The Deportation of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia

#1,301
#1,301
C-south said:
Had you supposed to have been deported years prior but decided to live on a prayer from some inept judge only to eventually meet the reality of the situation and then cry about it?
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So in your mind, court orders are meaningless.

Rule of Law must irritate you endlessly.
 
#1,303
#1,303
MontyPython said:
I decided to take the 50 mile jaunt on my yacht from West Palm Beach to go fishing for wahoo near Bimini, Bahamas. Left in the morning and planned to return late afternoon. As my craft makes 35 knots in good seas, we're talking an 1.5 hour trip each way. While fishing the reefs of Bimini, one of my engines stalls and I can't restart it. I putt into Bimini harbor for repairs. Bahamian Coast Guard escorts me into port. Tie up my craft at the dock. Coast Guard members arrive, question me and ask for my passport. Don't have one. Never had one. Bahamian Coast Guard arrests me. Takes me into custody. Puts me on a plane and flies me back to the US without a hearing or any legal proceeding. Well at least I'm going back to the good old US of A. Not exactly. The Bahamian plane arrives in Colorado instead of Florida. Florence, Colorado to be exact. I'm put in shackles and escorted from the plane to the US Supermax prison in Florence and thrown in a cell. Yet, I've committed no crime other than being in the Bahamas without a passport and I have no criminal record. I sit in prison for months. My wife and children are prohibited from ever visiting me. I remain a prisoner in my home country of the United States without ever having been charged with a crime.

Absurd story right?

Yet its basis is precisely what has happened to Mr. Garcia. A man whose only crime was to be in our country without proper documentation. And now he rots in a prison in El Salvador.

No matter if Garcia is an MS13 member, beat his wife, transported folks across state lines, failed to put the toilet seat down for his wife, whatever... Garcia deserves legal process. He's been denied Habeas Corpus.

Our country is responsible for this mess and has already admitted that its deportation of Garcia was an "administrative error".

This situation stinks to high heaven and must be fixed. We broke it, we need to fix it.
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You’ve got issues.
 
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#1,304
#1,304
MontyPython said:
So in your mind, court orders are meaningless.

Rule of Law must irritate you endlessly.
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So the court hearings he had before telling him he could be picked up at any time...wasn't due process....
If you wanna complaint about el slavdaor fine...bring him back..verify it safe to send him back to ES and deport his ass again
..quit wanting to keep trash and criminals among the regular population..
 
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#1,306
#1,306
I'll ask again. Can someone post a link to the order against deporting him to El Salvador? The only one that I've seen linked to bars against deporting him to Honduras. No one has been able to provide anything for ES.
 
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#1,307
#1,307
MontyPython said:
I decided to take the 50 mile jaunt on my yacht from West Palm Beach to go fishing for wahoo near Bimini, Bahamas. Left in the morning and planned to return late afternoon. As my craft makes 35 knots in good seas, we're talking an 1.5 hour trip each way. While fishing the reefs of Bimini, one of my engines stalls and I can't restart it. I putt into Bimini harbor for repairs. Bahamian Coast Guard escorts me into port. Tie up my craft at the dock. Coast Guard members arrive, question me and ask for my passport. Don't have one. Never had one. Bahamian Coast Guard arrests me. Takes me into custody. Puts me on a plane and flies me back to the US without a hearing or any legal proceeding. Well at least I'm going back to the good old US of A. Not exactly. The Bahamian plane arrives in Colorado instead of Florida. Florence, Colorado to be exact. I'm put in shackles and escorted from the plane to the US Supermax prison in Florence and thrown in a cell. Yet, I've committed no crime other than being in the Bahamas without a passport and I have no criminal record. I sit in prison for months. My wife and children are prohibited from ever visiting me. I remain a prisoner in my home country of the United States without ever having been charged with a crime.

Absurd story right?

Yet its basis is precisely what has happened to Mr. Garcia. A man whose only crime was to be in our country without proper documentation. And now he rots in a prison in El Salvador.

