Trump Ignores the Courts

[LSU-SIU]

Only the the Supreme court thinks he should be brought back to determine what to do with him. If you don't think this is a PR nightmare, you are in the minority.

They think he should be given due process under immigration law so the process will continue there, they would like him to come back but its mostly moot at this point.... as there is no real controversy with this one.

 

[LSU-SIU]

He was sent there illegally according to the SC. It is our problem if our gov't sent him there illegally

It is debatable whether we can get El Salvador to give him back. I think we could tell them that we want him back but I don't think the Trump administration is doing that. Admittedly that is speculation on my part and not fact

No, what the Supreme Court is saying is the government thought he was incorrectly sent there, which would be in violation of the order. The issue is, he was not sent there via the immigration process, he was deported via AEA.

I think we could tell them that we want him back but I don't think the Trump administration is doing that.

Why would any sane person ask for him back, there is no controversy... he's illegal.

> What do you think the controversy is at this point? <

 

[jmacvols1]

 

[jmacvols1]

 

[hog88]

Why is he in a prison in El Salvador? Why isn't he free?

That would be a question for the El Salvadorian justice system, the guy is a citizen of that country.

 

[Sea Ray]

You should mount an operation to go get him and smuggle him back.

I'm going to let our judicial system handle it. Among other things, I'm sure his family in Maryland will be awarded multimillions for this error. Their life will improve immensely

 

[hog88]

He was sent there illegally according to the SC. It is our problem if our gov't sent him there illegally

It is debatable whether we can get El Salvador to give him back. I think we could tell them that we want him back but I don't think the Trump administration is doing that. Admittedly that is speculation on my part and not fact

He's a citizen of El Salvador, what if they say no?

 

[LSU-SIU]

I'm going to let our judicial system handle it. Among other things, I'm sure his family in Maryland will be awarded multimillions for this error. Their life will improve immensely

So, he isn't illegal? His family is not claiming that and he hasn't claimed that from what we can tell. What are they suing for and how are they suing for these "multi-millions"?

 

[hog88]

I'm going to let our judicial system handle it. Among other things, I'm sure his family in Maryland will be awarded multimillions for this error. Their life will improve immensely

Very doubful.

 

[Sea Ray]

So, he isn't illegal? His family is not claiming that and he hasn't claimed that from what we can tell. What are they suing for and how are they suing for these "multi-millions"?

He was illegally sent to El Salvador. That makes our country liable for damages, particularly if he dies there

 

[LSU-SIU]

He was illegally sent to El Salvador. That makes our country liable for damages, particularly if he dies there

That isn't how it works.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I quoted earlier what a withholding order is. It means he cannot be deported. The SC said that that order was still valid, hence deporting him anywhere was not legal. That's why they're saying that he should be brought back

What exactly are you arguing? That it was illegal to send him to El Salvador but they could send him to Mexico?

It said that he cannot be deported TO EL SALVADOR. That != "he is here legally".

yes. Did you read your quote? There was no period after "can't deport". There was a continuation of the thought of where you can't deport to.

 

[LouderVol]

No, they are saying he can proceed under the existing immigration case, but imo its moot. As far as his deportation, he could have filed a habeas, see trump v J.G.G.

wow finally admitting that the SC said they couldn't jump back and forth between immigration and AEA.

progress, even if its unintentional.

 

[LouderVol]

That is the whole system. Basically, what you are doing is explaining post after post that you don't understand the basics.

None of this involves criminal procedure.

no the whole system is not to start a case under immigration and then end under AEA. you have even admitted this, but you are just too stubborn to see the implications. it makes no sense even in your made up world of AEA being a war powers thing free of any oversite, because that still isn't immigration.

AEA is criminal. I have directly quoted the law, twice, and the supreme court. you have offered nothing but unsupported opinions.

 

[LouderVol]

It said that he cannot be deported TO EL SALVADOR. That != "he is here legally".

yes. Did you read your quote? There was no period after "can't deport". There was a continuation of the thought of where you can't deport to.

the damages would be the fact that the government broke its own stance.

"can't be deported to El Salvador" + deported to El Salvador = problem.

there is no debate on if its a problem. the only debate is how to fix it.

 

[LSU-SIU]

wow finally admitting that the SC said they couldn't jump back and forth between immigration and AEA.

progress, even if its unintentional.

No. The immigration process is separate from the statutory AEA process. They have nothing to do with each other. He was deported via AEA, the Supreme Court is simply saying he can proceed under immigration law but I guess I don't see the point as he apparently admitted he was illegal.

 

[LSU-SIU]

no the whole system is not to start a case under immigration and then end under AEA. you have even admitted this, but you are just too stubborn to see the implications. it makes no sense even in your made up world of AEA being a war powers thing free of any oversite, because that still isn't immigration.

AEA is criminal. I have directly quoted the law, twice, and the supreme court. you have offered nothing but unsupported opinions.

