President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

[Vol8188]

If law enforcement detained a person based on "you are Hispanic and my meet the general description of the person I have a warrant for", yes it would be an illegal detention if the sole reason that the LEO interacted with the person was "he looked like the person described in my generic description"; what you are describing is just 'racial profiling'.

No one said that. You’re making up your own strawman, beating it to death, and then claiming it’s proof that everyone else is some evil bootlicker.

It’s beyond retarded.

So why would what I said, not what you said, be an illegal detention?

The obvious answer is it wouldn’t. Which is why you continue with their dumb claims

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Gavin Newsom says Trump is not 'all there' mentally and SOBS while accusing the president of making his teen daughter cry during LA riots​

California Governor Gavin Newsom continued his all out-messaging war against Donald Trump after he decided to send federal troops to California to help quell the riots in Los Angeles.

Newsom painted himself and his family as a victim of Trump's aggressive posture toward California, revealing that the president made his teenage daughter cry.

'I have a 15-year-old who quite literally came home from school crying because she was told on her last day of school — God as my witness — because she was told her daddy was getting arrested,' Newsom revealed on The Daily podcast hosted by the New York Times.

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The California governor also lamented that the president started calling him by the nickname 'Newscum.'

'Yeah, it's the president of United States calling someone scum, Newscum, which is, for what it's worth, what I think a seventh grader used to call me on Baltimore Street in Corte Madera, California,' he said.

Newsom blamed the president for the violent riots in Los Angeles as protestors burned cars and waved Mexican flags.


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Gavin Newsom says Trump is not 'all there' mentally and SOBS

California Governor Gavin Newsom continued his all out-messaging war against President Donald Trump's decision to send federal troops to California to help quell the riots in Los Angeles.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Gavin's basketball city is in chaos & burning to the ground & he's obsessed w/Trump. Dude shows every day he is a lunatic like LG is.

 

[BeardedVol]

No one said that. You’re making up your own strawman, beating it to death, and then claiming it’s proof that everyone else is some evil bootlicker.

It’s beyond retarded.

So why would what I said, not what you said, be an illegal detention?

The obvious answer is it wouldn’t. Which is why you continue with their dumb claims

Lol, you've scenario that you fabricated to help you justify your new dereference to authority, gave no statement of any sort of RAS that would explain why ICE was interacting with the wrong person.


I can only work with what you gave me.

 

[Sandman 423]

So here’s the scenario:

1. Let’s assume ICE has an actual warrant for person X.

2. Person Y is wrongly believed to be person x.

3. Person Y does not have an ID on them.

4. Person Y is detained for 8 hours while they sort the situation out.

Is this some great evil from the system? Or is this how the system should work?

I would argue (I think most would) that this is what should happen.

I strongly disagree. In the US we do not have to show ID to prove who we are. Even in stop and identify states you only have to provide a name and other details ( not an ID)
If you have a warrant for someone you should be able to identify them or come back when you can.

 

[evillawyer]

Gonna make an awesome summer thriller

 

[LouderVol]

In that privilege, you cooperate voluntarily. That's reasonable. If we change the location, say the LEO followed you home from a red light for a few minutes and asked for your info in your driveway...still voluntarily comply or is your response different?

lights on the whole time they are following me, I would probably comply even on my property.

if they waited until I got on my property I wouldn't. that sounds more like entrapment, or probably just baiting, and looking for something to charge me with.

 

[Vol8188]

I strongly disagree. In the US we do not have to show ID to prove who we are. Even in stop and identify states you only have to provide a name and other details ( not an ID)
If you have a warrant for someone you should be able to identify them or come back when you can.

No one said you have to prove who you are. But if someone believes you are the suspect, and you don’t have ID, and it costs you a couple of hours of your life to get the situation sorted out

That’s entirely on you. Mistaken identity is going to happen. Pretending it’s a symptom of some evil police state is a joke

 

[McDad]

lights on the whole time they are following me, I would probably comply even on my property.

if they waited until I got on my property I wouldn't. that sounds more like entrapment, or probably just baiting, and looking for something to charge me with.

