Trump Ignores the Courts

[LSU-SIU]

AEA is not an immigration law. its a criminal law.

I would say its a codification of a war power.

 

[LouderVol]

The way I understand it a judge ordered his deportation a year or so ago with the stipulation he couldn't be deported to El Salvador because the gang there didn't like the gang he was in and this put him in possible physical harm. So they want him brought back and deported to another country.

I would think the courts would be satisfied if the admin figured out where he could be sent, and sent him there from El Salvador. the only reason to bring him back to wait while that is being figured out.

 

[LouderVol]

I would say its a codification of a war power.

that requires a judge with criminal jurisdiction, to make a ruling that meets the standards of criminal cases, and ends with a criminal charge.

if it walks, quacks, and swims like a duck, its a duck. no matter how much you want to deflect.

it being a war power doesn't mean its immune to anything, especially the requirements spelt out in the law itself.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I would think the courts would be satisfied if the admin figured out where he could be sent, and sent him there from El Salvador. the only reason to bring him back to wait while that is being figured out.

As far as that individual, there is nothing that can be done unless the executive branch wants it to happen, the Supreme court has said the underlying process could continue.... confusing to me why it would matter but there is that.

The U.S. is saying they have no more business to attend to in these matters as they no longer have custody.

 

[LSU-SIU]

that requires a judge with criminal jurisdiction, to make a ruling that meets the standards of criminal cases, and ends with a criminal charge.

if it walks, quacks, and swims like a duck, its a duck. no matter how much you want to deflect.

it being a war power doesn't mean its immune to anything, especially the requirements spelt out in the law itself.

It doesn't, its codification of war powers.

who is deflecting, I'm just telling you what it is.

Generally speaking, the two cases are over as to the real merits or remedy unless the executive branch decides to change course.

 

[LouderVol]

It doesn't, its codification of war powers.

which means what to you? war powers have limitations, especially when they are defined in a law, like AEA.

I know its too much to ask you to actually explain what it means in reality, so lets start with what it means to you.

 

[LSU-SIU]

which means what to you? war powers have limitations, especially when they are defined in a law, like AEA.

I know its too much to ask you to actually explain what it means in reality, so lets start with what it means to you.

You are saying the person needs to be convicted of a criminal offense I guess by a juror... to be honest, I don't know what you don't understand at this point. If that is your view, its an incorrect view.

 

[LouderVol]

You are saying the person needs to be convicted of a criminal offense I guess by a juror... to be honest, I don't know what you don't understand at this point. If that is your view, its an incorrect view.

nope. its straight from the law itself.

"And be it further enacted, That after any proclamation shall be made as aforesaid, it shall be the duty of the several courts of the United States, and of each state, having criminal jurisdiction, and of the several judges and justices of the courts of the United States, and they shall be, and are hereby respectively, authorized upon complaint, against any alien or alien enemies, as aforesaid, who shall be resident and at large within such jurisdiction or district, to the danger of the public peace or safety, and contrary to the tenor or intent of such proclamation, or other regulations which the President of the United States shall and may establish in the premises, to cause such alien or aliens to be duly apprehended and convened before such court, judge or justice; and after a full examination and hearing on such complaint. and sufficient cause therefor appearing, shall and may order such alien or aliens to be removed out of the territory of the United States"

The Alien Enemies Act of 1798

NAFSA: Association of International Educators is the world's largest nonprofit association dedicated to international education and exchange.

www.nafsa.org

 

[hog88]

I would think the courts would be satisfied if the admin figured out where he could be sent, and sent him there from El Salvador. the only reason to bring him back to wait while that is being figured out.

I wonder if Russia would take him? I hear they are in need of young men.

 

[GroverCleveland]

got to love the government efficiency. but personally I find it more palatable than the executive branch just picking and choosing what laws and procedures they follow at will.

this is a huge matter of due process. we can not give the government precedence to ignore due process, even if its for an illegal citizen. that is not something they are going to honor and hold to. its just the next step, and Trump has already admitted to wanting to do it to citizens as well.

Agree with the proposition about any administration picking and choosing the laws they follow. The last one was as notorious about it as the current one is accused of being.