No matter if Garcia is an MS13 member, beat his wife, transported folks across state lines, failed to put the toilet seat down for his wife, whatever... Garcia deserves legal process. He's been denied Habeas Corpus.

Our country is responsible for this mess and has already admitted that its deportation of Garcia was an "administrative error".

This situation stinks to high heaven and must be fixed. We broke it, we need to fix it.
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Thanks for enlightening.
Sounds like in the same situation I need to use my one engine to get into international waters as close to the US and have our coast guard pick me up…..or know if I’m headed to the Bahamas (leaving the US) to get a passport
 
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#1,308
#1,308
Wireless1 said:
Thanks for enlightening.
Sounds like in the same situation I need to use my one engine to get into international waters as close to the US and have our coast guard pick me up…..or know if I’m headed to the Bahamas (leaving the US) to get a passport
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Also, don't sneak into the Bahamas illegally, low-key stay in the Bahamas for years while no-showing deportation/immigration process, hang out with gangs, traffick other illegals through the country, get married while evading deportation, beat the **** out of your wife several times, etc...

Other than that, it's completely analogous to breaking down on their border and immediately asking for help getting home.
 
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#1,313
#1,313
MontyPython said:
Mr. Garcia was tried and convicted of what crime exactly?
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He wasn't deported for having committed a crime.

In reading the recent court orders, it appears that in 2019, Garcia was "removable", but he applied for, and was granted, leave from being deported to El Salvador due to issues between his family and a local gang there. The IJ order in 2019 only barred his deportation from El Salvador, not his deportation from the US to any other country.

Where the US screwed up is apparently not in the deportation, but in the destination. That is where the habeas corpus issues arise. We shouldn't have sent him to El Salvador when there was a lawful, final order that he not be deported there.

I know you won't like this post, but I do encourage you to Google the various court documents from this year. They are available online via a Google search. They detail facts found at various points of this process; details that are often not reported in the news stories about Garcia's deportation. Some of those omitted details are important, such as Garcia conceding his eligibility to be deported at his 2019 hearing.

I know these details are unlikely to change your opinion about this deportation, but at least it will be informative about the actual facts regarding the deportation.
 
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#1,315
#1,315
Ritzwatch said:
He wasn't deported for having committed a crime.

In reading the recent court orders, it appears that in 2019, Garcia was "removable", but he applied for, and was granted, leave from being deported to El Salvador due to issues between his family and a local gang there. The IJ order in 2019 only barred his deportation from El Salvador, not his deportation from the US to any other country.

Where the US screwed up is apparently not in the deportation, but in the destination. That is where the habeas corpus issues arise. We shouldn't have sent him to El Salvador when there was a lawful, final order that he not be deported there.

I know you won't like this post, but I do encourage you to Google the various court documents from this year. They are available online via a Google search. They detail facts found at various points of this process; details that are often not reported in the news stories about Garcia's deportation. Some of those omitted details are important, such as Garcia conceding his eligibility to be deported at his 2019 hearing.

I know these details are unlikely to change your opinion about this deportation, but at least it will be informative about the actual facts regarding the deportation.
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Familiar with all you posted. Doesn't actually change a thing now does it?
 
#1,316
#1,316
MontyPython said:
Familiar with all you posted. Doesn't actually change a thing now does it?
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Perhaps I misunderstood you. I thought you were indicating that KAG needed to have been convicted of a crime to be deported, or that he was not removable otherwise.
As for not changing a thing, I don't think it does. He was eligible to be deported. He got deported. He should not have been sent to El Salvador while that final order from the IJ was in effect. As KAG's attorneys stated in their filing, "the government could have chosen to remove Mr. Abrego Garcia to any other country on earth...."
Surprisingly, with an entire world to deport the man to, the government screwed that up.
 
