President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

#28,202
#28,202
BowlBrother85 said:
A commander at Fort Bragg, quoted in the article, clearly sees it differently than you do. There would be no need to address the political ideology of Army soldiers unless the President was intending to make a politically-charged speech, which he shouldn't be doing on a U.S. Army military installation.

For a sitting President to speak to an audience consisting of members of the United States Armed Forces as though they are an audience of campaign rally-goers is appalling.
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It's happened more times than you want to even think about.
 
#28,203
#28,203
BowlBrother85 said:
Donald Trump is a disgrace.

www.thedailybeast.com

Orders Revealed for Trump’s Army Speech: ‘No Fat Soldiers’

Soldiers at Fort Bragg were told not to attend Trump’s speech if they disagree with the current administration.
www.thedailybeast.com www.thedailybeast.com

"Soldiers at Fort Bragg were told not to attend Trump's speech if they disagree with the current administration."

^^^^ Unbelievable. ^^^^

Donald Trump wants to turn the United States Armed Forces into his own personal, politically partisan militia. There is not an entity left in this country, which Donald Trump has not tried to divide down party lines.

Also, Trump doesn't want the United States Army to have fat soldiers. Somehow, I doubt that is much of a problem for those who didn't recently enlist.

How about no fat presidents, Donny?
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There shouldn't be any fat soldiers.
 
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#28,204
#28,204
LouderVol said:
what else are they profiling on?

broken english? I have lived in the south long enough to know we don't speak coherent english a good chunk of the time. I don't see ICE hitting the hollers or the bayou. and good luck explaining in court how you were able to pick up on broken english in your squad car with someone on jobsite with heavy machinery going. heck about half of the supers I have worked with, and I am sure @marcusluvsvols is the same, use the same broken english to talk to his guys.
tatoos? I don't see ICE hanging out around the local tattoo parlors, or hitting up biker gang bars.
driving a town car? I don't see ICE hanging out at the retirement homes.
mariachi music? I have yet to see ICE arrest Steve Martin, Martin Short, or Chevy Chase.
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Appearance, what they're doing (dang good chance people hanging around HD looking for work are illegal), reports that there are illegals working on a job site. So no, they are not profiling on skin color alone.
 
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#28,205
#28,205
Vol8188 said:
Yes, I’m aware that even DNA evidence has lead to bad outcomes. Are you claiming we should never arrest anyone ever because even DNA can be wrong?

If there’s a reasonable suspicion (eye witness says they saw someone who looks exactly like you beat an elderly woman to death for example), we shouldn’t release you because “I don’t have an ID with me!”.

You seem to think it’s some kind of get out of jail free card.
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eye witnesses are the worst form of evidence. but the situation you described is a long way from what ICE is doing.

unless you are trying to push some BS that there are some eye witnesses to the illegal border crossing who are giving a good enough description to distinguish one latino to another, for every ICE arrest/detention.

No, I believe its a reason to push back on the government overstepping its bounds. I have never said to stop, or even reduce, what ICE is doing. my resistance has always been the HOW of it.

you won't find me complaining about ICE grabbing up people with deportation orders from 7 years ago. you won't find me complaining about that pregnant lady getting arrested/hasteled for interfering.

you seem to think the presence of illegals gives the feds carte blanche to do whatever they want.
 
#28,206
#28,206
McDad said:
Your positions on illegal immigration and what to do with people here illegally are unexpected.

Is immigrating to the US a privilege or a right?
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find where I am against deporting illegals. you won't.

I am against the way the government is going about it. expanding their powers and stepping on people's rights is inexcusable. I don't care who the victims are, or how little it impacts me. its unacceptable.

If ICE and Trump were staying in their lanes I wouldn't be complaining. its why you haven't seen me jump in to the defense of every single story like some posters. its because I have no issue with those. but there is enough bad going on that I am going to call it out. especially when the typical pro-rights people are suddenly lining up to support a police state.
 
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#28,208
#28,208
n_huffhines said:
www.facebook.com

4.2K reactions · 19 shares | Marines are not trained to police. We are trained to kill. Sending Marines against protestors is completely f**king insane. | Nathan Sage for U.S. Senate

Marines are not trained to police. We are trained to kill. Sending Marines against protestors is completely ******* insane..
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
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============================================================



"Yes, U.S. Marines receive specific training in riot and crowd control, focusing on de-escalation tactics and non-lethal methods. This training prepares them to manage both peaceful and violent demonstrations, often incorporating techniques like riot shields, batons, and inert OC spray."