I'm not as up on immigration law. However, it seems any administration has wide latitude in declaring non-citizens deportable under regulations and then acting upon it. But admit I do not know for certain.

 

[LSU-SIU]

nope. its straight from the law itself.

"And be it further enacted, That after any proclamation shall be made as aforesaid, it shall be the duty of the several courts of the United States, and of each state, having criminal jurisdiction, and of the several judges and justices of the courts of the United States, and they shall be, and are hereby respectively, authorized upon complaint, against any alien or alien enemies, as aforesaid, who shall be resident and at large within such jurisdiction or district, to the danger of the public peace or safety, and contrary to the tenor or intent of such proclamation, or other regulations which the President of the United States shall and may establish in the premises, to cause such alien or aliens to be duly apprehended and convened before such court, judge or justice; and after a full examination and hearing on such complaint. and sufficient cause therefor appearing, shall and may order such alien or aliens to be removed out of the territory of the United States"

The Alien Enemies Act of 1798

NAFSA: Association of International Educators is the world's largest nonprofit association dedicated to international education and exchange.

www.nafsa.org

The courts don't have criminal jurisdiction as no criminal complaint was filed.

 

[GroverCleveland]

When exactly was he tried under immigration law after 2019?
View attachment 735915
View attachment 735916

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf

Oops. Wonder if El Salvador is willing to give up one of their citizens because a judge in Maryland is pissed about him not being here?

 

[LouderVol]

Agree with the proposition about any administration picking and choosing the laws they follow. The last one was as notorious about it as the current one is accused of being.

I'm not as up on immigration law. However, it seems any administration has wide latitude in declaring non-citizens deportable under regulations and then acting upon it. But admit I do not know for certain.

they have wide latitude in the justifications behind the deportation. but it still requires a process, which means going in front of a judge, who makes the ruling. then there is an appeals process, after which the judge issues the final deportation order.

depending on which of many cases you want to refer to, the admin has short circuited various parts of that process. up to and including changing which law they are being deported under, going from the non-criminal immigration laws, to the criminal Alien Enemy law. the fact that they are finding people "guilty" under a non-criminal law, and then carrying out sentencing based on a criminal law is deeply disturbing.

 

[GroverCleveland]

I can think of more preferable ways to rack up frequent flier miles

This raises a question for the leftists on VolNation: If I want to fly somewhere at Uncle Sam's (yours btw) expense, if I contrive to get deported, when I'm ready to come back would you all raise hell with the government to bring me back?

 

[GroverCleveland]

I would think the courts would be satisfied if the admin figured out where he could be sent, and sent him there from El Salvador. the only reason to bring him back to wait while that is being figured out.

I think the judge should do the rightful thing and pay out of his own pocket for the movement from one country to another. If he feels that strongly about it...

 

[LSU-SIU]

This raises a question for the leftists on VolNation: If I want to fly somewhere at Uncle Sam's (yours btw) expense, if I contrive to get deported, when I'm ready to come back would you all raise hell with the government to bring me back?

My question from the start is, if an American kept getting deported, how would he get remedy? But I think a remedy can be found, its just not necessarily a clear one at this point.

 

[LouderVol]

The courts don't have criminal jurisdiction as no criminal complaint was filed.

which is the effing problem. like I said you need to pick a lane. is it a non-criminal immigration case, or is it a criminal AEA case. and its not just me saying it, its the Supreme Court saying it.

the guys were arrested, and tried, under immigration laws, which are not criminal. then thrown out under the Alien Enemy Act which is criminal.

 

[BeardedVol]

Oops. Wonder if El Salvador is willing to give up one of their citizens because a judge in Maryland is pissed about him not being here?

Right, because that is of course what the crux of the issue at hand is.

 

[LSU-SIU]

which is the effing problem. like I said you need to pick a lane. is it a non-criminal immigration case, or is it a criminal AEA case. and its not just me saying it, its the Supreme Court saying it.

the guys were arrested, and tried, under immigration laws, which are not criminal. then thrown out under the Alien Enemy Act which is criminal.