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#1,318
#1,318
Ritzwatch said:
Perhaps I misunderstood you. I thought you were indicating that KAG needed to have been convicted of a crime to be deported, or that he was not removable otherwise.
As for not changing a thing, I don't think it does. He was eligible to be deported. He got deported. He should not have been sent to El Salvador while that final order from the IJ was in effect. As KAG's attorneys stated in their filing, "the government could have chosen to remove Mr. Abrego Garcia to any other country on earth...."
Surprisingly, with an entire world to deport the man to, the government screwed that up.
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This. If someone wants to throw shade regarding KAG shouldn't have been sent to ES then it's legit. Beyond that the drama gets pretty lean. It's why KAG's story actually correlates so poorly with the "broke down in the Bahamas"* story.

*If that's not a Jimmy Buffet song it should be.
 
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#1,320
#1,320
Ritzwatch said:
He wasn't deported for having committed a crime.

In reading the recent court orders, it appears that in 2019, Garcia was "removable", but he applied for, and was granted, leave from being deported to El Salvador due to issues between his family and a local gang there. The IJ order in 2019 only barred his deportation from El Salvador, not his deportation from the US to any other country.

Where the US screwed up is apparently not in the deportation, but in the destination. That is where the habeas corpus issues arise. We shouldn't have sent him to El Salvador when there was a lawful, final order that he not be deported there.

I know you won't like this post, but I do encourage you to Google the various court documents from this year. They are available online via a Google search. They detail facts found at various points of this process; details that are often not reported in the news stories about Garcia's deportation. Some of those omitted details are important, such as Garcia conceding his eligibility to be deported at his 2019 hearing.

I know these details are unlikely to change your opinion about this deportation, but at least it will be informative about the actual facts regarding the deportation.
Click to expand...
Reading the court docs, the only leave from deportation was to Honduras Guatemala.
 
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#1,322
#1,322
hndog609 said:
This. If someone wants to throw shade regarding KAG shouldn't have been sent to ES then it's legit. Beyond that the drama gets pretty lean. It's why KAG's story actually correlates so poorly with the "broke down in the Bahamas"* story.

*If that's not a Jimmy Buffet song it should be.
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How about "Send lawyers, guns and money"?
 
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#1,323
#1,323
#1,324
#1,324
whodeycin85 said:
I think that is the clerical error that the Admin admitted to....that's a court issue not a Trump issue
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I'll admit it may have been an error in the original document, but if the original document doesn't say that you can't deport to ES, then it doesn't say you can't deport to ES.

(I'm on record stating that they need to hold an immigration trial, get him deported under immigration law--as opposed to AEA since he's not from Venezuela--and ask the president of ES to let him out of prison unless they have a reason to keep him there; but as far as the USA is concerned he doesn't need to be imprisoned under the AEA.)
 
#1,325
#1,325
Orange_Crush said:
Reading the court docs, the only leave from deportation was to Honduras Guatemala.
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Thanks for the edit, I was going blind trying to find the reference to Honduras. That is a good catch.

So, what I think happened is this: Most of these court orders are template orders that set forth the applicable law and basically allow for judges (clerks) to fill in names of parties, countries, etc. Most of the findings of fact are fill in the blank forms also.

In this instance, the Procedural History discusses El Salvador, The testimonial evidence discusses his being a native of El Salvador, and his fear of returning there. I don't have a copy of the filed Withholding of Removal Petition itself, but I am sure it references El Salvador, not Guatemala.

I suspect the "Guatemala" language in the order was simply sloppy draftmanship by the IJ or his clerk, where the last drafted order wasn't edited to change the country to El Salvador. That type of error, a "scrivener's error" is unlikely to prevail legally, especially when the actual "Order" on the last page "Granted" the application, which likely referenced El Salvador.

It is also worth noting that in the Government briefs in latter litigation, the Government has conceded that there was a valid withholding of removal to El Salvador, so no one else has contested the country to which he should not have been removed (much like Garcia himself conceded he was removeable under US law, which removes the relevance of the "deportation" of a "Maryland Dad" argument.)

Edit: Just saw your edited portions of the order. Keep on going down to the "Order" on the last page, it "grants" the application for withholding, which, again, I think was applied as to El Salvador. You did make a good catch on the Guatemala stuff though, most folks wouldn't have caught that (including the clerk/judge who drafted it and the attorneys who received it.)
 
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