Churchill speaking out against Adolf Hitler in the 1930s and criticized the billionaire tech tycoon Elon Musk, who has bankrolled many of his Republican colleagues."
 
#28,299
#28,299
#28,300
#28,300
Sandman 423 said:
If this happened to my daughter I would be slightly more than upset so I try to hold the same standard for people that I don't know. If she was helping someone evade the police then she should be charged and she'd better hope she knows someone else to post her bond. I understand that mistakes happen, but that doesn't make it acceptable.
Click to expand...
So in this scenario would you be upset if your daughter refused to identify herself and was in a vehicle driving an illegal...she is pulled over and detained till she can be cleared of harboring and illegal..is that illegal detainment or is that ICE doing their job ?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top