Its not picking a lane, if the person was under the criminal jurisdiction of the court, the law is requiring the administration to use those procedures in those courts. In these cases, the illegals were never under the jurisdiction of a criminal court.

the guys were arrested, and tried, under immigration laws, which are not criminal. then thrown out under the Alien Enemy Act which is criminal.

You're basically confirming that they could be ejected by the AEA as no criminal court has or had jurisdiction. AEA doesn't seem criminal to me, it a war power.

its not just me saying it, its the Supreme Court saying it.

See above. The one individual, I guess they'll let the process play out... but it makes no sense as the only question was where he would be deported to under that case, he was ordered for deportation.

 

[LouderVol]

Its not picking a lane, if the person was under the criminal jurisdiction of the court, the law is requiring the administration to use those procedures in those courts. In these cases, the illegals were never under the jurisdiction of a criminal court.



You're basically confirming that they could be ejected by the AEA as no criminal court has or had jurisdiction. AEA doesn't seem criminal to me, it a war power.



See above. The one individual, I guess they'll let the process play out... but it makes no sense as the only question was where he would be deported to under that case, he was ordered for deportation.

AEA is criminal, I literally just quoted it. which is far more than you have done. the law literally requires a criminal judge and a criminal case.

the AEA process would be someone getting arrested/detained under AEA. then tried under AEA. then punished under AEA.

the AEA process is NOT someone being arrested/detained under immigration, then tried under immigration. then punished under AEA. <---this should never be acceptable. its banana republic bs.

if you want to deport someone under immigration laws, deport them under immigration laws. if you want to deport someone as an Alien Enemy, deport them under the Alien Enemy Act. the Admin doesn't get to pick and choose.

 

[jmacvols1]

lol lol lol

Loading…

www.reuters.com

 

[LSU-SIU]

AEA is criminal, I literally just quoted it. which is far more than you have done. the law literally requires a criminal judge and a criminal case.

the AEA process would be someone getting arrested/detained under AEA. then tried under AEA. then punished under AEA.

the AEA process is NOT someone being arrested/detained under immigration, then tried under immigration. then punished under AEA. <---this should never be acceptable. its banana republic bs.

if you want to deport someone under immigration laws, deport them under immigration laws. if you want to deport someone as an Alien Enemy, deport them under the Alien Enemy Act. the Admin doesn't get to pick and choose.

No, you did not quote it... that section is if the there a criminal complaint in which a court has jurisdiction. The people that were picked up and deported were done under Section 1 as no court was needed to obtain their persons.

if you want to deport someone under immigration laws, deport them under immigration laws.

That person was not deported under normal immigration law, they were deported via AEA. Yes they can pick.

 

[Vol423]

lol lol lol

Loading…

www.reuters.com

…and he’s burning all those fossil fuels on a meaningless flight down to El Salvador.

 

[LouderVol]

No, you did not quote it... that section is if the there a criminal complaint in which a court has jurisdiction. The people that were picked up and deported were done under Section 1 as no court was needed to obtain their persons.



That person was not deported under normal immigration law, they were deported via AEA. Yes they can pick.

Section 1 applies to agents of a foreign government.

"That whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States, by any foreign nation or government"

criminals, cartels, and terrorists are almost explicitly not acting on behalf of a foreign nation or government.

section 2, the part I quoted, mentions the ability to deport ANYONE considered a threat to the US or its people. which would apply here.
"authorized upon complaint, against any alien or alien enemies, as aforesaid, who shall be resident and at large within such jurisdiction or district, to the danger of the public peace or safety,"

 

[lawgator1]

Section 1 applies to agents of a foreign government.

"That whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States, by any foreign nation or government"

criminals, cartels, and terrorists are almost explicitly not acting on behalf of a foreign nation or government.

section 2, the part I quoted, mentions the ability to deport ANYONE considered a threat to the US or its people. which would apply here.
"authorized upon complaint, against any alien or alien enemies, as aforesaid, who shall be resident and at large within such jurisdiction or district, to the danger of the public peace or safety,"

Ok.

Supreme Court says they still get process.

Trump refuses to do so.