 
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#28,209
#28,209
Orange_Crush said:
No. You should work on your comprehension. It was a discussion about what we do in foreign countries to make life more convenient for ourselves. My point was that it's not always just for convenience IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

We should be the United States, where the SCOTUS has ruled that law enforcement can detain you for questioning and arrest you based on probable cause. Taking the risk of sounding like Looth, our republic HAS TO walk the line in a continuum between personal rights and the gov't ability to affect law enforcement, civil and criminal justice(which are parts of the gov't's job). The constitution protects us from UNREASONABLE search; not ANY AND EVERY search.

The SCOTUS has determined that requesting documentation, in some situations, is not unreasonable.

As mentioned earlier, and you ignored, they can pull you over while driving and demand identification, registration and proof of insurance. If you are reasonably suspected to be a criminal, it has been deemed reasonable to ask you for identification to prove your identity. Similarly, it seems that ICE requesting documentation in public encounters has been deemed reasonable. If your hyper-libertarian sensibilities don't like it, contact your representatives and give them hell. But whining online about ICE doing what ICE can legally do will not change what ICE can legally do. It'll only make you a tiring bore to the board.
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oh I have been in contact with multiple public officials. don't you worry about that. based on the results its about as helpful as posting here. maybe even more frustrating it.

I didn't ignore it. it was just never a stance I took. you argument about the cops pulling you over because they think you might be a criminal is misleading AF. I drive a blue nissan sedan with georgia plates. if the cops are on the look out for a blue nissan sedan with georgia plates, I have no issue with them stopping me. that exact scenario has happened, had no issue with it. that is not what is going on. they aren't even just stopping blue sedans with georgia plates, or nissan sedans with georgia plates, or blue nissans with georgia plates, or blue nissan sedans, they are just pulling people over who are in sedans. and you guys act like it that is specific enough to justify the stop. it simply isn't.

If ICE can give probably cause I don't have an issue with it. its why I am not jumping on every single sob story the internet throws out. I have responded to the specific stories that I take exception to. yalls blanket defense of all things ICE is telling.
 
#28,210
#28,210
LouderVol said:
so convenience for the state comes before individual rights? man, the right is looking more and more left these days.
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I just wanna get your take on this comment. Do you believe the role of citizens in a civilized society to push back on the state or should it be a partnership??? IMO carrying id etc..is a convenient to the state as well as to the citizens. Being able to prove your a legal citizen at the drop of a hat should be standard practice. Why should it be different here then every other country?
 
#28,214
#28,214
LouderVol said:
find where I am against deporting illegals. you won't.

I am against the way the government is going about it. expanding their powers and stepping on people's rights is inexcusable. I don't care who the victims are, or how little it impacts me. its unacceptable.

If ICE and Trump were staying in their lanes I wouldn't be complaining. its why you haven't seen me jump in to the defense of every single story like some posters. its because I have no issue with those. but there is enough bad going on that I am going to call it out. especially when the typical pro-rights people are suddenly lining up to support a police state.
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Do you see immigration as a right or a privilege granted to foreigners?
 
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#28,215
#28,215
hog88 said:
Appearance, what they're doing (dang good chance people hanging around HD looking for work are illegal), reports that there are illegals working on a job site. So no, they are not profiling on skin color alone.
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not skin color alone, but the first thing you mention is appearances...unhu.

reports as in the local Karen being a busy body who also tries to red-flag her gun toting neighbor?

never see the new Fun with Dick & Jane? I very much doubt ICE is spending anytime looking at the honkies and darkies hanging out in the HD parking lot. so yes, they are profiling based on skin color.
 
#28,216
#28,216
whodeycin85 said:
I just wanna get your take on this comment. Do you believe the role of citizens in a civilized society to push back on the state or should it be a partnership??? IMO carrying id etc..is a convenient to the state as well as to the citizens. Being able to prove your a legal citizen at the drop of a hat should be standard practice. Why should it be different here then every other country?
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citizens should absolutely be a force pushing back on the government. its what this country was founded on. what we have isn't a partnership, or if it is its one of the most one sided abusive relationships ever.

why should this country be different? Because we are. or at least we are supposed to be. are you suddenly a globalist like luther who believes we should comply with the world order? Going to give up your guns? Embrace higher taxes, and cost of living, because why should we be any different?

until Trump cucked you all being different than the rest of the world was a key bit of pride in our country.
 
#28,217
#28,217
McDad said:
Do you see immigration as a right or a privilege granted to foreigners?
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a privilege to start, but once they are in the system they are due due process. Trump has repeatedly circumvented that due process. to such a point the Supreme Court has had to get involved.

a latino citizen's rights don't stop because another latino is still here on privilege. you dodged it earlier, but your skin color based profiling is going to have a 60% miss rate. and applies to way too big of a chunk of the population for me to be comfortable with.
 