I think both of those are as reasonable as your response at a checkpoint on the road.

What if the LEO followed you with lights off and approached you in the driveway explaining a report of a robbery was reported nearby and the suspect description matches yours and the car is the same. Would you let him see your "papers" and answer his questions?

 

[Vol8188]

Lol, you've scenario that you fabricated to help you justify your new dereference to authority, gave no statement of any sort of RAS that would explain why ICE was interacting with the wrong person.
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I can only work with what you gave me.

Sure it did. Based on their information of what the suspect looks like, they believe this to be the correct person. You’re attempting to wrongly proclaim this is racial. It’s a joke.

They may both be 5’2, bald, with similar tattoos. The exact specifics of the “why” isn’t really the issue here.

The issue is simple. If you have an ID, you avoid this scenario. If you don’t, they shouldn’t just release you and rewards criminals for failing to provide an ID.

 

[LouderVol]

So here’s the scenario:

1. Let’s assume ICE has an actual warrant for person X.

2. Person Y is wrongly believed to be person x.

3. Person Y does not have an ID on them.

4. Person Y is detained for 8 hours while they sort the situation out.

Is this some great evil from the system? Or is this how the system should work?

I would argue (I think most would) that this is what should happen.

its funny how far yall will go with hypotheticals to justify what is actually happening. real life looks more like:

1. ICE doesn't have a warrant or deportation order for person X. they are just profiling for person X.
2. Person Y is wrongly believed to be person X. probably just grabbed the next latino person they saw.
3. Person Y provides ID, ICE claims it fake. even though it was a Real ID.
4. Person Y is detained for 6 hours.
5. ICE never formally charges the person with a crime, or even of being an illegal and subject to their jurisdiction.

and yall see nothing wrong with any of it.

but as I have stated multiple times, if there is an actual warrant, or an actual deportation order that starts the whole mess, then yes that is how it should work out. but due to how many times I have repeated this stance, I am sure I will have to do it again.

 

[LouderVol]

I think both of those are as reasonable as your response at a checkpoint on the road.

What if the LEO followed you with lights off and approached you in the driveway explaining a report of a robbery was reported nearby and the suspect description matches yours and the car is the same. Would you let him see your "papers" and answer his questions?

I would walk up to my door, insert my key, and open the lock & door, and ask if he needed anything else.

to avoid your next question. if he asked for more information and was holding me at gun point. I would give him my name, my address, and tell him to run that info.

 

[theFallGuy]

What if the LEO followed you with lights off and approached you in the driveway explaining a report of a robbery was reported nearby and the suspect description matches yours and the car is the same. Would you let him see your "papers" and answer his questions?

If you didn't you'd be making life very difficult for yourself

 

[LouderVol]

Sure it did. Based on their information of what the suspect looks like, they believe this to be the correct person. You’re attempting to wrongly proclaim this is racial. It’s a joke.

They may both be 5’2, bald, with similar tattoos. The exact specifics of the “why” isn’t really the issue here.

The issue is simple. If you have an ID, you avoid this scenario. If you don’t, they shouldn’t just release you and rewards criminals for failing to provide an ID.

there is literally video in one of these threads of an American having his Real ID rejected by ICE. and he gets detained anyway.

 

[Vol737]

You must have a great time inside your own reality.

It’s a thrill a minute.

 

[Vol8188]

there is literally video in one of these threads of an American having his Real ID rejected by ICE. and he gets detained anyway.

There’s plenty of fake videos in the thread. Like “ICE committed a hit and run” claim.

If you want my opinion on a specific video, feel free to bump it.

But this specific conversation was simple. I made a statement that if you get wrongfully detained and you lack an ID, you have fault there. No one should be released simply because they lack ID

 

[Sandman 423]

No one said you have to prove who you are. But if someone believes you are the suspect, and you don’t have ID, and it costs you a couple of hours of your life to get the situation sorted out

That’s entirely on you. Mistaken identity is going to happen. Pretending it’s a symptom of some evil police state is a joke

It's not evil and I didn't say it was, but if you are looking for someone, you should probably know what they look like. If you don't know and they say they are someone else you cut them loose. Don't make excuses for incompetence .