No, you did not quote from the law as to section 1, you took Section 2 from the law of the process if a court had criminal jurisdiction, no court has criminal jurisdiction. He was deported under Section 1.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title50/chapter3&edition=prelim (see 23 which would pertain to enemies in criminal jurisdiction)

Whenever there is a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government, and the President makes public proclamation of the event, all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being of the age of fourteen years and upward, who shall be within the United States and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured, and removed as alien enemies. The President is authorized in any such event, by his proclamation thereof, or other public act, to direct the conduct to be observed on the part of the United States, toward the aliens who become so liable; the manner and degree of the restraint to which they shall be subject and in what cases, and upon what security their residence shall be permitted, and to provide for the removal of those who, not being permitted to reside within the United States, refuse or neglect to depart therefrom; and to establish any other regulations which are found necessary in the premises and for the public safety.

After any such proclamation has been made, the several courts of the United States, having criminal jurisdiction, and the several justices and judges of the courts of the United States, are authorized and it shall be their duty, upon complaint against any alien enemy resident and at large within such jurisdiction or district, to the danger of the public peace or safety, and contrary to the tenor or intent of such proclamation, or other regulations which the President may have established, to cause such alien to be duly apprehended and conveyed before such court, judge, or justice; and after a full examination and hearing on such complaint, and sufficient cause appearing, to order such alien to be removed out of the territory of the United States, or to give sureties for his good behavior, or to be otherwise restrained, conformably to the proclamation or regulations established as aforesaid, and to imprison, or otherwise secure such alien, until the order which may be so made shall be performed.

In this case, there is no criminal jurisdiction as the courts were not needed to detain.

 

[Sea Ray]

That isn't how it works.

I hope you’re right but remember this conversation when we hear about “a settlement “. George Floyd’s family got $27 million from the city of Minneapolis

 

[LSU-SIU]

I hope you’re right but remember this conversation when we hear about “a settlement “. George Floyd’s family got $27 million from the city of Minneapolis

Oh, I can't say a future administration couldn't try and to pay someone. As far as actually having a controversy, there really isn't one. He's an illegal and he was detained and ejected. I guess people are mad about the process or lack of, but at the end of the day there is no controversy. The U.S. could bomb the prison the guy is in right now.

 

[Sea Ray]

Oh, I can't say a future administration couldn't try and to pay someone. As far as actually having a controversy, there really isn't one. He's an illegal and he was detained and ejected. I guess people are mad about the process or lack of, but at the end of the day there is no controversy. The U.S. could bomb the prison the guy is in right now.

They will win a court case and the court will order a multimillion dollar verdict. They will walk away multimillionaires while you and I slog away to work every day. And it’ll be our tax dollars that pay them off because Trump overstepped his authority here. This isn’t the way to rid our country of scumbags. We need to do it legally

 

[Ashevolle]

Nobody is claiming they filed a habeas in this individual's action, but you can go look it up yourself.

Completely nonrepsonsive to my point and question to you. You said he could have. I'm asking you how he could have or could presently file a habeas corpus petition given the adminstratiin's preventing that from bring any real possibility.

 

[LSU-SIU]

They will win a court case and the court will order a multimillion dollar verdict. They will walk away multimillionaires while you and I slog away to work every day. And it’ll be our tax dollars that pay them off because Trump overstepped his authority here. This isn’t the way to rid our country of scumbags. We need to do it legally

It was done legally. You just don't like the legal process used.

And the rest, its like you posting how ignorant of how this works.

Literally the U.S. could drop a bomb on his head and he has no real recourse.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Completely nonrepsonsive to my point and question to you. You said he could have. I'm asking you how he could have or could presently file a habeas corpus petition given the adminstratiin's preventing that from bring any real possibility.

The court's were closed? I don't know what you are getting at here, others filed a habeas.... they just went judge shopping. You don't like the process, but I am simply telling you what the process is.

You are making I guess a claim that the clerk of courts are refusing to docket a habeas? Than the correct course would be to file a mandamus to force the clerk to file the habeas, I would imagine.

 

[LouderVol]

No, you did not quote from the law as to section 1,

Section 1 applies to agents of a foreign government.

"That whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States, by any foreign nation or government"

criminals, cartels, and terrorists are almost explicitly not acting on behalf of a foreign nation or government.

section 2, the part I quoted, mentions the ability to deport ANYONE considered a threat to the US or its people. which would apply here.
"authorized upon complaint, against any alien or alien enemies, as aforesaid, who shall be resident and at large within such jurisdiction or district, to the danger of the public peace or safety,"

I am sorry, what are you lying about again?

 

[LSU-SIU]

I am sorry, what are you lying about again?

I never said the proclamation would stand up to judicial review, but nobody had a problem with it after WW2. Generally, the courts do and should stay out of it until the emergency has passed (imo), but no... I don't claim that the Proclamation will completely stand up endlessly.... but that irrelevant at this point... you have to bring a very solid case.

Either way, this guy was being deported, most likely he was going to El Salvador either way, but... (immaterial as far as I am concern)

There really is no controversy as to this guy, if someone can use it as spring board than I guess that is okay. Not sure what you want to hear.