#28,218
#28,218
LouderVol said:
not skin color alone, but the first thing you mention is appearances...unhu.

reports as in the local Karen being a busy body who also tries to red-flag her gun toting neighbor?

never see the new Fun with Dick & Jane? I very much doubt ICE is spending anytime looking at the honkies and darkies hanging out in the HD parking lot. so yes, they are profiling based on skin color.
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I hope it's just your naiveite showing, of course police/ICE use appearance. You're dressed like a gang banger when the cops are looking for a gang banger you risk getting stopped and questioned. A Hispanic man dressed in work clothes hanging out in the HD parking lot looking for work is 100x more likely to be questioned than a hispanic man in a suit walking into the store.
 
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#28,220
#28,220
LouderVol said:
a privilege to start, but once they are in the system they are due due process. Trump has repeatedly circumvented that due process. to such a point the Supreme Court has had to get involved.

a latino citizen's rights don't stop because another latino is still here on privilege. you dodged it earlier, but your skin color based profiling is going to have a 60% miss rate. and applies to way too big of a chunk of the population for me to be comfortable with.
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as a privilege, is administration of that privilege similar to how other privileges are administrated (say driving a car)?
 
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#28,221
#28,221
LouderVol said:
eye witnesses are the worst form of evidence. but the situation you described is a long way from what ICE is doing.

unless you are trying to push some BS that there are some eye witnesses to the illegal border crossing who are giving a good enough description to distinguish one latino to another, for every ICE arrest/detention.

No, I believe its a reason to push back on the government overstepping its bounds. I have never said to stop, or even reduce, what ICE is doing. my resistance has always been the HOW of it.

you won't find me complaining about ICE grabbing up people with deportation orders from 7 years ago. you won't find me complaining about that pregnant lady getting arrested/hasteled for interfering.

you seem to think the presence of illegals gives the feds carte blanche to do whatever they want.
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So no one should be detained ever because eye witnesses and DNA can be wrong?

You’re just arguing for the sake of it. Even you don’t believe this stupidity you’re saying.

You’re absolutely complaining about ice grabbing people with deportation orders. You’re telling me if ICE had such an order but the person didn’t have an ID on them, ICE couldn’t detain them.

That’s the topic.
 
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#28,222
#28,222
McDad said:
as a privilege, is administration of that privilege similar to how other privileges are administrated (say driving a car)?
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licensed, restricted, and taxed on public land, but none of their business on private land? not sure how that helps your argument, but sure.
 
#28,223
#28,223
LouderVol said:
licensed, restricted, and taxed on public land, but none of their business on private land? not sure how that helps your argument, but sure.
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In that administration, you do, or do not, consent to presenting your license, registration, and proof of insurance at LEO checkpoints set up on the road?
 
#28,224
#28,224
Vol8188 said:
So no one should be detained ever because eye witnesses and DNA can be wrong?

You’re just arguing for the sake of it. Even you don’t believe this stupidity you’re saying.

You’re absolutely complaining about ice grabbing people with deportation orders. You’re telling me if ICE had such an order but the person didn’t have an ID on them, ICE couldn’t detain them.

That’s the topic.
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where did I say anything of the sort? That is something you made up because you can't comprehend the distinctions I hold.

I have said repeatedly if ICE has an order or a warrant I am not going to complain. I have just pointed out that most of their actions are not backed by either.

most of the time they find out someone had a deportation order AFTER they were otherwise detained. so that can't even be used as justification. I am old enough to remember people complaining about the left investigating Trump to find what crimes he is guilty of. sorry, but not surprised, that so many have changed.

once we accept any part of the government using loose justifications to do bad actions, the rest of the government will find ways to manipulate it later. this ICE power trip is just an extension of the power grabs from Covid, which were a power grab extension from the patriot act, which was an extension of some other power grab from before I was born.
 
#28,225
#28,225
LouderVol said:
a privilege to start, but once they are in the system they are due due process. Trump has repeatedly circumvented that due process. to such a point the Supreme Court has had to get involved.

a latino citizen's rights don't stop because another latino is still here on privilege. you dodged it earlier, but your skin color based profiling is going to have a 60% miss rate. and applies to way too big of a chunk of the population for me to be comfortable with.
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So, ICE talks to a group of Latinos. One can barely speak broken English. Most speak fluent English with SoCal Hispanic neighborhood inflections and slang. One speaks fluent English with a S GA southern accent.

Maybe they ask for documentation from the group. They all tell them to get bent. Who do you think they will claim probable cause to detain? If they claim probable cause to detain all of them, who do you think most likely to hold up in court? ("Your honor, do I sound like I just got here? Why would they assume I am an illegal immigrant?")


You seem to be claiming that they will use MERELY racial profiling thus will miss on 60%, with no statistics or proof that they detain ALL Hispanics. When in actuality, they are FAR MORE likely to be trained on nuanced profiling that would make their hit rate much better.
 
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