 

[Vol8188]

I strongly disagree. In the US we do not have to show ID to prove who we are. Even in stop and identify states you only have to provide a name and other details ( not an ID)
If you have a warrant for someone you should be able to identify them or come back when you can.

So if you’re the person the warrant is for, but don’t show me an ID, what do I do next?

The obvious answer is “I arrest you”.

The obvious fact is people aren’t perfect and x% of the time that officer is going to be wrong. That’s something we have to accept and you have to accept that risk when you refuse to identify yourself.

 

[Sandman 423]

So if you’re the person the warrant is for, but don’t show me an ID, what do I do next?

The obvious answer is “I arrest you”.

The obvious fact is people aren’t perfect and x% of the time that officer is going to be wrong. That’s something we have to accept and you have to accept that risk when you refuse to identify yourself.

Or just know who you are looking for.

 

[Vol8188]

Or just know who you are looking for.

You’re intentionally ignoring reality. People are going to make mistakes.

 

[hndog609]

its funny how far yall will go with hypotheticals to justify what is actually happening. real life looks more like:

1. ICE doesn't have a warrant or deportation order for person X. they are just profiling for person X.
2. Person Y is wrongly believed to be person X. probably just grabbed the next latino person they saw.
3. Person Y provides ID, ICE claims it fake. even though it was a Real ID.
4. Person Y is detained for 6 hours.
5. ICE never formally charges the person with a crime, or even of being an illegal and subject to their jurisdiction.

and yall see nothing wrong with any of it.

but as I have stated multiple times, if there is an actual warrant, or an actual deportation order that starts the whole mess, then yes that is how it should work out. but due to how many times I have repeated this stance, I am sure I will have to do it again.

I'm pretty sure (can't say for certain) everyone feels in that scenario if it actually played out that way ICE (or any LEO agency to be honest) should get hammered. I'd fully support that person winning a hefty lawsuit. As an aside wouldn't it be easy enough to run the ID to determine it's validity?

This doesn't allow the dismissal of the other observations though. Those hypotheticals don't unhappen because the specific scenario you cite is different.

 

[Orange_Crush]

So if you’re the person the warrant is for, but don’t show me an ID, what do I do next?

The obvious answer is “I arrest you”.

The obvious fact is people aren’t perfect and x% of the time that officer is going to be wrong. That’s something we have to accept and you have to accept that risk when you refuse to identify yourself.

Or, you ask about person X. The person you ask is not X, but also gives reasonable cause to believe that they are an illegal immigrant. You can't detain them?

If you pull someone over at a DUI stop, smell and find a dead body in the trunk... You can't detain/arrest them because they are sober?

 

[Sandman 423]

You’re intentionally ignoring reality. People are going to make mistakes.

Sure there will, but I am not willing to just say that it is acceptable practice.

 

[LouderVol]

There’s plenty of fake videos in the thread. Like “ICE committed a hit and run” claim.

If you want my opinion on a specific video, feel free to bump it.

But this specific conversation was simple. I made a statement that if you get wrongfully detained and you lack an ID, you have fault there. No one should be released simply because they lack ID

no one should be detained because they don't have an ID either.

how are you at fault for being wrongfully detained? You sound like LG, blaming the victim type "If you hadn't worn that slutty dress you never would have been raped."

 

[LouderVol]

You’re intentionally ignoring reality. People are going to make mistakes.

and to you, its ok when the government makes a mistake. but its not ok when a citizen makes the mistake of not having his ID while walking around America not breaking any laws or doing anything even questionable, or requiring an ID.

the higher standard should be on the government, not the individual wrongly detained.

 

[Vol8188]

Sure there will, but I am not willing to just say that it is acceptable practice.

Why would anything I’ve stated be unacceptable?

Where is the unacceptable aspect?

You don’t have to show anyone an ID. I agree. But if you get wrongfully detained over it, realize you’re part of the problem